Are you Pro Palestine or Israel

[Roski]

Palestine does have a state of its own. They want more though.

no they dont

Then why are they relentlessly attacking Israel?

[Alcase]

Why are you guys debating about the nuclear capability of Israel?

This is a thread about whether you are Pro Palestine or Israel...

[Kelinfort]

See, I think Palestine should have a state of its own, but I do think that moderate Zionists have a point in attacking Hamas. Now, a ground offensive is not such a great idea, but for as long as this has been going on, I understand at least why they're doing it.

Palestine does have a state of its own. They want more though.

A "territory" not recognised by the international community nor having legal status or rights of open passage is not a state.

[Alcase]

Palestine does have a state of its own. They want more though.

A "territory" not recognised by the international community nor having legal status or rights of open passage is not a state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

International Recognition of the State of Palestine: Countries that recognize the State of Palestine


NATO and its partners are the only countries that do not formally recognize Palestine. A majority of the countries of Earth does.

[Rehansu Tir]

do go into more detail about their low yield.

You really are ignorant of this issue, aren't you. It's amazing how that ignorance also allows you to constantly demonstrate just how little you know.

"Theodore Taylor, a former U.S. weapon designer leading the field in small, efficient nuclear weapons, reviewed the 1986 leaks and photographs of the Israeli nuclear program by Mordechai Vanunu in detail. Taylor concluded that Israel's thermonuclear weapon designs appeared to be "less complex than those of other nations," and as of 1986 "not capable of producing yields in the megaton or higher range."

The Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) concluded after reviewing the evidence given by Vanunu that as of 1987, "the Israelis are roughly where the U.S. was in the fission weapon field in about 1955 to 1960."

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countri ... -aims.html

http://fas.org/issues/nuclear-weapons/s ... ar-forces/

[Rehansu Tir]

did they know they had nuclear weapons in 73?

sounds like israels nuclear weapons saved them then, hmm.

How? Israel neither used nor threatened to use nuclear weapons, even though the arabs out numbered and outgunned them.

[Alyakia]

do go into more detail about their low yield.

You really are ignorant of this issue, aren't you. It's amazing how that ignorance also allows you to constantly demonstrate just how little you know.

"Theodore Taylor, a former U.S. weapon designer leading the field in small, efficient nuclear weapons, reviewed the 1986 leaks and photographs of the Israeli nuclear program by Mordechai Vanunu in detail. Taylor concluded that Israel's thermonuclear weapon designs appeared to be "less complex than those of other nations," and as of 1986 "not capable of producing yields in the megaton or higher range."

The Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) concluded after reviewing the evidence given by Vanunu that as of 1987, "the Israelis are roughly where the U.S. was in the fission weapon field in about 1955 to 1960."

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countri ... -aims.html

http://fas.org/issues/nuclear-weapons/s ... ar-forces/

considering they are now believed to be able to produce weapons in the megaton range that seems a bit outdated.

can you make one post without going OH MAN I AM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU LOL? you're not in a high school debate club and even if you were you'd get told you knock that shit off.

did they know they had nuclear weapons in 73?

sounds like israels nuclear weapons saved them then, hmm.

How? Israel neither used nor threatened to use nuclear weapons, even though the arabs out numbered and outgunned them.

because it made the united states shower them with weapons?

[Rehansu Tir]

In the limited scope of the israel-palestinian conflict, no, but in the scope of the larger arab-israeli conflict (of which the israeli-palestinian conflict is just a small part) israel is very much the underdog. A lucky underdog, that has managed to survive 3 major wars against an overwhelming force, but an underdog all the same.

If by "overwhelming force" you mean unorganized attackers each working for their own objectives and not coordinating with each other then sure. If the Arab's had actually coordinated with each other and planned a single attack on Israel with a unified command structure they would have crushed the Israeli's, luckily for Israel this has yet to happen. They were hardly, if ever the underdog at war given the scope of the enemies they were facing.

Oh, so the arabs were organized enough to launch a joint unified attack on israel, make early gains and capture and defeat large portions of the israeli military, but then that all sort of disappeared to explain israel's victory. Yeah, got it.

[Roski]

did they know they had nuclear weapons in 73?

sounds like israels nuclear weapons saved them then, hmm.

How? Israel neither used nor threatened to use nuclear weapons, even though the arabs out numbered and outgunned them.

They outnumbered, not out gunned.

[Rehansu Tir]

In the case of germany vs the USSR, the issue isn't one of an underdog, it's the lesson that was learned: a more advance, better trained and equipped army can be overwhelmed and beaten by a larger army that is poorly equipped, poorly trained and under-armed.

You'd have to be significantly stronger than it. They weren't that much more advanced than the Soviets. the T-34 was a very advanced tank, as much as it doesn't look like it.

That's just not true. THe T-34s and T-60s, were badly designed, badly manufactured, badly put together and prone to failure and malfunction. But because they were so imprecise a machine, the soviets where able to manufacture 100 of them in the same time that it took germany to manufacture a single precise panzer.

"T-34s could only drive for an average of 200 km before the engine was worn out"

http://www.history.co.uk/shows/greatest ... s-series-1

http://www.history.co.uk/shows/greatest ... les/videos

[Rehansu Tir]

Name me ONE jewish american CEO who does not support zionism. And while you're at it, ONE arabian guy who runs an american business, and who does support Palestine.

I only needed to search "arab american businessman" to find this. I barely even tried.

"Controversial businessman blames 'pro-Israeli judges' for $4.75M judgment"
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/2014/06 ... tm_medium=[%22[%27twitter%27]%22]&utm_source=[%22[%27dlvr.it%27]%22]

[Washington Resistance Army]

If by "overwhelming force" you mean unorganized attackers each working for their own objectives and not coordinating with each other then sure. If the Arab's had actually coordinated with each other and planned a single attack on Israel with a unified command structure they would have crushed the Israeli's, luckily for Israel this has yet to happen. They were hardly, if ever the underdog at war given the scope of the enemies they were facing.

Oh, so the arabs were organized enough to launch a joint unified attack on israel, make early gains and capture and defeat large portions of the israeli military, but then that all sort of disappeared to explain israel's victory. Yeah, got it.

If you think the Arabs in any war against Israel had any form of coordination beyond attacking Israel you're showing how little you actually know about the events and of anything military related. If the Arab armies had actually coordinated like the Allies did in WW2 with a Supreme Commander or something along those lines who had control of all the Arab forces and orders could be properly relayed and carried out then Israel would have been crushed. The low coordination and lack of unity among the Arab forces is commonly listed as the biggest thing that made them lose, sure Israel was outnumbered but they were far more organized and as the German's demonstrated a few years prior that can be game changing.

[Rehansu Tir]

"Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range"

by virtue of being in the megaton range they are already about 6 times more powerful than the bomb dropped on hiroshima (16 kilotons) so "b-b-but they're low yield" is kinda funny

care to provide a source? I provided a reputable one, the federation of american scientists. Who did you quote - and if you say wikipedia, I will smack you.

[Rehansu Tir]

Palestine does have a state of its own. They want more though.

A "territory" not recognised by the international community nor having legal status or rights of open passage is not a state.

But palestine is recognized by the international community. the state of palestine is currently recognized by 134 states and the UN and has legal recognition in the UN and those states.

[Rehansu Tir]

can you make one post without going OH MAN I AM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU LOL? you're not in a high school debate club and even if you were you'd get told you knock that shit off.

It's not about me, but entirely about you. It's not like I'm holding a gun to your head and forcing you to make comments about a topic that you don't know about.

because it made the united states shower them with weapons?

So, the arabs were showered in the same weapons, not only from the US, but also from the USSR, britain and france. The arabs were better equipped than the israelis, better prepared, and fielded an armed force 3 times the size of israel's (egypt alone fielding twice as many soldiers as israel).

[Alyakia]

can you make one post without going OH MAN I AM SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU LOL? you're not in a high school debate club and even if you were you'd get told you knock that shit off.

It's not about me, but entirely about you. It's not like I'm holding a gun to your head and forcing you to make comments about a topic that you don't know about.

because it made the united states shower them with weapons?

So, the arabs were showered in the same weapons, not only from the US, but also from the USSR, britain and france. The arabs were better equipped than the israelis, better prepared, and fielded an armed force 3 times the size of israel's (egypt alone fielding twice as many soldiers as israel).

can you show me the arab equivalent of operation nickel grass please? (with the same wepaons?)

[Rehansu Tir]

How? Israel neither used nor threatened to use nuclear weapons, even though the arabs out numbered and outgunned them.

They outnumbered, not out gunned.

Yes, outgunned.

Israel had: Arabs had:
1,700 tanks 2,400 tanks
3,000 armored carriers 4,000 armored carriers
945 artillery units 1,7320 artillery units
440 combat aircraft 472 combat aircraft
140 helicopters
104 Navy vessels
150 surface to air missile batteries

Who was outgunned?

[Rothschild]

I used to be Pro-Palestine, but after some research I swapped sides. I am Pro-Israel, Anti-Zionist, and Anti-Palestine. Define what I am

[Rehansu Tir]

sure Israel was outnumbered but they were far more organized and as the German's demonstrated a few years prior that can be game changing.

Except that the more organized germans lost to the disorganized soviet horde...

[Rehansu Tir]

can you show me the arab equivalent of operation nickel grass please? (with the same wepaons?)

They didn't need it. They were the stronger force in numbers and equipment and they were winning.

[Alyakia]

can you show me the arab equivalent of operation nickel grass please? (with the same wepaons?)

They didn't need it. They were the stronger force in numbers and equipment and they were winning.

when you said the U.S., britain and france showered them with weapons i expected you to show that happening.

[Vamtrl]

The fact that Palestine has to resort to using tunnels to secure goods for its citizens is abhorring.

[Washington Resistance Army]

sure Israel was outnumbered but they were far more organized and as the German's demonstrated a few years prior that can be game changing.

Except that the more organized germans lost to the disorganized soviet horde...

After slaughtering them for 4 years and fighting a 3 front war while getting their industry bombed to a pulp. Germany didn't even reach it's peak production until 1944 and it can pretty accurately be argued if Hitler didn't butt into military planning so much they would have beaten the Soviets.

[Rehansu Tir]

Now this is an interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWDZ2PgD870

[Rehansu Tir]

They didn't need it. They were the stronger force in numbers and equipment and they were winning.

when you said the U.S., britain and france showered them with weapons i expected you to show that happening.

Those are the countries that armed the arabs, just as they continue to arm them today. Or do you deny that this is where they get their armaments? Of course, now they have china and india and the EU as a source as well.