Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Herskerstad]

I did not know IS stood for 'Israeli State' then.

Still, a one state solution for the middle east to be run by Israel would improve things dramatically, admittedly.

Overlooking the right to self determination aren't we. Not that I would simply advocate a one state solution for Palestine [only] either and nor would the writer of this article.
https://kanaanonline.org//articles/01592.pdf

Well, the regions generally overlook civil rights of various stripes, religious rights, minority rights, general suffrage and very often they are good at overlooking the rights of self determination themselves as the current grand middle eastern conflict proves.

And yes, obviously it was a hyperbole, but it does not change the fact that the whole region is an unstable mess with only one gem which happens to be Israel.

[Gauthier]

And yes, obviously it was a hyperbole, but it does not change the fact that the whole region is an unstable mess with only one gem which happens to be Israel.

Except Israel gets a legion of people making excuses for it when it behaves exactly like every other country in the region.

[Herskerstad]

And yes, obviously it was a hyperbole, but it does not change the fact that the whole region is an unstable mess with only one gem which happens to be Israel.

Except Israel gets a legion of people making excuses for it when it behaves exactly like every other country in the region.

But it gets a whole legion more of condemnations for being far superb in conduct as compared to any nations in the region. There was not exactly a great civil outcry when Sudan were slaughtering people several tens of times worse, and what casual person cares to go beyond a yawn when Sadam Hussein were using WMD's on his own citizens, or any number of other conflicts in the region. Maybe a twitter campaign here and a news note there even if it is wholesales butchering, or for that reason when middle eastern nations expelled jews en masse in protest of Israel, many of them Israeli's now incidentally. Where is their right of return and reimbursement campaigns? No one even really gave a shit when Egypt occupied the gaza strip, and where they had neither citizenship nor basic human rights, but I guess that's just the middle east being the middle east, whereas when Israel goes in to quell down the violence from a region with eternal funding from paragons of virtue such as Iran and Saudi Arabia and fights a foe who values a tweet of a dead kid more than the lives at an entire school, and has formed a death-cult of a political party which gains a large amount of support from even the citizens. And Israel investing billions into high precision weaponry to limit casualties despite the human shield tactics where they get no courtesy from Hamas which would blow up Tel Aviv tomorrow if they could, Then yes, Israel must be post-colonial occupiers because some people don't have the observational capacity to go beyond ' But muh brown ppl' and it does not matter that most of the other regions nearby are unstable, despotic hellholes to one degree or another. If north korea would have been the size of Palestinian territories, there would have been no more north korea today. If Pakistan had been the same size as those territores, there would be no Pakistan today, and Israel, if it wanted to, could ensure there would be no Palestine tomorrow, and it has had the power to do so for over four decades facing only the enmity of nations which has sworn it from the start, it has many times invited to peace which has been routinely rejected from the Palestinian right, left and center. All because of some words from a Bedouin caravan raider 1400 years back. Yeah, the day Israel behaves like the rest of the middle east, is the day they destroy Palestine and go on to permanently conquer the Levant, put laws to have women restricted to something between a person and cattle and forcefully extradites the ever growing minorities in their nation.

[Murkwood]

Israel just announced that's it will seize 400 acres in West Bank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd1JvGC ... 0OQlHhkgfz

I made a map to help the Israelis know what land belongs to them:

RED=Israel
BLUE=NOT ISRAEL

The Arabs didn't seem to think so in 1948, 1967, or 1973.

[Dragomerian Islands]

I made a map to help the Israelis know what land belongs to them:

RED=Israel
BLUE=NOT ISRAEL

The Arabs didn't seem to think so in 1948, 1967, or 1973.

This is NOW not then

[Tmutarakhan]

And yes, obviously it was a hyperbole, but it does not change the fact that the whole region is an unstable mess with only one gem which happens to be Israel.

Except Israel gets a legion of people making excuses for it when it behaves exactly like every other country in the region.

Not "exactly". Syria kills more civilians in an average month than the entire Israel/Palestine conflict over the past century.

[Tmutarakhan]

The Arabs didn't seem to think so in 1948, 1967, or 1973.

This is NOW not then

And is the Arab attitude any different now than it was then? Among many of the West Bankers, I am hopeful that this is the case; the Gazan leadership is still stuck in the 1930's, although it is hard to tell what the Gazans under their rule think now.

[Murkwood]

The Arabs didn't seem to think so in 1948, 1967, or 1973.

This is NOW not then

But how has Arab attitudes towards Israel really changed?

[The Jonathanian States]

Israel just announced that's it will seize 400 acres in West Bank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd1JvGC ... 0OQlHhkgfz

I made a map to help the Israelis know what land belongs to them:

RED=Israel
BLUE=NOT ISRAEL

Now, I'm an advocate of a Two State Solution for Israel and Gaza/West-Bank, but the Golan Heights will stay where they are, because it's either that or Assad(And by extension his Syria, which still is at war with Israel, having an open road down south). And really, I'll take Israel in the Golan over Assad up there, every day. And by the way, IIRC, in addition to the jewish populace, at least some of the Druze populace there consider themselves Israelis.

[MERIZoC]

This is NOW not then

But how has Arab attitudes towards Israel really changed?

Several Arab countries that had previously been hostile towards Israel now recognize its right to exist.

[Murkwood]

But how has Arab attitudes towards Israel really changed?

Several Arab countries that had previously been hostile towards Israel now recognize its right to exist.

And by several you mean two, Egypt and Jordan, right? The only reason they do is because Israel destroyed them in war.

[MERIZoC]

Several Arab countries that had previously been hostile towards Israel now recognize its right to exist.

And by several you mean two, Egypt and Jordan, right? The only reason they do is because Israel destroyed them in war.

Well, not sure about Jordan, but Egypt did it because of the Camp David Accords.

[Murkwood]

And by several you mean two, Egypt and Jordan, right? The only reason they do is because Israel destroyed them in war.

Well, not sure about Jordan, but Egypt did it because of the Camp David Accords.

That's only two. Hardly several.

[MERIZoC]

Well, not sure about Jordan, but Egypt did it because of the Camp David Accords.

That's only two. Hardly several.

True, and it's unfortunately not enough. But still, it's progress. Especially considering Israel isn't being invaded anymore.

[To Quoc Duc]

And the Camp David Accords were a direct result of Egypt's recognition that it would never again be capable of fighting Israel, and only did it to begin with as a compromise to get the Sinai back. Why they wanted it to begin with, I'll never fully understand.

[Angleter]

Israel just announced that's it will seize 400 acres in West Bank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd1JvGC ... 0OQlHhkgfz

I made a map to help the Israelis know what land belongs to them:

RED=Israel
BLUE=NOT ISRAEL

Ah, yes. The problems with this conflict is that there's not enough maps, and not enough oversimplifications.

[Angleter]

And by several you mean two, Egypt and Jordan, right? The only reason they do is because Israel destroyed them in war.

Well, not sure about Jordan, but Egypt did it because of the Camp David Accords.

Jordan wants to prop itself up. Making peace with Israel, for one, obviously struck 'war with Israel' from the long list of threats to the Hashemites' survival - granted, neither Israel nor Jordan were about to go to war with the other, but Jordan had been essentially press-ganged into such a war in the past (1967). Moreover, it proved that Jordan was a loyal American ally. Jordan had, as recently as 1987, been actively pursuing its claim to the West Bank, but US foreign policy had swung decisively behind the establishment of an independent PLO state there, to the extent that Washington basically saved Arafat's arse twice - in 1982 and 1991. So though Jordan had renounced its claim to the West Bank in 1988, the peace treaty set in stone that Jordan was a fully-paid up supporter of the American-led peace process (although it's still sceptical about the idea of a PLO or Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas state on its borders), wasn't about to go rogue and sweep the PLO out of the West Bank (or the Jews out of Israel), and was more than worthy of vast quantities of American arms. And finally, it allowed Jordan to cut any ties to Palestine or Palestinians, thus pleasing any restless East Bank Bedouins, weakening the internal threat from the PLO or the MB/Hamas, and allowing it to further restrict the civil and political rights of its Palestinian-descended majority (in turn again, weakening the PLO and MB threats).

[Gauthier]

Well, not sure about Jordan, but Egypt did it because of the Camp David Accords.

That's only two. Hardly several.

Clearly none of it counts until they ALL bow before Israel. *nod nod*

[Zelacraux]

How about America stops sending weapons to Israel, Israel backs off Gaza and the UN deals with it once more cause Israel needs some serious calming down.
America can probably stop Israel's bombings by talking it out and STOP sending weapons yeah.

[Dragomerian Islands]

How about America stops sending weapons to Israel, Israel backs off Gaza and the UN deals with it once more cause Israel needs some serious calming down.
America can probably stop Israel's bombings by talking it out and STOP sending weapons yeah.

I say, we build a 50 meter tall wall around Israel (excluding their stolen possessions) and have weapons fire at anyone coming out, so that they know what it feels like, as they did a similar thing to the West Bank and Gaza.

[Zelacraux]

How about America stops sending weapons to Israel, Israel backs off Gaza and the UN deals with it once more cause Israel needs some serious calming down.
America can probably stop Israel's bombings by talking it out and STOP sending weapons yeah.

I say, we build a 50 meter tall wall around Israel (excluding their stolen possessions) and have weapons fire at anyone coming out, so that they know what it feels like, as they did a similar thing to the West Bank and Gaza.

That's really interesting and a HUGE change. The wall thing just gave me an idea. Just have Israel excluded like North Korea. No bothering Israel while Israel doesn't bother anyone else. But there are Israelis in there who are peaceful and wish none of that happened so they are free to leave.

[Gauthier]

How about America stops sending weapons to Israel, Israel backs off Gaza and the UN deals with it once more cause Israel needs some serious calming down.
America can probably stop Israel's bombings by talking it out and STOP sending weapons yeah.

I say, we build a 50 meter tall wall around Israel (excluding their stolen possessions) and have weapons fire at anyone coming out, so that they know what it feels like, as they did a similar thing to the West Bank and Gaza.

And then the Nazi comparisons start flying for the umpteenth time, as with anything that doesn't give Israel a blowjob and a tickle.

[Roski]

How about Gaza stops fucking firing Rockets at Israel so that both countries can go on with their lives.

[Calimera II]

The Arabs didn't seem to think so in 1948, 1967, or 1973.

This is NOW not then

It is called a buffer. Needed for national security reasons.

[Murkwood]

This is NOW not then

It is called a buffer. Needed for national security reasons.

Israel doesn't need security, duh. All they need to do is give up Palestine and the Arabs will be happy, right?