The whole Avatar debate

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The Snake Brotherhood
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The whole Avatar debate

Postby The Snake Brotherhood » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:25 pm

So, Avatar is the new hit on the box. The movie was long in the making (actually 10 years, it seems), and a lot of money has been spent for making and promoting it. I watched it. Truly an orgasm for the eye. While the plot is rather flat and full of cliches (not surprisingly), it is also true that the movie is a pioneer of a new age of cinematography. Much has been said about it, from both praisers and critics...but generally it is enjoying high marks http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avatar/. Mainly for its special animation effects, and the 3D adventure it brings us into. A nice way to spend 3 hours, by any means.

So far, so good...

But here is where we go political.


While Cameron's cinematographic achievement has earned deserved ovations, there are voices that turn the attention to the political side of the movie. Basically, the accusations are as follows...

Accusation 1. Avatar is branded as an obvious leftist, anti-war, anti-industrial, pro-environmentalist propaganda. It is animation, and many children are going to watch it. And they will get brainwashed into the New Age, hippie naturalist agenda of the author(s). Just one more proof that Hollywood is Liberal, etc. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/geoffrey-dickens/2009/12/14/today-james-cameron-reveals-liberal-propaganda-avatar

Accusation 2. Avatar is unpatriotic, un-American and many more "un" things, and above all, un-humanist, because it puts mankind in the position of the bad guys, the oppressor, who is colonising the poor lovely aliens. It is also seen as an allusion to the Iraq War. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100019656/is-avatar-an-attack-on-the-iraq-war/

Accusation 3. Avatar is racist, because, when drawing the above parallel between the human invasion and colonialism, it creates an impression that only the white man (i.e. the humans) possess the ability/capacity to destroy worlds, and respectively to save worlds. The native aliens are obviously not able to save themselves on their own, and they need a white/human to do it for them.

Accusation 4. In the meantime, Avatar promotes reverse racism, because it implants white guilt - humans are the bad guys, they are destroying a beautiful planet and a native civilisation that lives in harmony with nature. "And then there’s his underlying purpose: Avatar is the corniest movie ever made about the white man's need to lose his identity and assuage racial, political, sexual and historical guilt." http://www.nypress.com/article-20710-blue-in-the-face.html

Miscellaneous accusations. For instance, some Indian religious organisations have expressed concerns about the way the movie depicts their religion (I am talking about Hinduism).

And then, there are the most fringe lunatics coming out of the woodwork and telling us that the movie is about population control and the director is an eugenicist. :) http://www.thestoryofagirl.com/2009/12/20/avatar-propaganda/

Etc, etc.


Being a cinemaniac myself, all this made me thinking. What is going on here? I mean in the world of cinema, and art as a whole? Thus I arrived at a couple of questions that I would like to put here for discussion.

1) How powerful an indoctrination tool is cinema, actually? We have seen many examples, from the early propaganda films during WW2 and beyond, to the modern creations that earn the Oscars. Has the role of cinema as a tool for shaping public perceptions increased with the advance of technology and the globalisation of the media?

2) Is this avoidable? Does the public have any way to protect itself from being indoctrinated by the ideas that are constantly pouring from the screen? And is this necessary at all? I mean...the art and media are part of social life, including politics. It is an open stage for presenting ideas and exposing the public to ideas. In this sense, should we try to resist this phenomenon, or we should embrace its effects, while still remaining capable of critical thinking?

3) Does art/cinema follow the current trends, or does it create them? Does the cinema establishment (producers, directors, writers) actually answer whatever preferences the mainstream public has at the moment, or just the opposite - they are like a powerful mind cabal that has its own agenda and is trying to shape the brains of the "sheeple"? If the former, then isn't this what free market is about (numbers sell)? If the latter, who/what are these working for?

4) What is the reason for the increased polarisation in society recently? People seem to react with much more extreme emotions to nearly everything, especially politics...and yes, also including art, and the cinema in particular. Just remember the Muhammad cartoons. Several Danish embassies in the Muslim world were besieged by angry crowds. Then, there is the movie "300", a clearly cartoonish one, but it was banned in Iran because it was perceived as offensive to the Persian/Iranian culture. There was also the movie "Borat", an apparent spoof, which however caused an angry reaction by the Kazakhs, who said it depicted them in a derogatory way. Even Brokeback Mountain caused outrage with its "apparent promotion of the gay agenda" and "mockery of the traditional American symbols". And now there is Avatar, a nice well thought and well executed high quality fiction 3D animation which again is stirring the passions. What is wrong with people? Or has it always been like that, but we are noticing this just now, because the modern age of global information exposes us to these phenomena worldwide?


This of course could be expanded beyond cinema, it could apply to any kind of art. But, being quite interested in the media, I needed to ask these questions and see your opinions. Avatar comes very timely now, as it was released just after the Copenhagen summit (I am sure it is no coincidence). Being close to the environmentalist ideas myself, it would have been so easy for me to say that the movie is in tune with my convictions, period. But I feel we should be more critical about these things.

And...if anything, the movie is a very good way to kill 3 hours in the theater! So, in case you still haven't seen it, go watch it and then report back! :)

Or just tell me your opinion on the above issues.
Last edited by The Snake Brotherhood on Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EvilDarkMagicians
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Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:34 pm

All those accusation were a load of trollop, as I'm sure you know. ;)
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The Snake Brotherhood
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Postby The Snake Brotherhood » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:37 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful opinion ;)

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Port Arcana
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Postby Port Arcana » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:39 pm

All those accusations were probably made by nutters. Then again, I love movies with a liberal agenda! :twisted:

I'm off to actually see the movie in 3 hours! Whee! :)

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Chrobalta
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Postby Chrobalta » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:40 pm

I had no intentions of seeing it until I read this. Makes me want to see it :)
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Port Arcana
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Postby Port Arcana » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:41 pm

Chrobalta wrote:I had no intentions of seeing it until I read this. Makes me want to see it :)

Haha, actually I believe this applies to me as well. At first when it came out I was like "meh, boring blockbuster". But cries of "t3h libural propaganda!!11" combined with good reviews all around actually convinced me to go see it. :)

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Postby Call to power » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:47 pm

an original story and perhaps some scripting that would make me want to avoid self-harm could be an idea

I'm not really impressed by super fantastic CGI because I'm not 12
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:52 pm

i would expect that any child who loves avatar would be unwilling to slaughter offworlders for their mineral rights.
whatever

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The_pantless_hero
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Postby The_pantless_hero » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:53 pm

Pro-environmentalist, fact. Cameron loves his nature. You know what he has been doing for the past 10 years besides doodling up this movie? Filming underwater nature films for his own amusement. Everything else is hogwash.
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The Snake Brotherhood
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Postby The Snake Brotherhood » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:58 pm

Port Arcana wrote:All those accusations were probably made by nutters. Then again, I love movies with a liberal agenda! :twisted:

I'm off to actually see the movie in 3 hours! Whee! :)



Enjoy it to the full! :lol:

Just watch out for flying bullets and fern branches whipping your face!

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The Snake Brotherhood
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Postby The Snake Brotherhood » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:58 pm

Chrobalta wrote:I had no intentions of seeing it until I read this. Makes me want to see it :)


I'm not a paid promoter, I swear! :rofl:

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:59 pm

I loved the technical aspect of the movie. Absolutely incredible.

I gave a massive eyeroll when the "these guys messed up the green on thier planet and want to do it here" line. This is more liberal green "worship the earth" crap. "Save the trees, kill the children" kind of thing.

I will watch it again probably, I am just disappointed at the propaganda.
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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:59 pm

The Snake Brotherhood wrote:
Port Arcana wrote:All those accusations were probably made by nutters. Then again, I love movies with a liberal agenda! :twisted:

I'm off to actually see the movie in 3 hours! Whee! :)



Enjoy it to the full! :lol:

Just watch out for flying bullets and fern branches whipping your face!


And burning embers.
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Ferrisev
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Postby Ferrisev » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:59 pm

When will people learn to read the "Science-Fiction" Description of these sorts of things...it's just a movie probably not ment to insult anybody.
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The Snake Brotherhood
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Postby The Snake Brotherhood » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:00 pm

Guys, we're having a good laugh, but don't forget I also put 4 questions to ponder about ;)

Ah... Lazy holiday time.

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Jamaalea
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Postby Jamaalea » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:00 pm

All do-gooders... all trying to pull up old wounds. But the only way forward is up! We have to look back to know where we're going but when you've come so far forward it would be a waste of time, and in larger cases, a waste of existence, to go back! The damage is done but we have until 2012 to live it out! :P

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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:01 pm

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:I loved the technical aspect of the movie. Absolutely incredible.

I gave a massive eyeroll when the "these guys messed up the green on thier planet and want to do it here" line. This is more liberal green "worship the earth" crap. "Save the trees, kill the children" kind of thing.

I will watch it again probably, I am just disappointed at the propaganda.

i am afraid that crappy dialogue like that will make me rant. pretty pictures just arent enough for me.
whatever

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Hitchensland
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Postby Hitchensland » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:01 pm

Have you ever read a newspaper before? Conservatives bitch about everything. Conservatives are pro-destruction and violence, therefore they protest anything that is sane. Although I think one of the key things they have trouble with is the fact that the president is too dark-skinned for their taste...
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The Snake Brotherhood
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Postby The Snake Brotherhood » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:03 pm

Hear, hear. Now we're getting into deeper waters...

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Ferrisev
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Postby Ferrisev » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:03 pm

Hitchensland wrote:Have you ever read a newspaper before? Conservatives bitch about everything. Conservatives are pro-destruction and violence, therefore they protest anything that is sane. Although I think one of the key things they have trouble with is the fact that the president is too dark-skinned for their taste...


It depend's on the type of conservative you're dealing with. But i'd say a part of that is correct. Faux news would fall under the example you gave.
Last edited by Ferrisev on Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:04 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:I loved the technical aspect of the movie. Absolutely incredible.

I gave a massive eyeroll when the "these guys messed up the green on thier planet and want to do it here" line. This is more liberal green "worship the earth" crap. "Save the trees, kill the children" kind of thing.

I will watch it again probably, I am just disappointed at the propaganda.

i am afraid that crappy dialogue like that will make me rant. pretty pictures just arent enough for me.


The way I see it:

Starwars was a massive step forward for movies.
Jurassic park was the same way.
Avatar is just as groundbreaking as Star Wars and Jurassic Park. This is the new standard. Take a look at the "Alice in Wonderland" trailer in 3d.
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Dimoniquid
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Postby Dimoniquid » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:05 pm

EvilDarkMagicians wrote:All those accusation were a load of trollop, as I'm sure you know. ;)

True. But hey, at least you didn't swear!

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:06 pm

Maybe I'm crazy, but somehow I get the feeling that the only people who think this(or indeed, most blockbusters) is propaganda are just looking for a reason to disparage some group they disagree with.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:06 pm

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:I loved the technical aspect of the movie. Absolutely incredible.

I gave a massive eyeroll when the "these guys messed up the green on thier planet and want to do it here" line. This is more liberal green "worship the earth" crap. "Save the trees, kill the children" kind of thing.

I will watch it again probably, I am just disappointed at the propaganda.

i am afraid that crappy dialogue like that will make me rant. pretty pictures just arent enough for me.


The way I see it:

Starwars was a massive step forward for movies.
Jurassic park was the same way.
Avatar is just as groundbreaking as Star Wars and Jurassic Park. This is the new standard. Take a look at the "Alice in Wonderland" trailer in 3d.

the way *I* see it is that cameron made "titanic" the most unwatchable blockbuster ever.
whatever

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KiloMikeAlpha
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Postby KiloMikeAlpha » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:09 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:
KiloMikeAlpha wrote:I loved the technical aspect of the movie. Absolutely incredible.

I gave a massive eyeroll when the "these guys messed up the green on thier planet and want to do it here" line. This is more liberal green "worship the earth" crap. "Save the trees, kill the children" kind of thing.

I will watch it again probably, I am just disappointed at the propaganda.

i am afraid that crappy dialogue like that will make me rant. pretty pictures just arent enough for me.


The way I see it:

Starwars was a massive step forward for movies.
Jurassic park was the same way.
Avatar is just as groundbreaking as Star Wars and Jurassic Park. This is the new standard. Take a look at the "Alice in Wonderland" trailer in 3d.

the way *I* see it is that cameron made "titanic" the most unwatchable blockbuster ever.



Titanic was not very good IMO. It was a 3 hour chick flick. Avatar blows Titanic out of the water a hundred fold.
If I was a dinosaur I'd be an Asskickasaurus. I have a rare form of tourrettes, I get the urge to complement people who are BSing me.
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