The Confederate battle flag

[Vazdania]

Just because 1 attempt failed doesn't mean they should have given up.

Except both attempts failed miserably. A confederacy cannot expect to respond to economic or military threats in a quick manner due to the decentralised administration. A confederacy only works to ruin any chances of a stable and solid policy and government.

Centralizing fiscal, monetary, and military policy can still work in a confederacy.

[Ifreann]

Of course. The CSA was all about slavery.


Well, if ever you feel the need to express that preference with a flag, try one that isn't associated with slavery and racism, or people with think you're a slavery-loving racist.

---

I am implying no such thing.

It was more than slavery, and by you suggesting this, is just evidence of the fact that you've absolutely no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about. The Civil War was about much more than just slavery.

No, it really wasn't. Anyone who told you that it was was either lying to you, or was deceived themselves by historical revisionists. This has been explained repeatedly in this thread.

[Ucropi]

It was more than slavery, and by you suggesting this, is just evidence of the fact that you've absolutely no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about. The Civil War was about much more than just slavery.

No, it really wasn't. Anyone who told you that it was was either lying to you, or was deceived themselves by historical revisionists. This has been explained repeatedly in this thread.

I may be misreading this but did you just claim that the Civil War was only about slavery?

[Vazdania]

It was more than slavery, and by you suggesting this, is just evidence of the fact that you've absolutely no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about. The Civil War was about much more than just slavery.

No, it really wasn't. Anyone who told you that it was was either lying to you, or was deceived themselves by historical revisionists. This has been explained repeatedly in this thread.

BULLSHIT. All of the states had the legal right to succeed. The preservation of a loose system was paramount to why the states left in the first place.

Slavery if anything was a secondary issue.

[Ifreann]

Believe what you like, just don't pretend to be upset when other people look down on you for waving a flag associated with slavery and rebellion.

Isn't the American flag associated with rebellion too?

Not really. I'm sure most people would be aware that America came about by way of rebellion, but that was over 200 years ago and America has done plenty of things since. The Confederates, on the other hand, really didn't do anything except start a war to keep black slavery and then lose that war.

[Kelinfort]

No, it really wasn't. Anyone who told you that it was was either lying to you, or was deceived themselves by historical revisionists. This has been explained repeatedly in this thread.

BULLSHIT. All of the states had the legal right to succeed. The preservation of a loose system was paramount to why the states left in the first place.

Slavery if anything was a secondary issue.

Can you point to the right of secession?

[Vazdania]

Isn't the American flag associated with rebellion too?

Not really. I'm sure most people would be aware that America came about by way of rebellion, but that was over 200 years ago and America has done plenty of things since. The Confederates, on the other hand, really didn't do anything except start a war to keep black slavery and then lose that war.

Or preserve the loose system envisioned by the founding fathers.

[Kelinfort]

Except both attempts failed miserably. A confederacy cannot expect to respond to economic or military threats in a quick manner due to the decentralised administration. A confederacy only works to ruin any chances of a stable and solid policy and government.

Centralizing fiscal, monetary, and military policy can still work in a confederacy.

Can you give a modern example?

[Ucropi]

Isn't the American flag associated with rebellion too?

Not really. I'm sure most people would be aware that America came about by way of rebellion, but that was over 200 years ago and America has done plenty of things since. The Confederates, on the other hand, really didn't do anything except start a war to keep black slavery and then lose that war.

How do you not understand that the civil war wasn't about slavery? Slaves were only freed to cripple their economy. If the north had had an agriculture based economy instead of the south you would probably own a human being still today.

[Vazdania]

BULLSHIT. All of the states had the legal right to succeed. The preservation of a loose system was paramount to why the states left in the first place.

Slavery if anything was a secondary issue.

Can you point to the right of secession?

It was only after the states succeeded that it was ruled illegal.

[Farnhamia]

Not really. I'm sure most people would be aware that America came about by way of rebellion, but that was over 200 years ago and America has done plenty of things since. The Confederates, on the other hand, really didn't do anything except start a war to keep black slavery and then lose that war.

How do you not understand that the civil war wasn't about slavery? Slaves were only freed to cripple their economy. If the north had had an agriculture based economy instead of the south you would probably own a human being still today.

The southern states tried to leave because they were afraid they would lose their slaves. That's how it's only about slavery. Other reasons were added in the years after the war as southerners tried to justify a horrible mistake.

[Kelinfort]

Not really. I'm sure most people would be aware that America came about by way of rebellion, but that was over 200 years ago and America has done plenty of things since. The Confederates, on the other hand, really didn't do anything except start a war to keep black slavery and then lose that war.

Or preserve the loose system envisioned by the founding fathers.

Who then changed the Articles and wrote a constitution. I think you need to reread history.

[Farnhamia]

Can you point to the right of secession?

It was only after the states succeeded that it was ruled illegal.

Where does the Constitution say states can secede?

[Vazdania]

Isn't the American flag associated with rebellion too?

True, rebellion for good cause. The south had no good cause and they had numerous political remedies open to them for redress of their grievances.

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

[Farnhamia]

True, rebellion for good cause. The south had no good cause and they had numerous political remedies open to them for redress of their grievances.

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

Again, please cite the part of the Constitution that says states can leave the Union.

[Sdaeriji]

True, rebellion for good cause. The south had no good cause and they had numerous political remedies open to them for redress of their grievances.

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

Violently attacking the noble and innocent Confederate bullets with their torsos, yeah?

[Kelinfort]

True, rebellion for good cause. The south had no good cause and they had numerous political remedies open to them for redress of their grievances.

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

Ah Yes, because the Confederates only tried to violently seize stores of weapons, and broke the law.

Of course it was a fucking rebellion, they had no legal right, and were represented in national politics.

[The Black Forrest]

That's how you deal with rebellion.

Not sure what the point of this post was. You didn't agree or disagree and didn't add anything new to the discussion.

What exactly was your point?

Lincoln didn't play nice with the freedom loving South?

[Cymrea]

You're not American are you?

Completely irrelevant.

For one thing, we have literal slavery in this country...

You demonstrate a clear misunderstanding of the meaning of "literal".

...because we have privatized prisons with disproportionate minority inmate populations who are forced to work for the profit of corporations with no compensation at all.

Privatized prisons are a direct result of self-serving voters who are constantly shrieking for stronger and longer sentences, but absolutely refuse to pay any additional taxes to pay for the real costs of their demands.

And you refer to convicted offenders who compare in no way whatsoever with African slaves.

For another, our disparity of wealth and its effect on the Black population means that yes, Black people are degraded and treated as sub-human because of income inequality.

The economic disparity in the U.S. is not limited to blacks. Try not to focus too hard on the travails of one group to the exclusion of others.

I don't know what the f- Drury Enterprises is but enjoy having to suck up to a boss and be fired if you insult him even when he's an absolute a-hole and deserves it

You state in your own words that you don't know what the company is and then in the same pseudo-sentence speak as though you know for a fact that there are bosses that require being sucked up to, or act like assholes. Do you, in fact, know "what the f- Drury Enterprises" is, making you a liar? Or do you not know a damned thing about the company and how it functions, making your assertions a piss-poor effort at anti-corporate rhetoric?

I see you've learned well enough to love your chains just like Uncle Tom. Congrats.

It's clear you're too blinded by your own ignorance and narrow-mindedness to see a fucking thing beyond your own less-than-half-informed inflammatory wanking. Congrats.

[Kelinfort]

Can you point to the right of secession?

It was only after the states succeeded that it was ruled illegal.

Something not ruled illegal =/= it's legal.

[Vazdania]

It was only after the states succeeded that it was ruled illegal.

Where does the Constitution say states can secede?

Where does it say that they are required to be a part of the union? As stated previously all laws and rulings pertaining to the south and its so called illegal secession were made after the civil war or after the state had already seceded.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Clearly, offering an olive branch is the mark of a terrible man.

Um, the point was that he offered and wanted to preserve the institution of slavery--that was part of the "olive branch" offer. Never mind that your whole argument has been that the South stood for slavery and the North did not, which can be proven to be patently false. They both wanted to preserve slavery.

But if you don't speak English fluently, or have never studied history, at least one of which appears to be the case, I'm about done here.

Just because the North was willing to choose slavery over war doesn't mean it WANTED slavery. That's like giving someone a choice between being gang raped or being shot in the head and then pretending like they seduced you and totally wanted all that sex.

What the North actually wanted was peace and a united country.

[Cyrisnia]

True, rebellion for good cause. The south had no good cause and they had numerous political remedies open to them for redress of their grievances.

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter

[Vazdania]

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

Ah Yes, because the Confederates only tried to violently seize stores of weapons, and broke the law.

Of course it was a fucking rebellion, they had no legal right, and were represented in national politics.

That was on their property. They asked soldiers from Fort Sumpter to remove themselves off of Confederate territory.

[Vazdania]

The CSA wasn't even a rebellion in the first place so there is absolutely no reason to associate the flag with rebellion. It was a legal peaceful secession which was violently attacked by power hungry federalists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter

Yes, The Fort Sumpter incident was caused wholly by the Federalist States of America. They didn't remove themself from Confederate Territory.