Can Socialism and Nationalism co-exist?

[Pandeeria]

Well I like to call myself a Liberal Socialist just to screw with others.

And the term "Social Democrat" is a bit too vague.

And the term "Liberal Socialist" isn't vague.

I get it though, confusing people is pretty fun sometimes.

It is indeed.

Yes, but you cannot be a libertarian socialist and a nationalist.

Yes, you can. Nationalism is pride for your country, not your government (though tyrannical governments throughout history did easily manipulate the nationalism into loyalty for the government).

Or a communist and a nationalist.

Since Communism abolishes the concept of a country, you are correct on that.

[Neo Rome Republic]

I think it's probably best that your nation tries to sort out it's horrific civil war before you start talking about territorial expansionism, your claims are as legitimate at the moment as Greece's claims over Constantinople.

Constantinople is part Greece, and yes Socialism and nationalism can coexist.

Internationalism and Marxism are some of the most evil ideologies on the planet.

Capitalist Americans backed Marx’s writings.

No, they didn't. They fought against a Nation that embraced Marxism(The USSR).

[Liberaxia]

Yes. See: Josip Broz Tito

See: Poverty, unemployment, death, deportations, me.

You?

[Dejanic]

See: Poverty, unemployment, death, deportations, me.

We talking the same Yugoslavia that outperformed a good deal of the Soviet bloc and some Western-aligned countries in the post-war period?

Yeah, the Yugoslavia that had crippling debt, one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe, and crashed miserably. Yugoslavia was very shitty outside of the nice parts of Belgrade and Zagreb, ask most of the people who lived there, especially citizens of rural Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo, who basically lived impoverished lives.

I don't think outperforming the Soviet bloc is much of an achievement, do you?

[Dejanic]

See: Poverty, unemployment, death, deportations, me.

You?

I wouldn't be here if my family didn't flee that place, pretty irrelevant over all, I just wanted to sound dramatic.

[Conserative Morality]

[
The same Yugoslavia that murdered Milosevic?

Er, Milosevic didn't die (Of a heart attack) until after the breakup of Yugoslavia.

[The New Sea Territory]

Doesn't this totally-cohesive logic fall into the same strand of logic as "it's OK to be racist as long as you're not white"-- "it's OK to be a nationalist as long as you're not the dominant country". Pretty faulty if you ask me.

And [tru] capitalism and the modern state, and even less so an imperialist institution, cannot coexist.

"True capitalism", just like "true communism". Only edgier.

I don't understand why you act as if anyone who says something is not truly, or purely, something, you define them as some edgy teenager. It shows that you really like disregarding people's arguments by just deeming them inferior.

[The Liberated Territories]

Yes. National Socialism before Hitler inserted his pragmatism in it.

I think both ideas are terrible, and putting them together is even a worse idea, though.

Capitalist internationalism ftw.

[The New Sea Territory]

Yes, but you cannot be a libertarian socialist and a nationalist.

Yes, you can. Nationalism is pride for your country, not your government (though tyrannical governments throughout history did easily manipulate the nationalism into loyalty for the government).

I think you mixed "libertarian" and "liberal" socialist. Libertarian socialism is almost synonymous with anarchism.

[Arab Republic of Syria]

Constantinople is part Greece, and yes Socialism and nationalism can coexist.

Internationalism and Marxism are some of the most evil ideologies on the planet.

Capitalist Americans backed Marx’s writings.

No, they didn't. They fought against a Nation that embraced Marxism(The USSR).

J.P Morgan funded Lenin.

[Pandeeria]

Capitalist internationalism ftw.

Yes, this.

[Pandeeria]

Yes, you can. Nationalism is pride for your country, not your government (though tyrannical governments throughout history did easily manipulate the nationalism into loyalty for the government).

I think you mixed "libertarian" and "liberal" socialist. Libertarian socialism is almost synonymous with anarchism.

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

[Dejanic]

I think you mixed "libertarian" and "liberal" socialist. Libertarian socialism is almost synonymous with anarchism.

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

That's the American form of Libertarianism (Libertarian Capitalism), New Sea is right on this one, Libertarian Socialism largely refers to Anarcho-Syndicalism, Anarcho-Communism, and Anarcho-Mutualism, it's an old term that's existed much longer than the American form of Libertarianism. I can't think of a non Anarchist form of Libertarian Socialism.

[Neo Rome Republic]

No, they didn't. They fought against a Nation that embraced Marxism(The USSR).

J.P Morgan funded Lenin.

Do you have proof of this? But even if I were to accept this as true, what's this to show that this company did out of ideological agreement with Marx, rather than doing it for profit? Also, the majority of Americans and the US government did not agree with Marxism. Even if a few did.

[The Liberated Territories]

I think you mixed "libertarian" and "liberal" socialist. Libertarian socialism is almost synonymous with anarchism.

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

Depends on the definition. Older definitions of libertarianism practically meant left wing anarchism, and was synonymous with such. Now it can mean anarchism or minarchism, economically far left (ancom) or far right (ancap), populist (patriots, national anarchism) or individualist (Objectivism, Stirnerite egoism).

I reject the idea that history can define a word. I think individuals and actions define words.

[Liberaxia]

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

Depends on the definition. Older definitions of libertarianism practically meant left wing anarchism, and was synonymous with such. Now it can mean anarchism or minarchism, economically far left (ancom) or far right (ancap), populist (patriots, national anarchism) or individualist (Objectivism, Stirnerite egoism).

I reject the idea that history can define a word. I think individuals and actions define words.

Communities define words.

[Arkolon]

Doesn't this totally-cohesive logic fall into the same strand of logic as "it's OK to be racist as long as you're not white"-- "it's OK to be a nationalist as long as you're not the dominant country". Pretty faulty if you ask me.

And [tru] capitalism and the modern state, and even less so an imperialist institution, cannot coexist.

"True capitalism", just like "true communism". Only edgier.

.. what?

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, the Yugoslavia that had crippling debt,

In the later period, yes, considering how hard they were hit by the oil crisis in the 70s.

one of the highest unemployment rates in Europe,

No argument there.

and crashed miserably.

No argument there. It was held together by a very distinctly Tito sense of nationalism that had trouble taking root with the deeply-planted divides of the region.

Yugoslavia was very shitty outside of the nice parts of Belgrade and Zagreb, ask most of the people who lived there, especially citizens of rural Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia and Kosovo, who basically lived impoverished lives.

I don't think outperforming the Soviet bloc is much of an achievement, do you?

Actually? I do think it is. The Soviet bloc, for all of its shit, had access to the resources of a world superpower that was, if not interested in making their lives better, interested in strengthening their economies in order to better approach Western standards of production. Yugoslavia was a little country in the middle of Europe that got fucked hard by the Germans and had neither the Soviets nor the West to rely on.

[The New Sea Territory]

I think you mixed "libertarian" and "liberal" socialist. Libertarian socialism is almost synonymous with anarchism.

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

Real libertarianism does. Left-libertarianism does, and non-Paulite or Randian libertarianism does.

[The Liberated Territories]

Depends on the definition. Older definitions of libertarianism practically meant left wing anarchism, and was synonymous with such. Now it can mean anarchism or minarchism, economically far left (ancom) or far right (ancap), populist (patriots, national anarchism) or individualist (Objectivism, Stirnerite egoism).

I reject the idea that history can define a word. I think individuals and actions define words.

Communities define words.

Communities don't exist, except in legal definitions.

[The New Sea Territory]

"True capitalism", just like "true communism". Only edgier.

.. what?

He's saying you're an edgy teenager because he's being lazy and doesn't want to really argue.

[The Liberated Territories]

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

Real libertarianism does. Left-libertarianism does, and non-Paulite or Randian libertarianism does.

"Real libertarianism"

So tell me more about real libertarianism is, Scotty?

[Arkolon]

Libertarianism doesn't abolish the government nor the state.

That's the American form of Libertarianism (Libertarian Capitalism), New Sea is right on this one, Libertarian Socialism largely refers to Anarcho-Syndicalism, Anarcho-Communism, and Anarcho-Mutualism, it's an old term that's existed much longer than the American form of Libertarianism. I can't think of a non Anarchist form of Libertarian Socialism.

Ironically, self-proclaimed anarcho-communists are in favour of confiscating all private property, in favour of gun control, want to regulate business as much as possible, tax the rich at higher rates, institute a higher minimum wage, give the central authority more power under the guise of democracy, all the while still claiming to want to bash the state. It's like political multitasking, right? It's pretty impressive.

[Liberaxia]

Communities define words.

Communities don't exist, except in legal definitions.

You're kidding me, right? If communities didn't exist, then how would we able to talk about them?

[The Liberated Territories]

That's the American form of Libertarianism (Libertarian Capitalism), New Sea is right on this one, Libertarian Socialism largely refers to Anarcho-Syndicalism, Anarcho-Communism, and Anarcho-Mutualism, it's an old term that's existed much longer than the American form of Libertarianism. I can't think of a non Anarchist form of Libertarian Socialism.

Ironically, self-proclaimed anarcho-communists are in favour of confiscating all private property, in favour of gun control, want to regulate business as much as possible, tax the rich at higher rates, institute a higher minimum wage, give the central authority more power under the guise of democracy, all the while still claiming to want to bash the state. It's like political multitasking, right? It's pretty impressive.

Don't forget those who support hate speech laws.