Advertisement
by Quew » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:59 pm
by Salandriagado » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:08 pm
Quintium wrote:Oh, it's true. Even if climate change itself is a real thing, it's used primarily as a pretext for taxes by governments that are in trouble financially. For most of the past decade, holes in government budgets were filled with environmental taxes. Governments could appear responsible and environmentally friendly and patch up holes in their budgets at the very same time, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that politicians will jump at an opportunity like that.Mefpan wrote:...and some people wonder why I view giving the common rabble the vote with so much unrestrained cynicism.
And what would happen if you selected voters from a smaller pool of people?
- If you selected them by wealth or prestige in society, you'd find that they'd all vote for economically right-wing parties.
- If you selected them by aristocracy or nobility, you'd find that they'd all vote for economically right-wing and socially conservative parties.
- If you selected them by level of education, you'd find that they'd all vote for economically right-wing parties.
by The Re-Frisivisiaing » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:08 pm
Quew wrote:Rule of thumb for NS the NS crowd are more often wrong then right thus when the most say anthropogenic climate change is real we can all rest easy that that it is in fact not real, the down side is the number of times that the people of NS have said that in many more words that the US is doing great, that basically means the US is a hell hole.
Anyway NS is basically opposite land take whatever the majority say and reverse it and you got the truth most of the time.
by Wisconsin9 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:24 pm
Quew wrote:Rule of thumb for NS the NS crowd are more often wrong then right thus when the most say anthropogenic climate change is real we can all rest easy that that it is in fact not real, the down side is the number of times that the people of NS have said that in many more words that the US is doing great, that basically means the US is a hell hole.
Anyway NS is basically opposite land take whatever the majority say and reverse it and you got the truth most of the time.
In NS Oppositeland Climate changes you.
by Xsyne » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:56 pm
Quew wrote:Rule of thumb for NS the NS crowd are more often wrong then right thus when the most say anthropogenic climate change is real we can all rest easy that that it is in fact not real, the down side is the number of times that the people of NS have said that in many more words that the US is doing great, that basically means the US is a hell hole.
Anyway NS is basically opposite land take whatever the majority say and reverse it and you got the truth most of the time.
In NS Oppositeland Climate changes you.
Chernoslavia wrote:Free Soviets wrote:according to both the law library of congress and wikipedia, both automatics and semi-autos that can be easily converted are outright banned in norway.
Source?
by Hollorous » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:17 pm
Xsyne wrote:Quew wrote:Rule of thumb for NS the NS crowd are more often wrong then right thus when the most say anthropogenic climate change is real we can all rest easy that that it is in fact not real, the down side is the number of times that the people of NS have said that in many more words that the US is doing great, that basically means the US is a hell hole.
Anyway NS is basically opposite land take whatever the majority say and reverse it and you got the truth most of the time.
In NS Oppositeland Climate changes you.
Drinking bleach is a bad idea.
by Sociobiology » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:09 pm
Viritica wrote:"The fact of the matter is there is no solution to climate change. The American government cannot solve the problem, because it is a global problem. Liberals say "we need to lead" but the fact of the matter is China, India, Brazil, Russia and any other emerging market does not give two fucks. They will not follow us by adopting expensive alternative energy, they will laugh at us for hurting our own comparative advantage.
The computer models that estimate climate change have been shown to be highly flawed.
The calculus and statistical properties of the models vary significantly, as do the predictions.
Not only so they tend to overestimate they have only been able to explain about 20-40% of the variation in climate to human behavior (that is the R squared tends to be .2 - .4).
Democrats use climate change for a partisan advantage, as do republicans in the denial. However hurting our economy for a faux domestic battle on a global issue is an exercise in stupidity."
by Atlanticatia » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:11 pm
by Sociobiology » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:12 pm
The Serbian Empire wrote:Christiaanistan wrote:Is there any reason that I ought to give a shit instead of just making fun of them? I'd be glad to test my blood against theirs, and let's see who lasts longer in a climatological crisis. It's fucking ignorant as hell to ignore the advice of people who are highly trained to study the subject matter and do it for a living, and if that much of our population really doesn't care, then I have no pity for them at all.
It doesn't matter if it was just a few people, but there's so many of them that they could turn conservative voting if it came to preventing their taxes from going up. People hate higher taxes outside of the tax collectors and wealth redistributionists.
by Constantinopolis » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:30 pm
by Hyfling » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:48 pm
by Hyfling » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:52 pm
Quew wrote:-snip-
by Sociobiology » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:56 pm
Constantinopolis wrote:When a problem is sufficiently slow-acting or subtle, such that most people do not notice its effects worsening from one year to the next, then most people will consider it a non-problem and resent those who raise taxes (or cause some other inconvenience) in order to fix it.
Such problems are simply not going to get solved and we're just going to have to live with their effects. Climate change is one of them.
by Lenciland » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:57 pm
Quintium wrote:Lenciland wrote:Have you ever heard of Bill Gates or the high-tech billionaires? Some of the richest, most educated, most prestigious people in the world and they usually vote very liberal.
The exception that proves the rule. Now, as a general rule: most people who are wealthy will, in any country, vote for the status quo on social matters and to lower taxes.
Those with a higher education will more or less do the same, and the aristocracy (regardless of wealth) will add some social conservatism into the mix.
Karlsreich wrote:And on the fourth day, God created Saturn. And he liked it. So he put a ring on it.
by Sociobiology » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Lenciland wrote:Quintium wrote:
The exception that proves the rule. Now, as a general rule: most people who are wealthy will, in any country, vote for the status quo on social matters and to lower taxes.
Those with a higher education will more or less do the same, and the aristocracy (regardless of wealth) will add some social conservatism into the mix.
How does my example that disproves your claim actually proving it? Yes, the aristocracy usually vote conservative, but America doesn't have aristocracy(I'm American).
I find that most truly wealthy people vote very liberal and aren't afraid to give money away, only the upper middle class votes conservative. The more educated people are the more socially liberal they seem to be. University professors, for example, tend to be liberal people as do teachers and doctors. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Stephen Hawking, etc are all considered some of the most educated people in the world and they support liberal ideas. The fact of the matter is that truly wealthy people vote liberal while the upper-middle votes conservative. People with higher education also tend to vote liberally, the only group that you've mentioned that votes conservatively is the aristocracy, but they're nothing more than privileged little brats who want to hold on to as much power as possible.
by Connori Pilgrims » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:31 pm
Quew wrote:-garbage-
by Infected Mushroom » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:37 pm
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Saw someone post this on another forum.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/climate_an_excuse_for_new_taxes_scientists_dont_know_what_theyre_talking_about/People all around the world, responding to a survey by Ipsos MORI, have generally agreed with the ideas that scientists don't really know what they're talking about when it comes to the climate – and that governments are using environmental issues as an excuse to raise taxes.
These not-so-green views were transmitted as part of Ipsos MORI's new Global Trends 2014 survey, which can be seen here. Respondents were asked to respond "agree", "disagree" or "don't know" to various statements.
On balance the people of the world concurred with the statement "even the scientists don't really know what they're talking about on environmental issues", with only 42 per cent disagreeing and 48 per cent agreeing. Disbelief in scientific climate expertise was strongest in China, Japan and Germany. In Britain, the US and Australia, people were less sceptical, with those populations pretty much evenly split as to whether scientists know what they're on about regarding the environment.
The survey respondents also strongly endorsed the idea that "the government is just using environmental issues as an excuse to raise taxes", with 58 per cent in agreement and just 31 per cent disagreeing worldwide. The only countries in the survey where people actually disagreed were Italy and Sweden. Brits and Americans concurred with the notion of green tax plundering, but not as strongly as most nations: Spain, France and Belgium were the places that really got behind the idea.
Much has been made by some news organisations of the response to the statement "the climate change we are currently seeing is a natural phenomenon that happens from time to time". Here some 49 per cent of the people of the world disagreed, and 41 per cent agreed: but in the US and Britain (also India and China), more agreed than disagreed.
According to some, the survey shows a connection between "global warming denial" and "speaking English", much though they don't speak English in China, India, Poland or Russia - all places where people apparently believe that today's climate change is natural.
In fact what the survey really shows is the weakness of surveys, because a further statement, "the climate change we are currently seeing is largely the result of human activity", gained strong agreement everywhere - even in Britain, the USA, Russia, China, India and Poland.
So it would seem that an awful lot of people believe that "the climate change we are currently seeing" is both a natural phenomenon which happens from time to time and largely caused by humans.
Of course the confusion here may be worsened by the fact that we aren't "currently seeing" any climate change by the headline measure: there has been no global warming for perhaps 15 years.
But it does seem much clearer that people in general don't think scientists in general really know what's going on with the climate. This seems fair, as the more advanced climate physicists and related specialists freely admit to large uncertainties - and no other kind of scientist's opinion is much more valuable than a layman's, much though many marginal eggheads might disagree.
And it does seem completely beyond dispute that various governments have seized upon environmental issues and used them to impose various increasingly painful taxes and levies, though there doesn't seem to be much connection between the level at which a government does this and its citizens belief that it is doing so.
I think it's pretty ridiculous when people who aren't scientists are saying that scientists don't know what they're talking about. To me, it's just another case of climate change deniers burying their heads in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist. I see views like that as detrimental to human society.
What say you, NSG?
by Dakini » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:40 pm
by Reich Line » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:47 am
Sociobiology wrote:Viritica wrote:"The fact of the matter is there is no solution to climate change. The American government cannot solve the problem, because it is a global problem. Liberals say "we need to lead" but the fact of the matter is China, India, Brazil, Russia and any other emerging market does not give two fucks. They will not follow us by adopting expensive alternative energy, they will laugh at us for hurting our own comparative advantage.
by Imperializt Russia » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:35 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Saw someone post this on another forum.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/23/climate_an_excuse_for_new_taxes_scientists_dont_know_what_theyre_talking_about/
I think it's pretty ridiculous when people who aren't scientists are saying that scientists don't know what they're talking about. To me, it's just another case of climate change deniers burying their heads in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist. I see views like that as detrimental to human society.
What say you, NSG?
I would agree with them.
The government IS using climate change rhetoric to raise taxes and make us less and less able to hold on to what we earn.
I'll take climate change seriously when 100% of scientists can actually agree it exists, exactly what causes it (and they decide its primarily our fault), and can all agree on exactly how serious it is and what the actual practical consequences are. Right now its just doomsday talk and hearsay (who knows what will happen in 100 years, all I know is that we're paying through the nose because of taxes and regulations)...
Until then, don't make my petroleum more expensive please government. I know you need to finance some stuff under the table, but PLEASE don't use the climate change card. If the governments of the world were really all that serious about fighting the phantom of climate change and there really is this big consensus that its so dangerous as to constitute a crisis, there would be a treaty with everyone onboard.
Reich Line wrote:Sociobiology wrote:
china is already investing in alternative energy as is Japan, Brazil, and Europe. I'm not sure about India.
India is investing heavily into a specific nuclear energy program using Thorium. Thorium is like normal fissile material except it generates less radioactive waste and harder to weaponise. Very appropriate for India's condition.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Great Kleomentia » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:55 am
Cannot think of a name wrote:They're combining their lack of understanding of climate with their lack of understanding of taxation to form a Voltron of Uniformed Electorate...soon they'll form the Blazing Sword of Shitty Public Policy.
by Reddogkeno101 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:58 am
by Greater Beggnig » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:03 am
by Greater Beggnig » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:05 am
Dakini wrote:So 58% of people are horrifically ignorant.
by Korouse » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:06 am
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Ancientania, Corporate Collective Salvation, Emotional Support Crocodile, Vassenor
Advertisement