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Does The U.S. Government Truly have "Checks and Balances"?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who should hold more power?

Congress
1
25%
The President
0
No votes
The Supreme Court
0
No votes
The States
1
25%
The People
2
50%
None
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 4

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Giliberafta
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Ex-Nation

Does The U.S. Government Truly have "Checks and Balances"?

Postby Giliberafta » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:02 pm

The Constitution of the United States of America sets examples for checks and balances to occur between the Congress, the President, the Supreme Court, and even the states. But therr has been made loopholes in the Constitution that has caused one branch, or the states, in a time period to become more powerful than the others. So, who is more powerful than the other and why?
Last edited by Giliberafta on Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:03 pm

The states aren't a branch of government.
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The Serbian Empire
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Postby The Serbian Empire » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:07 pm

I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.

Geilinor wrote:The states aren't a branch of government.

I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.
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The Sotoan Union
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Sotoan Union » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:09 pm

It does, it really does.

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Geilinor
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Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:10 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.

Geilinor wrote:The states aren't a branch of government.

I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.

The states still aren't a branch of government, like the legislative, executive, and judicial branches are.
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Giliberafta
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Postby Giliberafta » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:19 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.


I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.

The states still aren't a branch of government, like the legislative, executive, and judicial branches are.


That's true, but the point I'm making is sometimes the state's power may supersede the federal government's power.

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Divair2
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Ex-Nation

Postby Divair2 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:19 pm

Obviously.

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Giliberafta
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Ex-Nation

Postby Giliberafta » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:20 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.


I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.

The states still aren't a branch of government, like the legislative, executive, and judicial branches are.


That's true, but the point I'm making is sometimes the state's power may supersede the federal government's power.

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The Serbian Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Serbian Empire » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:20 pm

Geilinor wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.


I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.

The states still aren't a branch of government, like the legislative, executive, and judicial branches are.

They're a defacto branch otherwise the US would be a unitary government much like most of the world without the states being a separate branch with the ability to supersede the federal government in restrictions.
Last edited by The Serbian Empire on Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Klishi Islands
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Postby The Klishi Islands » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:28 pm

I think a "The People" option should be added to the poll, as for the most part (and as dictated by the tenth amendment) responsibilities need to be left to the populace.
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Giliberafta
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Ex-Nation

Postby Giliberafta » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:29 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.

Geilinor wrote:The states aren't a branch of government.

I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.


You make a valid point but the president is the one who enforces the decesion. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Native Americans may stay in their land if they chose to regarding the Indian Removal Act. Andrew Jackson decline to enforce the decision, thus it resulted into the Trail of Tears, a long trek to the Indian Territory (now Oklahoma).

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Geilinor
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Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:31 pm

Giliberafta wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.


I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.


You make a valid point but the president is the one who enforces the decesion. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Native Americans may stay in their land if they chose to regarding the Indian Removal Act. Andrew Jackson decline to enforce the decision, thus it resulted into the Trail of Tears, a long trek to the Indian Territory (now Oklahoma).

What Andrew Jackson did wasn't legal. The government has to do with the Supreme Court says.
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:32 pm

Giliberafta wrote:The Constitution of the United States of America sets examples for checks and balances to occur between the Congress, the President, the Supreme Court, and even the states. But therr has been made loopholes in the Constitution that has caused one branch, or the states, in a time period to become more powerful than the others. So, who is more powerful than the other and why?


maybe the President in foreign policy?

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Giliberafta
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Ex-Nation

Postby Giliberafta » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:33 pm

The Klishi Islands wrote:I think a "The People" option should be added to the poll, as for the most part (and as dictated by the tenth amendment) responsibilities need to be left to the populace.


I like that. I'll add it right now.

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Geilinor
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Ex-Nation

Postby Geilinor » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:34 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Giliberafta wrote:The Constitution of the United States of America sets examples for checks and balances to occur between the Congress, the President, the Supreme Court, and even the states. But therr has been made loopholes in the Constitution that has caused one branch, or the states, in a time period to become more powerful than the others. So, who is more powerful than the other and why?


maybe the President in foreign policy?

But the Senate has to ratify treaties.
Last edited by Geilinor on Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Serbian Empire
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Serbian Empire » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:37 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Giliberafta wrote:
You make a valid point but the president is the one who enforces the decesion. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Native Americans may stay in their land if they chose to regarding the Indian Removal Act. Andrew Jackson decline to enforce the decision, thus it resulted into the Trail of Tears, a long trek to the Indian Territory (now Oklahoma).

What Andrew Jackson did wasn't legal. The government has to do with the Supreme Court says.

The problem is the Supreme Court was probably afraid of Ol' Hickory!
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Giliberafta
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Ex-Nation

Postby Giliberafta » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:42 pm

The Serbian Empire wrote:
Geilinor wrote:What Andrew Jackson did wasn't legal. The government has to do with the Supreme Court says.

The problem is the Supreme Court was probably afraid of Ol' Hickory!


Plus it was popular among the American people at that time to push the Native Americans out of their land.

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Greed and Death
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Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:26 pm

Geilinor wrote:The states aren't a branch of government.

He said branch or the states. He is acknowledging there are checks and balances between the states and federal government and there are checks and balances between the branches of the federal government.
Last edited by Greed and Death on Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Greed and Death
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Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:48 pm

Giliberafta wrote:
The Serbian Empire wrote:I think the real check of political power can be found with the Supreme Court's ability to sunder and strike laws from the books based on interpretation of the US Constitution.


I think the Tenth Amendment might disagree with all powers the Federal Government doesn't have fall to the states. That means the states and local governments can make laws that would potentially stretch beyond what the Federal levels can do such as limit soft drink sizes for example.


You make a valid point but the president is the one who enforces the decesion. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Native Americans may stay in their land if they chose to regarding the Indian Removal Act. Andrew Jackson decline to enforce the decision, thus it resulted into the Trail of Tears, a long trek to the Indian Territory (now Oklahoma).

That is not what Worcester v. Georgia, 31 U.S. (6 Pet.) 515 Said.
Chief Justice John Marshall laid out in this opinion the relationship between the Indian Nations and the United States is that of nations. He argued that the United States, in the character of the federal government, inherited the rights of Great Britain as they were held by that nation. Those rights, he stated, are the sole right of dealing with the Indian nations in North America, to the exclusion of any other European power, and not the rights of possession to their land or political dominion over their laws. He acknowledged that the exercise of conquest and purchase can give political dominion, but those are in the hands of the federal government and not in the hands of the individual states.



Scotus said the federal government not the states can make treaties (cheat out of land) with the natives. Andrew Jackson in making a bogus treaty was following the letter of the supreme court ruling when he removed the Indians for Georgia.
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Dyakovo
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Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:25 pm

Giliberafta wrote:Does The U.S. Government Truly have "Checks and Balances"?

Yes.
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Orham
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Postby Orham » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:58 pm

Which branch is most powerful of all? Well...it depends on how you look at it. The power of judicial review gives the US federal supreme court the power to nullify acts of Congress if they're deemed inconsistent with the federal constitution, so that might be put forward as a reason that the USSC is the most powerful. And then there's to take into consideration that informal amendments are a thing, again putting points toward the federal supreme court.

But then there's that whole thing about Congress being directly involved in the amendment process, and therefore the process which directly dictates what the document the federal supreme court is able to work with says. So that might be a point toward Congress. There's also to take into consideration that the USA cannot declare war without the consent of Congress, and that the Executive has a time limit on how long engagements may continue without said consent. The supreme court, meanwhile, has more or less no say in the matter whatsoever.

But then there's the Executive, which is directly responsible for enacting policy. Its major advantage is that it can decide how to enact policy, and those implied powers don't hurt either. Meanwhile, Congress is able to override the Executive's veto power, and the supreme court may officially order the executive to cease in a particular activity (or compel them to action).

...I'm beginning to suspect there isn't actually a "most powerful" branch of the US federal government at all, and that each carries distinct advantages and disadvantages. Or, to put it another way: there is absolutely a functional separation of powers in the US.
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