Cataloina, Scotland, Quebec, and...wait...CALIFORNIA!?!

[Novus America]

So California sort of wants "devolved status"?

I mean, I sort of understand the idea of giving California more sovereignty over its domestic policy (as it's such a large and unique state).

We like to compare what we are seeking to Puerto Rico:

They are a territory of the United States.
They do not vote in federal elections.
They do not have federal representation (they do have an observer in Congress).
They do not have to pay many of the federal taxes.

We like to compare our campaign to that of what Scotland has done/is doing:

They are a nation.
They are sub-nationally sovereign.
Yet, Scotland is still part of the U.K.

In short, we'd like to reclassify California from "state" to "territory" and with that classification we lose participation in federal government but we pay less in federal taxes and we gain significantly with respect to local governance, as California would be empowered (we call this emancipated) to govern itself.

A Californian complaining about high federal taxes is like a mass shooter complaining about gun violence. A Californian complaining about a lack of states rights and local governance is equally silly.
Instead of this campaign, which will never work, why do you instead stop sending a Congressional delegation who tramples on the rights of your state? Stop voting for people like Pelosi and Obama, people who oppose states rights. High federal taxes? That is your fault. You voted for the people who hiked federal taxes! Want your rights back? Then why did you vote for a guy who is letting his wife regulate bake sales in your state? If you are in pain, stop shooting yourself in the foot before you seek other solutions.

Californian already is sovereign, and if you only voted for states rights supporters, you, and all the other states could get your 10th Amendment rights back. That is much better than seeking special treatment.

[New Bierstaat]

Well, ridding the USA of California's political influence wouldn't exactly bother me, as in wouldn't have to watch their 55 electoral votes consistently go Democratic while they continue to send Dianne Feinstein to Washington.

But perhaps some people here have heard of the geological idea that the coastal part of California will at some point (over millions of years) detach from the North American mainland and drift westward toward Asia. Perhaps Californian sovereignty would be a first step.

You do realize that Dianne Feinstein is actually something of a neoconservative, right?

I know you are a libertarian, but I'm seriously surprised that some of the Neocons aren't cheering her on. She wants to censor the internet, ban flag-burning, supports arresting Edward Snowden (she's the chair of the Senate Committee on Intelligence), the 'Patriot' Act, the death penalty, the war on drugs, and the Iraq War.

Just so you know, she is not, at all, a liberal.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... _Feinstein

And out of those things you mentioned, I support none except (maybe) the Iraq war, and I have a few reservations about abolishing the death penalty.

So Feinstein is right-wing in the ways in which I disagree with the Right (except being something of a war hawk in some limited instances) while opposing the central reasons why I identify with the Right as a member of the Tea Party (economic freedom).

Plus, voting for wiretap and then complaining when you get wiretappef doesn't get you very far in my book.

But I digress. Would it seem a little more sensible to grant greater autonomy to the coastal portion of California if it began to detach from the mainland as is predicted?

Also, note for the OP: You spelled CATALONIA wrong.

[United Provinces of Atlantica]

You do realize that Dianne Feinstein is actually something of a neoconservative, right?

I know you are a libertarian, but I'm seriously surprised that some of the Neocons aren't cheering her on. She wants to censor the internet, ban flag-burning, supports arresting Edward Snowden (she's the chair of the Senate Committee on Intelligence), the 'Patriot' Act, the death penalty, the war on drugs, and the Iraq War.

Just so you know, she is not, at all, a liberal.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... _Feinstein

But I digress. Would it seem a little more sensible to grant greater autonomy to the coastal portion of California if it began to detach from the mainland as is predicted?

I'm a big proponent of the idea that Geographical things, like rivers, shouldn't affect boundaries. Also, I do NOT want to wait for however long it takes for Coastal California to break away from North America to make California independent (I strongly support California becoming its own country and look forward to the day when I show my Californian passport at customs).

[Geilinor]

You do realize that Dianne Feinstein is actually something of a neoconservative, right?

I know you are a libertarian, but I'm seriously surprised that some of the Neocons aren't cheering her on. She wants to censor the internet, ban flag-burning, supports arresting Edward Snowden (she's the chair of the Senate Committee on Intelligence), the 'Patriot' Act, the death penalty, the war on drugs, and the Iraq War.

Just so you know, she is not, at all, a liberal.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... _Feinstein

But I digress. Would it seem a little more sensible to grant greater autonomy to the coastal portion of California if it began to detach from the mainland as is predicted?

Also, note for the OP: You spelled CATALONIA wrong.

It would make sense if we could predict what American politics would look like in millions of years or even if the country will exist in that time.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

It only depends on how many people support the idea: I can only advocate for what actually benefits the population, through elimination of social injustice and the right to identity and other progressive stuff.

[Freiheit Reich]

The USA will be better off getting rid of these states which are loaded with problems (the southeastern states have high crime and poor education levels)

Yes, because cities like Chicago and Washington are shining examples of public safety and intellectual prowess.

Both cities have high crime rates but they are also attracting a lot of high quality domestic and international migrants. Washington DC and Chicago were ranked #14 and #15 in the world to live in (I am shocked as well). Both are vibrant cities with a lot of great cultural attractions, recreational opportunities, and unique festivals.

I will admit, not all union cities are excellent. You should have mentioned hellholes like Detroit, Camden, Newark, E. St. Louis, Flint, and Gary. However, I was focusing on the states as a whole.

California is a cancer and we would be better off to cut out the tumor to save the body. You should question any state that sends a man to prison for several years for stealing a slice of pizza (nobody was hurt in this shocking theft):

Pizza Thief Gets 25 Years to Life : Crime: Judge cites five prior felony convictions in sentencing Jerry Dewayne Williams under 'three strikes' law. Defense attorney says he will appeal 'excessive punishment.'

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-03-03/ ... e-williams

[Freiheit Reich]

Give California their freedom or give it back to Mexico. The USA will be better off without California with its weird political views (which they are spreading to the rest of the nation). While we are at it, let's give back Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico and let the gulf coast states, Arkansas, Georgia, and South Carolina secede.

The USA will be better off getting rid of these states which are loaded with problems (the southeastern states have high crime and poor education levels) plus we stole the land from Mexico so we need to make amends. They are trying hard to take it back anyways via illegal settlement, lets save them the hassle of jumping over the border fence.

What the fuck is up with you trying to reduce the number of Americans?

No, seriously, every thread. What the hell is up with your xenophobia? Why do you hate your fellow Americans so much?

I don't hate Americans. I dislike some Americans weird ways of thinking though. Certain places are magnets for people with weird thoughts and ideas which sadly they want to spread across the nation. California is one of these places.

They want freedom for gays to marry but want to ban free happy meal toys. They want to allow marijuana but they want to forbid people smoking in their apartments and condos. They want a rainbow society but they want to exclude whites from jobs due to their evil skin color. I don't understand their hypocritical thinking.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/02 ... s-20101103

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/smok ... -city.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/2 ... 26768.html

Southwest Fresno leaders criticize hiring of white teacher for Gaston school's cultural studies

http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/07/28/404 ... rylink=cpy

[Reploid Productions]

Also, I do NOT want to wait for however long it takes for Coastal California to break away from North America to make California independent (I strongly support California becoming its own country and look forward to the day when I show my Californian passport at customs).

'bout 85,000,000 years from now. And it's not necessarily the entire California coast, more of a sliver sliced off from San Francisco and widening out to take a slightly wider sliver off SoCal, and likely to be replaced in part by Baja California instead.

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

Not many Californians are taking this seriously.

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

Very true, I can see why some people in Cali want to break off though. The US has a lot of problems and they probably just view it as easier to leave then try and fix it.

You mean you can see why 10 people in California want to break off.

Also, no one in California uses the word "Cali". In fact, we all shudder whenever someone uses it.

Yeah, it's gross.

[Norstal]

What the fuck is up with you trying to reduce the number of Americans?

No, seriously, every thread. What the hell is up with your xenophobia? Why do you hate your fellow Americans so much?

I don't hate Americans. I dislike some Americans weird ways of thinking though. Certain places are magnets for people with weird thoughts and ideas which sadly they want to spread across the nation. California is one of these places.

They want freedom for gays to marry but want to ban free happy meal toys. They want to allow marijuana but they want to forbid people smoking in their apartments and condos. They want a rainbow society but they want to exclude whites from jobs due to their evil skin color. I don't understand their hypocritical thinking.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/02 ... s-20101103

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/smok ... -city.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/2 ... 26768.html

Southwest Fresno leaders criticize hiring of white teacher for Gaston school's cultural studies

http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/07/28/404 ... rylink=cpy

Wow. I can't even begin to respond to this. I mean, where do I start? Your generalization? Your reading abilities? Your inability to understand what freedom means?

I'm done with this. I'm not going to reason with someone who thinks people with "weird" opinions should be kicked out of the U.S.

[Mushet]

Very true, I can see why some people in Cali want to break off though. The US has a lot of problems and they probably just view it as easier to leave then try and fix it.

You mean you can see why 10 people in California want to break off.

Also, no one in California uses the word "Cali". In fact, we all shudder whenever someone uses it.

Not true, Californians use Cali, I even have documentation, behold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZtN7lvIzrI 0:43 and 0:53 within the first minute

And shirts that say Cali on it are very popular, and this isn't stuff I see marketed to to tourists this is what I see in a local clothing store in El Sereno and in El Mercado de Los Angeles in Boyle Heights/East LA, not exactly tourist areas, locals wear this shit.

Anyway I don't see this California seceding shit as something that'll happen or as something desirable right now.

[Freiheit Reich]

I don't hate Americans. I dislike some Americans weird ways of thinking though. Certain places are magnets for people with weird thoughts and ideas which sadly they want to spread across the nation. California is one of these places.

They want freedom for gays to marry but want to ban free happy meal toys. They want to allow marijuana but they want to forbid people smoking in their apartments and condos. They want a rainbow society but they want to exclude whites from jobs due to their evil skin color. I don't understand their hypocritical thinking.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/02 ... s-20101103

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/smok ... -city.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/2 ... 26768.html

Southwest Fresno leaders criticize hiring of white teacher for Gaston school's cultural studies

http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/07/28/404 ... rylink=cpy

Wow. I can't even begin to respond to this. I mean, where do I start? Your generalization? Your reading abilities? Your inability to understand what freedom means?

I'm done with this. I'm not going to reason with someone who thinks people with "weird" opinions should be kicked out of the U.S.

Not kicked out, given the option to accept independence or be returned back to Mexico (since the USA stole California from Mexico).

The man who stole the pizza was wrong but it seems like unreasonable punishment to send him to prison for several years. A few strokes with a cane, a $300 fine (half which would be given to the victim) and some mandatory community service will be enough punishment for his crime.

So you think discrimination is OK so long as it is against whites? This seems to be the opinion in California, at least in Fresno.

Freedom is allowing businesses to give away toys, freedom is allowing people to use a legal product in their homes, I know freedom and I know Californians don't stand up for freedom.

California is ranked #49 in the freedom index:

http://freedominthe50states.org/

[New Chalcedon]

I'm not entirely certain but I don't think the state of California is financially solvent enough to declare itself sovereign. Besides, it goes against the union's clauses, IIRC.

To the first half, California is such a big net contributor to the Federal Government that I can't see how it wouldn't be fiscally viable. If Sacramento can levy taxes instead of DC, then it should have more than enough money.

The second half is, however, correct. States do not have the right to secede, per Texas v. White.

[Francaden]

Secession is illegal in the US unless you can win a war for it. I don't see a California with the resolve or ability to win that war. Votes for secession work in weakened powers only.

[Mushet]

Wow. I can't even begin to respond to this. I mean, where do I start? Your generalization? Your reading abilities? Your inability to understand what freedom means?

I'm done with this. I'm not going to reason with someone who thinks people with "weird" opinions should be kicked out of the U.S.

Not kicked out, given the option to accept independence or be returned back to Mexico (since the USA stole California from Mexico).

The man who stole the pizza was wrong but it seems like unreasonable punishment to send him to prison for several years. A few strokes with a cane, a $300 fine (half which would be given to the victim) and some mandatory community service will be enough punishment for his crime.

So you think discrimination is OK so long as it is against whites? This seems to be the opinion in California, at least in Fresno.

Freedom is allowing businesses to give away toys, freedom is allowing people to use a legal product in their homes, I know freedom and I know Californians don't stand up for freedom.

California is ranked #49 in the freedom index:

http://freedominthe50states.org/

California hardly was stolen from Mexico, since Mexico just took it over after Spain stole it from the various indigenous nations.

And that freedom index is some biased pseudo-libertarian bullshit, reccomendations to rise up, tort reform? That's restricting people's rights to get their compensation in court, that's not freedom.

[Norstal]

Not kicked out, given the option to accept independence or be returned back to Mexico (since the USA stole California from Mexico).

The man who stole the pizza was wrong but it seems like unreasonable punishment to send him to prison for several years. A few strokes with a cane, a $300 fine (half which would be given to the victim) and some mandatory community service will be enough punishment for his crime.

So you think discrimination is OK so long as it is against whites? This seems to be the opinion in California, at least in Fresno.

Freedom is allowing businesses to give away toys, freedom is allowing people to use a legal product in their homes, I know freedom and I know Californians don't stand up for freedom.

California is ranked #49 in the freedom index:

http://freedominthe50states.org/

California hardly was stolen from Mexico, since Mexico just took it over after Spain stole it from the various indigenous nations.

And that freedom index is some biased pseudo-libertarian bullshit, reccomendations to rise up, tort reform? That's restricting people's rights to get their compensation in court, that's not freedom.

This is a person who thinks that if we don't make California secede from the union, people across America will hate whites or some other bullshit. See previous posts.

I don't know how to reason with that logic. I don't even know where to begin really. The fact that the mods are allowing this means that NSG is lower than Stormfront.

[Freiheit Reich]

California hardly was stolen from Mexico, since Mexico just took it over after Spain stole it from the various indigenous nations.

And that freedom index is some biased pseudo-libertarian bullshit, reccomendations to rise up, tort reform? That's restricting people's rights to get their compensation in court, that's not freedom.

This is a person who thinks that if we don't make California secede from the union, people across America will hate whites or some other bullshit. See previous posts.

I don't know how to reason with that logic. I don't even know where to begin really. The fact that the mods are allowing this means that NSG is lower than Stormfront.

These are actual news articles and I was using them to defend my point of view that the USA should allow California the right to secede or give it back to Mexico (give the California people the choice). I was pointing out that there are many Californians that support discrimination. Racial discrimination is wrong (in my opinion-many Fresno people disagree as the news article shows).

California stolen from Mexico:

http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/conquest4.html

http://www.workers.org/2006/us/mexico-0504/

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/guadalu3.htm

[The Republic of Merrimont]

Huh my own state becoming sovereign? Sounds neat. But will never happen and i would not like it to happen

EDIT: Since we have oil america would invade within a year and claim California has WMDS

[Reploid Productions]

This is a person who thinks that if we don't make California secede from the union, people across America will hate whites or some other bullshit. See previous posts.

I don't know how to reason with that logic. I don't even know where to begin really. The fact that the mods are allowing this means that NSG is lower than Stormfront.

These are actual news articles and I was using them to defend my point of view that the USA should allow California the right to secede or give it back to Mexico (give the California people the choice). I was pointing out that there are many Californians that support discrimination. Racial discrimination is wrong (in my opinion-many Fresno people disagree as the news article shows).

California stolen from Mexico:

http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/conquest4.html

http://www.workers.org/2006/us/mexico-0504/

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/guadalu3.htm

1) Fresno is part of the more rural/conservative parts of the state. It's often regarded with derision by other Californians as "worse than Bakersfield" (I've been to both. Fresno is worse than Bakersfield.) Hardly the sample population to describe the entire state population by.

2) The whole "California secesion movement?" Most of us in the state don't wanna secede, we're quite happy staying with the Union thankyouverymuch.

3) Given I'm a) involved as a partivipant in the thread, 2) known to be from California already, and c) currently very tipsy, there's a reason I'm not modding anything in this thread. So Norstal, if you wanna report Freiheit for stuff, go report in Moderation and I'm sure one of my cober/non-Californian colleges will be happy to handle it.

[Caninope]

I'm not entirely certain but I don't think the state of California is financially solvent enough to declare itself sovereign. Besides, it goes against the union's clauses, IIRC.

To the first half, California is such a big net contributor to the Federal Government that I can't see how it wouldn't be fiscally viable.

Rather easily. Much of California's economy (and this applies to the entire United States, as well) relies on the fact that resources (including labor) is fairly mobile across the United States. Thus, California is helped by the fact that people can move from whatever state they're in to work in Silicon Valley. California is helped by the fact that it's companies can get loans from institutions not in California (California governments included).

Just because California is fiscally viable within a union doesn't mean that it's not viable outside of the union.

[Caninope]

freedom is allowing people to use a legal product in their homes, I know freedom and I know Californians don't stand up for freedom.

I just want to point out that using smoking products in your apartment or condo doesn't not effect just you. Your rights end where mine begin, and I have the right not to be subjected to secondhand smoke in my own home, if I choose.

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

freedom is allowing people to use a legal product in their homes, I know freedom and I know Californians don't stand up for freedom.

I just want to point out that using smoking products in your apartment or condo doesn't not effect just you. Your rights end where mine begin, and I have the right not to be subjected to secondhand smoke in my own home, if I choose.

I think smokers should be able to have housing that allows them to smoke. No one is forcing non-smokers to live there.

[Freiheit Reich]

freedom is allowing people to use a legal product in their homes, I know freedom and I know Californians don't stand up for freedom.

I just want to point out that using smoking products in your apartment or condo doesn't not effect just you. Your rights end where mine begin, and I have the right not to be subjected to secondhand smoke in my own home, if I choose.

Same could be said for marijuana, driving a car, using a power lawn mower, or having a barbecue. All of these things cause air pollution. Should they all be banned as well?

How much secondhand smoke can get through the condo walls? If cigarettes were that bad, they would be banned. It is a legal product.

Many residents are fleeing California for greener pastures (Texas would not be my first choice-but it is better than California):

Californians Fleeing 'Nanny State' for Texas

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/Augu ... for-Texas/

Californians Fleeing 'Nanny State' for Texas
By Paul Strand
CBN News Washington Sr. Correspondent
Tuesday, August 20, 2013
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One out of five Americans lives in either California or Texas. But recently there's been a mass exodus from the Golden State to the Lone Star State.

Life-long Californian Sylvia Beltran will soon join them.

"It breaks my heart," Beltran told CBN News, "because to live here in Southern California, you can be at the beach in an hour and you can be up skiing in an hour."

Those positives haven't stopped some 3.5 million residents from deserting the state in the last 30 years. The top reasons: a bad business climate, high taxes, and bad government. Those leaving believe it's going to get worse, not better.

While driving to Arizona, Beltran said she "saw one van coming into California and we saw probably half-a-dozen vans moving out."

"Voters are voting in a sense with their moving trucks," said Meredith Turney, a Californian who recently returned to her native state of Texas.

Worst of the Nanny States

One major reason for Turney's move is her frustration with California being the worst of the nanny states.

"The legislators in Sacramento think that they know better than the public how you should be running your life," Turney complained. "And that kind of mentality -- I just couldn't deal with that. I want to live in a state that respects my freedom."

Turney pointed out that state lawmakers introduce about 2,000 new laws a year.

"Two-thousand new laws that those legislators believe people in California need to abide by," Turney said.

Turney worked in Sacramento as a lobbyist for pro-family causes, which she said often led to lawmakers treating her horribly.

"It was very common for me to go into the capitol building to testify on pro-family policies and be called a bigot and be called ignorant," she recalled.

It was that kind of thing that made Linda Freeman's family head back to Texas just 18 months after moving to Marin County north of San Francisco for her husband's work.

Freeman said she was constantly confronted by a harsh, judgmental attitude.

"A very prosecutorial mindset," Freeman explained. "And I don't mean the government, just the government. I mean the people."

Freeman described these Californians' mindset: "If you use plastic bags, we're going to call the authorities. If you buy purebred dogs, we're going to call the authorities. If you give your children gluten and milk, we're going to call the authorities. These are your neighbors!"

Jesus Not Allowed

Her Christian home-schooled family encountered trouble right from the start.

"You could have a friendly, productive, deeply spiritual conversation about the monkey god Hanuman, but you could not talk about Jesus Christ," Freeman stated. "Buddhist, Hindu, whatever -- 'yay!' Christian -- 'boo!'"

When Turney was school-aged, her parents were worried about the California authorities finding out too much about the Turneys' home-schooling.

"There's just a very nanny state mentality that says, 'If you're not raising your children according to the way that we believe you should be, then we'll take your children from you,'" Turney explained.

"Out there I just found it to be very oppressive and a little scary because from prosecution really flows persecution," Freeman added.

It's that kind of atmosphere that has Beltran planning to leave as soon as she and her husband can retire, possibly to the Lone Star State.

"California is losing a lot of employers to Texas," Beltran said. "I want to go see why."

Demonizing Entrepreneurship

Former California lawmaker Chuck Devore said it's because Texas is so pro-business, while the Golden State taxes and regulates companies near to death.

"The average small business in California is hit for about $134,000 per year in compliance costs to comply with the regulations in the state of California," he said.

Dozens of companies are considering packing up and leaving. Dozens already have.

One company that moved this year was the gun business Shield Tactical, which relocated from Orange County to the small town of Shiner, Texas. California so infuriated the owner, John Harrington, he felt he had to leave.

Harrington was a Christian owner of a gun business: three strikes in the minds of many in the Golden State.

"A business is a necessary evil in the state of California. A gun business is just plain evil. And a Christian in the gun business is an enemy of the state, practically," Harrington said.

He recalled he was often characterized as an unenlightened barbarian. But he considered that ironic.

"I get death threats on a regular basis from the 'enlightened ones.' You know: 'kill yourself with your gun,' 'I hope somebody kills you.'"

Harrington said he loves being back in his home state of Texas where it's pro-gun, pro-freedom, and pro-business.

"News flash: the government doesn't create jobs. Barack Obama doesn't create jobs. I do," Harrington stated. "Guys like me do, and Texas gets that."

In just this century, Texas has created more than 1 million new jobs. California's lost more than 500,000. From 2004 to 2010, at leat 680,000 people moved from other states to Texas, a whopping 185,000 of them Californians.

A Lesson for America

Devore said America should learn from what's going on between the two states.

"It better be the future of America," he stated, "because, frankly, I don't see how this country can continue to prosper unless it becomes more like Texas and less like California."

Freeman said she and her family see Texas as the true land of liberty.

"We came back to Texas for freedom," she said. "One word, simple: freedom."

[Earth in Roughly 1000 Years]

I just want to point out that using smoking products in your apartment or condo doesn't not effect just you. Your rights end where mine begin, and I have the right not to be subjected to secondhand smoke in my own home, if I choose.

Same could be said for marijuana, driving a car, using a power lawn mower, or having a barbecue. All of these things cause air pollution. Should they all be banned as well?

How much secondhand smoke can get through the condo walls? If cigarettes were that bad, they would be banned. It is a legal product.

Many residents are fleeing California for greener pastures (Texas would not be my first choice-but it is better than California):

Californians Fleeing 'Nanny State' for Texas

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/Augu ... for-Texas/

Californians Fleeing 'Nanny State' for Texas
By Paul Strand
CBN News Washington Sr. Correspondent
Tuesday, August 20, 2013
Share
Tweet
Print 42 Comment(s)
Ad Feedback

One out of five Americans lives in either California or Texas. But recently there's been a mass exodus from the Golden State to the Lone Star State.

Life-long Californian Sylvia Beltran will soon join them.

"It breaks my heart," Beltran told CBN News, "because to live here in Southern California, you can be at the beach in an hour and you can be up skiing in an hour."

Those positives haven't stopped some 3.5 million residents from deserting the state in the last 30 years. The top reasons: a bad business climate, high taxes, and bad government. Those leaving believe it's going to get worse, not better.

While driving to Arizona, Beltran said she "saw one van coming into California and we saw probably half-a-dozen vans moving out."

"Voters are voting in a sense with their moving trucks," said Meredith Turney, a Californian who recently returned to her native state of Texas.

Worst of the Nanny States

One major reason for Turney's move is her frustration with California being the worst of the nanny states.

"The legislators in Sacramento think that they know better than the public how you should be running your life," Turney complained. "And that kind of mentality -- I just couldn't deal with that. I want to live in a state that respects my freedom."

Turney pointed out that state lawmakers introduce about 2,000 new laws a year.

"Two-thousand new laws that those legislators believe people in California need to abide by," Turney said.

Turney worked in Sacramento as a lobbyist for pro-family causes, which she said often led to lawmakers treating her horribly.

"It was very common for me to go into the capitol building to testify on pro-family policies and be called a bigot and be called ignorant," she recalled.

It was that kind of thing that made Linda Freeman's family head back to Texas just 18 months after moving to Marin County north of San Francisco for her husband's work.

Freeman said she was constantly confronted by a harsh, judgmental attitude.

"A very prosecutorial mindset," Freeman explained. "And I don't mean the government, just the government. I mean the people."

Freeman described these Californians' mindset: "If you use plastic bags, we're going to call the authorities. If you buy purebred dogs, we're going to call the authorities. If you give your children gluten and milk, we're going to call the authorities. These are your neighbors!"

Jesus Not Allowed

Her Christian home-schooled family encountered trouble right from the start.

"You could have a friendly, productive, deeply spiritual conversation about the monkey god Hanuman, but you could not talk about Jesus Christ," Freeman stated. "Buddhist, Hindu, whatever -- 'yay!' Christian -- 'boo!'"

When Turney was school-aged, her parents were worried about the California authorities finding out too much about the Turneys' home-schooling.

"There's just a very nanny state mentality that says, 'If you're not raising your children according to the way that we believe you should be, then we'll take your children from you,'" Turney explained.

"Out there I just found it to be very oppressive and a little scary because from prosecution really flows persecution," Freeman added.

It's that kind of atmosphere that has Beltran planning to leave as soon as she and her husband can retire, possibly to the Lone Star State.

"California is losing a lot of employers to Texas," Beltran said. "I want to go see why."

Demonizing Entrepreneurship

Former California lawmaker Chuck Devore said it's because Texas is so pro-business, while the Golden State taxes and regulates companies near to death.

"The average small business in California is hit for about $134,000 per year in compliance costs to comply with the regulations in the state of California," he said.

Dozens of companies are considering packing up and leaving. Dozens already have.

One company that moved this year was the gun business Shield Tactical, which relocated from Orange County to the small town of Shiner, Texas. California so infuriated the owner, John Harrington, he felt he had to leave.

Harrington was a Christian owner of a gun business: three strikes in the minds of many in the Golden State.

"A business is a necessary evil in the state of California. A gun business is just plain evil. And a Christian in the gun business is an enemy of the state, practically," Harrington said.

He recalled he was often characterized as an unenlightened barbarian. But he considered that ironic.

"I get death threats on a regular basis from the 'enlightened ones.' You know: 'kill yourself with your gun,' 'I hope somebody kills you.'"

Harrington said he loves being back in his home state of Texas where it's pro-gun, pro-freedom, and pro-business.

"News flash: the government doesn't create jobs. Barack Obama doesn't create jobs. I do," Harrington stated. "Guys like me do, and Texas gets that."

In just this century, Texas has created more than 1 million new jobs. California's lost more than 500,000. From 2004 to 2010, at leat 680,000 people moved from other states to Texas, a whopping 185,000 of them Californians.

A Lesson for America

Devore said America should learn from what's going on between the two states.

"It better be the future of America," he stated, "because, frankly, I don't see how this country can continue to prosper unless it becomes more like Texas and less like California."

Freeman said she and her family see Texas as the true land of liberty.

"We came back to Texas for freedom," she said. "One word, simple: freedom."

I stopped reading after some lady claimed California residents wanted to call the cops on her for using plastic bags. Lol so full of shit.