Abortion: human right?

[Zottistan]

Why not the moment before conception?

I facepalm whenever I read this kind of crap.

Honestly, how ignorant does one have to be in order to be pro-baby murder?

I notice you didn't answer the question. Why not the moment before conception? All the genetic material is there.

[Aquillus]

Yeah, you're right, I am passionate. I am really fucking passionate about this. You want to know why?
Because on July 17th, 2010, I went on my very first date. And I was raped. And impregnated.
And I risked my life to not be pregnant. I swallowed so many pills, and I beat myself so hard I have organ damage.
Because people who believe that "abortion is ethically reprehensible" have taken every single clinic out of my town and within a 2 hour radius.
Because people who believe that "abortion is ethically reprehensible" made it impossible for me to get help.
Because people who believe that "abortion is ethically reprehensible" fucked me over so bad that I was prepared to die rather than give birth.
I was on the verge of homelessness, in high school, I am severely ill, and my family is emotionally abusive.
But, hey, better I die than get an abortion free of judgement.

So when you ask me why I'm passionate about this, when you wonder why I get riled up, I'm going to tell you the same thing over and over and over.
Because people who believe what you believe nearly cost me my life.

I cannot change what those people did, and I will not apologize for behaviors that I have not engaged in. However, I do sympathize (not empathize--I can only imagine what you felt) with your situation. I actually do believe that, in the case of victims such as yourself, abortion is justified even if I am not fully comfortable with it. And human beings make judgements all the time about everything--there's nothing you do ever that is not judged on some level by those around you--so the notion of a judgement-free abortion is both laughable and pitiable.

However, death is never a good thing and it is never better than any other option. I apologize that you seem to believe that I want people who believe that abortion is right to die, as this is simply not the case.

The point that I think you are missing is that by prohibiting abortion, you are causing people to die.

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

which state do you live in? :/

The fucking trash heap that is Tennessee. Get me the hell out.

Oh hey I live like 4 minutes from Tennessee let's hang out and then you can say you hang out with male models

[Jelarais]

All true. Still not a justification for ending a life, especially one that will grow into a fully sentient being.

You can't use potential as an argument.

The argument is that there is no justification for ending a life ever, unless it is in defense of your own. I.e., your life will end if the other does not. The fact that a fetus will grow into a sentient being, and therefore is more precious than most life, is a personal belief, but still has merit.

[Viritica]

The fucking trash heap that is Tennessee. Get me the hell out.

Oh hey I live like 4 minutes from Tennessee let's hang out and then you can say you hang out with male models

Don't be so self-indulgent.

[Jelarais]

I cannot change what those people did, and I will not apologize for behaviors that I have not engaged in. However, I do sympathize (not empathize--I can only imagine what you felt) with your situation. I actually do believe that, in the case of victims such as yourself, abortion is justified even if I am not fully comfortable with it. And human beings make judgements all the time about everything--there's nothing you do ever that is not judged on some level by those around you--so the notion of a judgement-free abortion is both laughable and pitiable.

However, death is never a good thing and it is never better than any other option. I apologize that you seem to believe that I want people who believe that abortion is right to die, as this is simply not the case.

The point that I think you are missing is that by prohibiting abortion, you are causing people to die.

As I stated before, I do not wish to prohibit it. I simply do not believe it is morally right.

[Othelos]

Yes, because she has to consent to it being there in the first place.

The consent is called sex. Actions, consequences, my post to you.

No. Pregnancy is not guaranteed from sex. The only guarantee is that she may become pregnant, so that's what she is consenting to. she is not consenting to 9 months of pregnancy.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Oh hey I live like 4 minutes from Tennessee let's hang out and then you can say you hang out with male models

Don't be so self-indulgent.

Shh, don't ruin their fantasy :3

[Apparatchikstan]

But you do possess enough self-awareness to realize and remember that you might have done something to encourage the condition?
Let me take a moment to clarify something. If sex is forced on you, whether by a stranger, boyfriend gone wrong, or beligerant husband, whatever, then by all means deal with that situation as you see fit. But if you willingly participated in an act that by evolution's design has consequences that reach far past the moment, you do not have my sympathy.

Contraception isn't 100% effective, so even if they do everything right, the woman could still get pregnant.

You conveniently skipped over something.

[Othelos]

The point that I think you are missing is that by prohibiting abortion, you are causing people to die.

As I stated before, I do not wish to prohibit it. I simply do not believe it is morally right.

so you're pro-choice?

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Yes, because she has to consent to it being there in the first place.

The consent is called sex. Actions, consequences, my post to you.

Consent to swimming is not consent to drowning.
Consent to driving is not consent to wrecks.
Consent to walking down the sidewalk is not consent to being hit.
Consent to eating is not consent to choking.
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

it is true that if you swim carelessly, you have a higher chance of drowning.
it is true that if you drive recklessly, you have a higher chance of wrecking.
it is true that if you walk near the road in dark clothes at night, you have a higher chance of being hit.
it is true that if you eat too fast, you have a higher chance of choking.
it is true that if you have unsafe sex, you have a higher chance of becoming pregnant.

But you still can be saved from nearly drowning.
You can still be helped in a wreck.
You can still be patched up if you get hit.
You can still get the Heimlich if you choke.
You can still stop being pregnant.

[Jelarais]

As I stated before, I do not wish to prohibit it. I simply do not believe it is morally right.

so you're pro-choice?

I am pro-choice, yes. I also hope that the mother will choose to carry the pregnancy to term. Can I not do both?

[Othelos]

Contraception isn't 100% effective, so even if they do everything right, the woman could still get pregnant.

You conveniently skipped over something.

even if they have unsafe sex, pregnancy isn't guaranteed. so it's still not consent to pregnancy.

[Shilya]

The consent is called sex. Actions, consequences, my post to you.

No. Pregnancy is not guaranteed from sex. The only guarantee is that she may become pregnant, so that's what she is consenting to. she is not consenting to 9 months of pregnancy.

Nothing is guaranteed. Risks exist. Actions carry risks. If the risks blow in your face, well, it was your action. The greater the risk, the greater your responsibility. The risk for pregnancy from sex is pretty damn large.

She knows that sex can result in pregnancy. Hence she consents to the risk in exchange for sex. Turns out nothing's truly free.

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

If you were raped then you're out of bounds. I'm not referring to rape cases.

I'm only talking about women who can't keep their legs closed when they know they're in a bad situation.

It's just being responsible. I chose to abstain even though it was very difficult because I'm incredible attractive, but I did it and now things are working out perfectly with me and my hot Irish fiance.

good for you. now stop projecting your life choices onto others.

What's your problem?

I'm pointing out that people are in control of their life and destiny.

I "decided ".I was going to have a good life and because of that decision I am.

[Othelos]

so you're pro-choice?

I am pro-choice, yes. I also hope that the mother will choose to carry the pregnancy to term. Can I not do both?

Yep. That's why it's called pro-choice. I don't think anyone wants a woman to get an abortion, but it's still within her rights to.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

The fucking trash heap that is Tennessee. Get me the hell out.

Oh hey I live like 4 minutes from Tennessee let's hang out and then you can say you hang out with male models

I'd rather put my hand in an over tbh

[The Flood]

It's not. They are equally important, that is why neither has the right to kill the other.

So when the fetus will kill the mother, the mother can't kill the fetus? Or are your moral absolutes not-so-rigid after all?

One death > two deaths. It is the lesser of two evils.

[Shilya]

The consent is called sex. Actions, consequences, my post to you.

Consent to swimming is not consent to drowning.
Consent to driving is not consent to wrecks.
Consent to walking down the sidewalk is not consent to being hit.
Consent to eating is not consent to choking.
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

it is true that if you swim carelessly, you have a higher chance of drowning.
it is true that if you drive recklessly, you have a higher chance of wrecking.
it is true that if you walk near the road in dark clothes at night, you have a higher chance of being hit.
it is true that if you eat too fast, you have a higher chance of choking.
it is true that if you have unsafe sex, you have a higher chance of becoming pregnant.

But you still can be saved from nearly drowning.
You can still be helped in a wreck.
You can still be patched up if you get hit.
You can still get the Heimlich if you choke.
You can still stop being pregnant.

That's a lot of lines to sum up "I want other people to deal with the consequences of the risks I knowingly took."

[Aquillus]

The point that I think you are missing is that by prohibiting abortion, you are causing people to die.

As I stated before, I do not wish to prohibit it. I simply do not believe it is morally right.

Ah, yes, I did miss that.

Still, that was not really aimed at you, but just anyone who wants to ban abortion in general, as seems to be the case with a few people around here. Apologies anyway, though.

[Othelos]

good for you. now stop projecting your life choices onto others.

What's your problem?

I'm pointing out that people are in control of their life and destiny.

I "decided ".I was going to have a good life and because of that decision I am.

And other people can decide to have sex before marriage, which is perfectly ok.

[Deutsches Heilige Land]

Oh hey I live like 4 minutes from Tennessee let's hang out and then you can say you hang out with male models

Don't be so self-indulgent.

I don't want to change the subject, but, I'm a pretty amazing guy and I pretty much have everything going for me so don't get angry just because I like to share how great I am.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Yeah, you're right, I am passionate. I am really fucking passionate about this. You want to know why?
Because on July 17th, 2010, I went on my very first date. And I was raped. And impregnated.
And I risked my life to not be pregnant. I swallowed so many pills, and I beat myself so hard I have organ damage.
Because people who believe that "abortion is ethically reprehensible" have taken every single clinic out of my town and within a 2 hour radius.
Because people who believe that "abortion is ethically reprehensible" made it impossible for me to get help.
Because people who believe that "abortion is ethically reprehensible" fucked me over so bad that I was prepared to die rather than give birth.
I was on the verge of homelessness, in high school, I am severely ill, and my family is emotionally abusive.
But, hey, better I die than get an abortion free of judgement.

So when you ask me why I'm passionate about this, when you wonder why I get riled up, I'm going to tell you the same thing over and over and over.
Because people who believe what you believe nearly cost me my life.

If you were raped then you're out of bounds. I'm not referring to rape cases.

I'm only talking about women who can't keep their legs closed when they know they're in a bad situation.

It's just being responsible. I chose to abstain even though it was very difficult because I'm incredible attractive, but I did it and now things are working out perfectly with me and my hot Irish fiance.

congratulations I don't give a fuck what you choose to do with your life.
You don't get to choose what other people do with their bodies.

[Othelos]

Consent to swimming is not consent to drowning.
Consent to driving is not consent to wrecks.
Consent to walking down the sidewalk is not consent to being hit.
Consent to eating is not consent to choking.
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

it is true that if you swim carelessly, you have a higher chance of drowning.
it is true that if you drive recklessly, you have a higher chance of wrecking.
it is true that if you walk near the road in dark clothes at night, you have a higher chance of being hit.
it is true that if you eat too fast, you have a higher chance of choking.
it is true that if you have unsafe sex, you have a higher chance of becoming pregnant.

But you still can be saved from nearly drowning.
You can still be helped in a wreck.
You can still be patched up if you get hit.
You can still get the Heimlich if you choke.
You can still stop being pregnant.

That's a lot of lines to sum up "I want other people to deal with the consequences of the risks I knowingly took."

Other people?

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Consent to swimming is not consent to drowning.
Consent to driving is not consent to wrecks.
Consent to walking down the sidewalk is not consent to being hit.
Consent to eating is not consent to choking.
Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy.

it is true that if you swim carelessly, you have a higher chance of drowning.
it is true that if you drive recklessly, you have a higher chance of wrecking.
it is true that if you walk near the road in dark clothes at night, you have a higher chance of being hit.
it is true that if you eat too fast, you have a higher chance of choking.
it is true that if you have unsafe sex, you have a higher chance of becoming pregnant.

But you still can be saved from nearly drowning.
You can still be helped in a wreck.
You can still be patched up if you get hit.
You can still get the Heimlich if you choke.
You can still stop being pregnant.

That's a lot of lines to sum up "I want other people to deal with the consequences of the risks I knowingly took."

So a person who gets into a wreck should get no medical care?