Surge 2014: A debate on Illegal Immigration and US Policies.

[Czechanada]

I once had an eccentric friend of mine argue that the solution to illegal immigration would simply be for each state to enforce serfdom.

[Norstal]

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but legal immigration to the US is pretty difficult. You can't just show up here.

And that's another problem. It's difficult to come to the US, even with a PhD. You have to jump through a lot of hoops.



...obviously. No one wants to bring all the poor people into the country and give them money.

I seem to recall Sibirsky saying that it would take a manual worker with little or no education 149 years to go through the legal immigration process.

Infinity. The way the DHS handles immigration cases is mysterious. They can just say they lost your files and you'd have to do your application process all over again. I'd rather have the DoJ handle it, considering they're the ones that does immigration reviews.

Right, so imagine you're ... what's the Latin American idiom for "Tom, Dick or Harry"? The US just isn't that welcoming anymore.

It isn't it's not welcoming. It's just the DHS is incompetent.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I seem to recall Sibirsky saying that it would take a manual worker with little or no education 149 years to go through the legal immigration process.

Infinity. The way the DHS handles immigration cases is mysterious. They can just say they lost your files and you'd have to do your application process all over again. I'd rather have the DoJ handle it, considering they're the ones that does immigration reviews.

Right, so imagine you're ... what's the Latin American idiom for "Tom, Dick or Harry"? The US just isn't that welcoming anymore.

It isn't it's not welcoming. It's just the DHS is incompetent.

The whole process is a mystery even for immigration attorneys; and well, that really shouldn't be happening.

I think the best way to go about is simplify the whole process and make clear and concise requirements for each type of visa AND make the DHS more efficient at what they do.

[Libertarian California]

Umm since when was our motto "durr white people are da best."?

I'm talking about Libertarian California, who has made no bones about his belief that the US is a country for white men.

Which is bullshit. His family wouldn't even be where they are now if not for Chinese labor.

The what the hell?

I don't think Chinese people built The Welcome.

Nor do I think Chinese people existed anywhere in America in 1682.

[Libertarian California]

I'm talking about Libertarian California, who has made no bones about his belief that the US is a country for white men.

Which is bullshit. His family wouldn't even be where they are now if not for Chinese labor.

The one time this was attempted to cater to white people, They lost. Their name? The Confederate States of America.

You seem to be ignoring the United States government until the mid-20th century.

Hell, start with the 1790 Naturalization Act. It's pretty specific who could become an American.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm talking about Libertarian California, who has made no bones about his belief that the US is a country for white men.

Which is bullshit. His family wouldn't even be where they are now if not for Chinese labor.

The what the hell?

I don't think Chinese people built The Welcome.

Nor do I think Chinese people existed anywhere in America in 1682.

Chinese immigrants among other immigrants worked in the railroads, which improved how goods were transported from state to state and it was the blueprint FDR took for the Interstate Highway System.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The one time this was attempted to cater to white people, They lost. Their name? The Confederate States of America.

You seem to be ignoring the United States government until the mid-20th century.

Hell, start with the 1790 Naturalization Act. It's pretty specific who could become an American.

Which was repealed when? And why is it so important that it has to be brought up in a discussion about 2014?

[Libertarian California]

The what the hell?

I don't think Chinese people built The Welcome.

Nor do I think Chinese people existed anywhere in America in 1682.

Chinese immigrants among other immigrants worked in the railroads, which improved how goods were transported from state to state and it was the blueprint FDR took for the Interstate Highway System.

They worked on half a railroad. The other half which was built by Irishmen.

And no. Eisenhower got the idea for the Interstate from the German Autobahn.

Nonetheless, what does this have to do with what I said?

[Libertarian California]

You seem to be ignoring the United States government until the mid-20th century.

Hell, start with the 1790 Naturalization Act. It's pretty specific who could become an American.

Which was repealed when?

The spirit of its message remained ingrained in American politics until 1965.

It was part of this country for the majority of its history, and the people who did away with it told us our ethnic makeup would not change.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Which was repealed when?

The spirit of its message remained ingrained in American politics until 1965.

It was part of this country for the majority of its history, and the people who did away with it told us our ethnic makeup would not change.

So you're scared that white people will be wiped out of the face of America? Is that it?

[Libertarian California]

The spirit of its message remained ingrained in American politics until 1965.

It was part of this country for the majority of its history, and the people who did away with it told us our ethnic makeup would not change.

So you're scared that white people will be wiped out of the face of America? Is that it?

No. It is that we will be reduced to a minority in the country that our ancestors founded, which will occur by 2042.

Also, there is the plethora of negative consequences of having a large third world population in America.

[Arkinesia]

So you're scared that white people will be wiped out of the face of America? Is that it?

No. It is that we will be reduced to a minority in the country that our ancestors founded, which will occur by 2042.

Also, there is the plethora of negative consequences of having a large third world population in America.

“Majority world” is a rapidly-dying concept.

Bill Gates is way ahead of the curve, but he's also right in predicting that by 2030, Africa will mostly be middle-income, and will still be the poorest continent on the planet. But living standards will have improved so much worldwide by that point that Africa's middle-income status will be the new poor. But it won't be poverty.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Which was repealed when?

The spirit of its message remained ingrained in American politics until 1965.

It was part of this country for the majority of its history, and the people who did away with it told us our ethnic makeup would not change.

See: 14th amendment, Naturalization Law of 1802, Naturalization Act of 1870, U.S. vs Wong Kim Ark's effects, Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 and Immigration and Nationality act of 1952.

All of those changed the makeup of who could become a citizen. I am not sure why are you suddenly thinking that until 1965 only "free white immigrants" ever had an exclusive right to citizenship until 1965.

[Arkinesia]

The spirit of its message remained ingrained in American politics until 1965.

It was part of this country for the majority of its history, and the people who did away with it told us our ethnic makeup would not change.

See: 14th amendment, Naturalization Law of 1802, Naturalization Act of 1870, U.S. vs Wong Kim Ark's effects, Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 and Immigration and Nationality act of 1952.

All of those changed the makeup of who could become a citizen. I am not sure why are you suddenly thinking that until 1965 only "free white immigrants" ever had an exclusive right to citizenship until 1965.

He is correct that the strict letter of the law stated “free white men” were the only legal immigrants until 1965.

But plenty of non-white immigrants were legally admitted anyway.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So you're scared that white people will be wiped out of the face of America? Is that it?

No. It is that we will be reduced to a minority in the country that our ancestors founded, which will occur by 2042.

Also, there is the plethora of negative consequences of having a large third world population in America.

And is being a minority so fucking painful for you that you can't live with the realization?

I mean fuck, if it wouldn't have been us it'd have been blacks and then what? miscegenation or genocide?

I can just imagine your logic then "Oh no! Blacks are becoming the new majority! Let's kill all them Negroes".

[Arkinesia]

Chinese immigrants among other immigrants worked in the railroads, which improved how goods were transported from state to state and it was the blueprint FDR took for the Interstate Highway System.

They worked on half a railroad. The other half which was built by Irishmen.

And no. Eisenhower got the idea for the Interstate from the German Autobahn.

Nonetheless, what does this have to do with what I said?

Most of the Southern railroads were built by blacks. So you're at best half-right.

You're right about the autobahns, though. Gee, I can't think of any other German transport networks we could use as a model for a similar, new American transport network…

[Farnhamia]

You seem to be ignoring the United States government until the mid-20th century.

Hell, start with the 1790 Naturalization Act. It's pretty specific who could become an American.

Which was repealed when? And why is it so important that it has to be brought up in a discussion about 2014?

Any prior bad act automatically invalidates ... well, just about anything a person or a country might have done since.

[Libertarian California]

The spirit of its message remained ingrained in American politics until 1965.

It was part of this country for the majority of its history, and the people who did away with it told us our ethnic makeup would not change.

See: 14th amendment, Naturalization Law of 1802, Naturalization Act of 1870, U.S. vs Wong Kim Ark's effects, Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 and Immigration and Nationality act of 1952.

All of those changed the makeup of who could become a citizen. I am not sure why are you suddenly thinking that until 1965 only "free white immigrants" ever had an exclusive right to citizenship until 1965.

See the 1924 immigration quotas which only let Europeans immigrate into the United States. It was designed to give America a majority white population, because in 1960, the United States was 90% white.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

See the 1924 immigration quotas which only let Europeans immigrate into the United States. It was designed to give America a majority white population, because in 1960, the United States was 90% white.

And the quotas are quite frankly bullshit. It doesn't do anything other than stifle immigration because of its ridiculously low numbers.

The quota system is working under the assumption that 1910 is 2014.

[Canaore]

See the 1924 immigration quotas which only let Europeans immigrate into the United States. It was designed to give America a majority white population, because in 1960, the United States was 90% white.

In case you haven't noticed, Europe's improved quite substantially since 1924, so their drive to immigrate to America is not as high as it once was. Either way, I like how you brand well-estabilished American values as high-minded utopianism yet you keep on insisting the US, as a state, has an ethnic identity. You're really into pick and choose bullshit, aren't you?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Which was repealed when? And why is it so important that it has to be brought up in a discussion about 2014?

Any prior bad act automatically invalidates ... well, just about anything a person or a country might have done since.

Well shit, that means my life is utterly meaningless since I was in high school and got a ticket for jaywalking I guess.

[Libertarian California]

See the 1924 immigration quotas which only let Europeans immigrate into the United States. It was designed to give America a majority white population, because in 1960, the United States was 90% white.

In case you haven't noticed, Europe's improved quite substantially since 1924, so their drive to immigrate to America is not as high as it once was. Either way, I like how you brand well-estabilished American values as high-minded utopianism yet you keep on insisting the US, as a state, has an ethnic identity. You're really into pick and choose bullshit, aren't you?

It's not high-minded utopianism given that it actually happened...

[Kelinfort]

In case you haven't noticed, Europe's improved quite substantially since 1924, so their drive to immigrate to America is not as high as it once was. Either way, I like how you brand well-estabilished American values as high-minded utopianism yet you keep on insisting the US, as a state, has an ethnic identity. You're really into pick and choose bullshit, aren't you?

It's not high-minded utopianism given that it actually happened...

I wouldn't call blatant racialism a goal we would want to achieve.

[Arkinesia]

It's not high-minded utopianism given that it actually happened...

I wouldn't call blatant racialism a goal we would want to achieve.

B-but muh white nationalism!

[Gig em Aggies]

I wouldn't call blatant racialism a goal we would want to achieve.

B-but muh white nationalism!

It didn't work well for the Germans my friend and white nationalism is DOA