Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Viritica]

Everyone blames hamas for rocket fire but the real reason this happened is nonting new for Zionist in Israel they Take settlements by building more new one and killing innocent Palestinian in there homes. killing children innocent Palestinian and no Arab country in the middle east fights for the Gaza Muslim. Israeli fires airstrikes on ambulances going to injured and the dead IDf " Say they are hamas terrorist. And killing from the IDF is haram to the thousands of community Palestinian people" Israel should be charged with war crimes ' the Jews always won't more land and religious right while Palestinians backs are against the wall. Hamas is not just some jihad groups but independent government for Palestine who else cares in the region? Damn sure not the IDF or Israel. Yet Jew Arabs and service in Israel army and military. if your commend to service Israel. yet Palestinian Arabs get the war of unjust. propaganda is fun and one sided to Muslims in the region and the west will always back Israel . People are fleeing there homes and now even more poor cases fires are a joke Israel . Wants genocidal of the Palestinian people but Allah knows best .

My eyes. They're bleeding.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Everyone blames hamas for rocket fire but the real reason this happened is nonting new for Zionist in Israel they Take settlements by building more new one and killing innocent Palestinian in there homes. killing children innocent Palestinian and no Arab country in the middle east fights for the Gaza Muslim. Israeli fires airstrikes on ambulances going to injured and the dead IDf " Say they are hamas terrorist. And killing from the IDF is haram to the thousands of community Palestinian people" Israel should be charged with war crimes ' the Jews always won't more land and religious right while Palestinians backs are against the wall. Hamas is not just some jihad groups but independent government for Palestine who else cares in the region? Damn sure not the IDF or Israel. Yet Jew Arabs and service in Israel army and military. if your commend to service Israel. yet Palestinian Arabs get the war of unjust. propaganda is fun and one sided to Muslims in the region and the west will always back Israel . People are fleeing there homes and now even more poor cases fires are a joke Israel . Wants genocidal of the Palestinian people but Allah knows best .

Uh, spellcheck, you should probably use it. But no, the West won't always back Israel, they've lost most off their support in Europe already.

[Gauthier]

Because the annihilation of Hamas is not possible through military action. Gaza is, quite literally, under siege, and its inhabitants are all operating under siege mentality. That's why support for Hamas is at an all time high - against an outside world that seems to bring nothing but bombs and death, they're the only ones fighting back. Doubling down on the attack just deepens the siege mentality, and Gaza would be a corpse-strewn ruin before they gave up the fight. When faced with annihilation, surrender isn't an option.

That's why the smart move for Israel right now would be to give Hamas everything it wants. No, really. Hear me out; Hamas' terms are quite simple - they want a seaport, they want an end to the blockade and they want an international airport. That's pretty much it. Those are all within Israel's permit to grant, but more importantly doing that would break the siege mentality.

A good way to approach it would be the following; Israel announces in a press conferences that it's willing to grant all of Hamas' demands, in exchange for an end to the rocket fire and an eventual path to disarmament. As a sign of good faith, the IDF would plan to end their attacks on the Strip in 24 hours' time and allow international aid through the border checkpoints, contingent on the rocket fire ending at that time as well. The Israeli government would give Hamas one week to decide whether or not they want to take the offer; if no word is received by that time or the demands are rejected, the IDF would resume its attacks. If the deal is accepted, the UN is brought in immediately to work out a long-term plan.

This changes Hamas from being the one thing standing between the Gazans and death into the one thing standing between the Gazans and real change for the better. If Hamas gets pressured by the moderate majority and the international community into accepting the deal and disarming, it's a win for Israel and a win for the Gazans. If Hamas rejects the deal and the IDF attacks begin again, Hamas gets the full blame and the newfound resentment of the Gazans, undermining their attempts to fight Israel without spilling a single drop more blood than would have occurred anyway without the peace offer.

You see, I'd be inclined to agree with you but there's a very simple problem with this: Hamas's overall goal is the complete and utter annihilation of the Jewish state. They've made it clear multiple times that they want the destruction of Israel and the return of all "stolen" land to the Palestinian people. I can't help but worry that if Hamas becomes strong enough they'll strike Israel and they'll strike them hard. I can't help but feel that they'll use that seaport to ship in weapons and supplies.

Israel encouraged Hamas to undermine the PLO and they're bitching about Hamas wanting to destroy Israel? Or maybe they bombed and invaded Gaza to make Hamas the legitimate authority in Palestinian eyes to have a guaranteed boogieman they can point at while slowly grabbing land.

[Avenio]

Because the annihilation of Hamas is not possible through military action. Gaza is, quite literally, under siege, and its inhabitants are all operating under siege mentality. That's why support for Hamas is at an all time high - against an outside world that seems to bring nothing but bombs and death, they're the only ones fighting back. Doubling down on the attack just deepens the siege mentality, and Gaza would be a corpse-strewn ruin before they gave up the fight. When faced with annihilation, surrender isn't an option.

That's why the smart move for Israel right now would be to give Hamas everything it wants. No, really. Hear me out; Hamas' terms are quite simple - they want a seaport, they want an end to the blockade and they want an international airport. That's pretty much it. Those are all within Israel's permit to grant, but more importantly doing that would break the siege mentality.

A good way to approach it would be the following; Israel announces in a press conferences that it's willing to grant all of Hamas' demands, in exchange for an end to the rocket fire and an eventual path to disarmament. As a sign of good faith, the IDF would plan to end their attacks on the Strip in 24 hours' time and allow international aid through the border checkpoints, contingent on the rocket fire ending at that time as well. The Israeli government would give Hamas one week to decide whether or not they want to take the offer; if no word is received by that time or the demands are rejected, the IDF would resume its attacks. If the deal is accepted, the UN is brought in immediately to work out a long-term plan.

This changes Hamas from being the one thing standing between the Gazans and death into the one thing standing between the Gazans and real change for the better. If Hamas gets pressured by the moderate majority and the international community into accepting the deal and disarming, it's a win for Israel and a win for the Gazans. If Hamas rejects the deal and the IDF attacks begin again, Hamas gets the full blame and the newfound resentment of the Gazans, undermining their attempts to fight Israel without spilling a single drop more blood than would have occurred anyway without the peace offer.

You see, I'd be inclined to agree with you but there's a very simple problem with this: Hamas's overall goal is the complete and utter annihilation of the Jewish state. They've made it clear multiple times that they want the destruction of Israel and the return of all "stolen" land to the Palestinian people. I can't help but worry that if Hamas becomes strong enough they'll strike Israel and they'll strike them hard. I can't help but feel that they'll use that seaport to ship in weapons and supplies.

And, of course, since Hamas has no navy the IDF would be perfectly able to conduct investigations of its own on incoming traffic. Since, again, the pressure would all be on Hamas to get with the program, they really wouldn't have much choice but to allow it.

Besides which, in the absence of Israel being an immediate threat to Gaza, Hamas' support would melt away underneath them, leading them to either deradicalize and slowly become a local Fatah equivalent, or be shunted off the stage in favour of other moderates.

[Costa Fierro]

Everyone blames hamas for rocket fire but the real reason this happened is nonting new for Zionist in Israel they Take settlements by building more new one and killing innocent Palestinian in there homes. killing children innocent Palestinian and no Arab country in the middle east fights for the Gaza Muslim. Israeli fires airstrikes on ambulances going to injured and the dead IDf " Say they are hamas terrorist. And killing from the IDF is haram to the thousands of community Palestinian people" Israel should be charged with war crimes ' the Jews always won't more land and religious right while Palestinians backs are against the wall. Hamas is not just some jihad groups but independent government for Palestine who else cares in the region? Damn sure not the IDF or Israel. Yet Jew Arabs and service in Israel army and military. if your commend to service Israel. yet Palestinian Arabs get the war of unjust. propaganda is fun and one sided to Muslims in the region and the west will always back Israel . People are fleeing there homes and now even more poor cases fires are a joke Israel . Wants genocidal of the Palestinian people but Allah knows best .

Uh, spellcheck, you should probably use it. But no, the West won't always back Israel, they've lost most off their support in Europe already.

It doesn't help when most European countries have sizable amounts of Muslims that are ready and willing to get angry and riot at every opportunity. Look at France.

The funny thing is, they get angry at Israel for the treatment of Palestinians but no anger is shown at Morocco's treatment of Sahrawi's or Turkey's settler program for Northern Cyprus.

[Viritica]

You see, I'd be inclined to agree with you but there's a very simple problem with this: Hamas's overall goal is the complete and utter annihilation of the Jewish state. They've made it clear multiple times that they want the destruction of Israel and the return of all "stolen" land to the Palestinian people. I can't help but worry that if Hamas becomes strong enough they'll strike Israel and they'll strike them hard. I can't help but feel that they'll use that seaport to ship in weapons and supplies.

Israel encouraged Hamas to undermine the PLO and they're bitching about Hamas wanting to destroy Israel? Or maybe they bombed and invaded Gaza to make Hamas the legitimate authority in Palestinian eyes to have a guaranteed boogieman they can point at while slowly grabbing land.

The irony of what you're saying is that Israel agreed to withdraw from all it's settlements in Gaza and four in the West Bank. It got met with rocket fire from Israel. So the whole "slowly grabbing land" thing you're saying is a bunch of horseshit, much like everything else you're saying.

[Viritica]

Uh, spellcheck, you should probably use it. But no, the West won't always back Israel, they've lost most off their support in Europe already.

It doesn't help when most European countries have sizable amounts of Muslims that are ready and willing to get angry and riot at every opportunity. Look at France.

The funny thing is, they get angry at Israel for the treatment of Palestinians but no anger is shown at Morocco's treatment of Sahrawi's or Turkey's settler program for Northern Cyprus.

And no anger at Hamas for hiding weapons in mosques and schools and using people as human shields.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Uh, spellcheck, you should probably use it. But no, the West won't always back Israel, they've lost most off their support in Europe already.

It doesn't help when most European countries have sizable amounts of Muslims that are ready and willing to get angry and riot at every opportunity. Look at France.

The funny thing is, they get angry at Israel for the treatment of Palestinians but no anger is shown at Morocco's treatment of Sahrawi's or Turkey's settler program for Northern Cyprus.

This is true, guess it's not PC to be upset with Muslims nowadays.

[Gauthier]

It doesn't help when most European countries have sizable amounts of Muslims that are ready and willing to get angry and riot at every opportunity. Look at France.

The funny thing is, they get angry at Israel for the treatment of Palestinians but no anger is shown at Morocco's treatment of Sahrawi's or Turkey's settler program for Northern Cyprus.

This is true, guess it's not PC to be upset with Muslims nowadays.

Which conveniently ignores that most of the European Muslims are all reserved in shoddy, economically crap ghettoes, for a lack of a better term and not very affluent. When was the last time you had filthy rich Muslims rioting in the streets?

[Viritica]

This is true, guess it's not PC to be upset with Muslims nowadays.

Which conveniently ignores that most of the European Muslims are all reserved in shoddy, economically crap ghettoes, for a lack of a better term and not very affluent. When was the last time you had filthy rich Muslims rioting in the streets?

When was the last time you heard anyone filthy rich rioting in the streets?

[Costa Fierro]

This is true, guess it's not PC to be upset with Muslims nowadays.

I don't see what's wrong with pointing out hypocrisy in the world.

[Washington Resistance Army]

This is true, guess it's not PC to be upset with Muslims nowadays.

Which conveniently ignores that most of the European Muslims are all reserved in shoddy, economically crap ghettoes, for a lack of a better term and not very affluent. When was the last time you had filthy rich Muslims rioting in the streets?

Well truthfully, when was the last time any filthy rich people rioted in the streets? I'm not European so I won't pretend to know what it's like, but I have heard Muslims do tend to be poorer overall, course it's that way with most immigrants. I do find it pretty stupid how some people get mad at Israel for it's settlements but not Turkey or any other nations.

[Costa Fierro]

Which conveniently ignores that most of the European Muslims are all reserved in shoddy, economically crap ghettoes, for a lack of a better term and not very affluent. When was the last time you had filthy rich Muslims rioting in the streets?

Playing the "all x are y" card now? Not all Muslims in Europe live within poverty and destitution.

[Gauthier]

Which conveniently ignores that most of the European Muslims are all reserved in shoddy, economically crap ghettoes, for a lack of a better term and not very affluent. When was the last time you had filthy rich Muslims rioting in the streets?

Playing the "all x are y" card now? Not all Muslims in Europe live within poverty and destitution.

Can you say, "Reading Comprehension"?

[Costa Fierro]

Which conveniently ignores that most of the European Muslims are all reserved in shoddy, economically crap ghettoes, for a lack of a better term and not very affluent. When was the last time you had filthy rich Muslims rioting in the streets?

Well truthfully, when was the last time any filthy rich people rioted in the streets? I'm not European so I won't pretend to know what it's like, but I have heard Muslims do tend to be poorer overall, course it's that way with most immigrants. I do find it pretty stupid how some people get mad at Israel for it's settlements but not Turkey or any other nations.

Because no one cares. The Sahrawis have been living in refugee camps for 40 years. The Moroccan government built a giant sand wall that essentially separates the areas controlled by the Polisario from the areas controlled by Morocco. And if the wall protecting the Moroccans from "terrorists" wasn't enough, it's also fortified with seven million landmines. Those living within Moroccan controlled areas face discrimination from the government and from Moroccans who moved into the cities such as El Aiun. Morocco currently does not recognize Israel as a legitimate state and has criticized Israel for its settlement program.

Then you have Northern Cyprus. Turkey invades in 1974 to "protect" ethnic Turks from Greek nationalists. A brief war occurs followed by nationalists and Turkish troops committing ethnic cleansing against Greek Cypriots and massacres of Greek Cypriot civilians. The Turkish government then basically took over property left behind by the fleeing Greeks and moved settlers from mainland Turkey into said properties. Although Turkey has recognized Israel as a legitimate state, it has criticized Israel's settler program a number of times and recently announced intentions to use it's navy to protect an "aid flotilla" to help Gazans.

[Costa Fierro]

Playing the "all x are y" card now? Not all Muslims in Europe live within poverty and destitution.

Can you say, "Reading Comprehension"?

Can you say "all x are y"? You can? Good boy.

[Viritica]

Can you say, "Reading Comprehension"?

Can you say "all x are y"? You can? Good boy.

[Gauthier]

Can you say, "Reading Comprehension"?

Can you say "all x are y"? You can? Good boy.

Most = All?

Yep, Reading Comprehension.

[Costa Fierro]

Most = All?

Yep, Reading Comprehension.

I'm not the one claiming all Muslims are living in poverty in Europe. But if you want to go there, fine. I don't like to generalize.

[Gauthier]

Most = All?

Yep, Reading Comprehension.

I'm not the one claiming all Muslims are living in poverty in Europe. But if you want to go there, fine. I don't like to generalize.

And you're the one who somehow sees "most" as "all". But if you want to go there, fine.

[Costa Fierro]

I'm not the one claiming all Muslims are living in poverty in Europe. But if you want to go there, fine. I don't like to generalize.

And you're the one who somehow sees "most" as "all". But if you want to go there, fine.

So do you think that Arab views towards Israel are hypocritical? Turks also?

Or maybe they bombed and invaded Gaza to make Hamas the legitimate authority in Palestinian eyes to have a guaranteed boogieman they can point at while slowly grabbing land.

Slowly grabbing land? Can you show us exactly where Israel grabbed land in Gaza, presumably for more settlements? Israel invaded Gaza to get rid of the tunnels and rockets which were built to circumvent the blockade on Gaza and supplied materials for the construction of rockets. If it was some sort of "land grab", Israel would have already done so. Settlers seem to take land from the Palestinians with IDF help with no issues in the West Bank all the time, so Israel can grab land if it wants. But. It. Hasn't.

[Gauthier]

And you're the one who somehow sees "most" as "all". But if you want to go there, fine.

So do you think that Arab views towards Israel are hypocritical? Turks also?

And if they are does that somehow magically absolve Israel of all the bad things they've ever done?

Or maybe they bombed and invaded Gaza to make Hamas the legitimate authority in Palestinian eyes to have a guaranteed boogieman they can point at while slowly grabbing land.

Slowly grabbing land? Can you show us exactly where Israel grabbed land in Gaza, presumably for more settlements? Israel invaded Gaza to get rid of the tunnels and rockets which were built to circumvent the blockade on Gaza and supplied materials for the construction of rockets. If it was some sort of "land grab", Israel would have already done so. Settlers seem to take land from the Palestinians with IDF help with no issues in the West Bank all the time, so Israel can grab land if it wants. But. It. Hasn't.

They haven't grabbed any land so far, but announcements of settlement expansions are inevitable.

[Viritica]

And you're the one who somehow sees "most" as "all". But if you want to go there, fine.

So do you think that Arab views towards Israel are hypocritical? Turks also?

Or maybe they bombed and invaded Gaza to make Hamas the legitimate authority in Palestinian eyes to have a guaranteed boogieman they can point at while slowly grabbing land.

Slowly grabbing land? Can you show us exactly where Israel grabbed land in Gaza, presumably for more settlements? Israel invaded Gaza to get rid of the tunnels and rockets which were built to circumvent the blockade on Gaza and supplied materials for the construction of rockets. If it was some sort of "land grab", Israel would have already done so. Settlers seem to take land from the Palestinians with IDF help with no issues in the West Bank all the time, so Israel can grab land if it wants. But. It. Hasn't.

Not to mention that back in 2005 Israel withdrew from all it's settlements in Gaza and four in the West Bank. What'd it get in return? Rocket attacks from Hamas.

Proving Gauth wrong is fun, ain't it?

[Costa Fierro]

Anyway, apparently Turkey is planning to give the latest "aid flotilla" naval protection.

Because it wasn't satisfied with the definition of "hypocrisy" so it now wants to try "clusterfuck".

[Costa Fierro]

And if they are does that somehow magically absolve Israel of all the bad things they've ever done?

No. But it doesn't automatically render Arabs innocent in mistreatment of other people.

They haven't grabbed any land so far, but announcements of settlement expansions are inevitable.

Because it's Israel, presumably.