American Democracy? Land of the Free? Truly?

[Enfaru]

Discuss?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

A recent study has indicated that the Land of the Free hasn't been, Free or Democratic for quite some time. This isn't particularly news to me either. While I thought that America was swayed by corporate greed and I didn't think it was swayed quite so much. It was my opinion that fundamentally America was democratic and would follow the will of the electorate but this study is clear, only 18% of the time do the people on lower levels of income get the policies they are in favour of enacted.

One of that 18% would probably be the Healthcare reform package I would suspect, but then I've seen a lot of media with republicans up in arms about it...but then...isn't that the problem? Who do the republicans represent?

Do you think America is democratic? What about after reading the article?

[The Liberated Territories]

Discuss?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

A recent study has indicated that the Land of the Free hasn't been, Free or Democratic for quite some time. This isn't particularly news to me either. While I thought that America was swayed by corporate greed and I didn't think it was swayed quite so much. It was my opinion that fundamentally America was democratic and would follow the will of the electorate but this study is clear, only 18% of the time do the people on lower levels of income get the policies they are in favour of enacted.

One of that 18% would probably be the Healthcare reform package I would suspect, but then I've seen a lot of media with republicans up in arms about it...but then...isn't that the problem? Who do the republicans represent?

Do you think America is democratic? What about after reading the article?

America was not "fundamentally democratic." Democracy didn't come until later. America was founded on the principles of a constitutional republic. Democracy is only the means, not the ends.

[Santa Lucania]

Compared to many countries around the world were very democratic I'd put us in the top 50 for most democratic.

[Nervium]

I'm not surprised actually.

[Zonolia]

Despite the hate for our system, the United States is a very democratic nation. Albeit it's policies are not favorable to some, it has managed to maintain it's system for a while now with no major anti-democratic movement.

[America Libertaria]

Does America have free and open elections? Yes. Are our elections burdened with heavy fraud? No. Do politicians put out fake election results? No. America is free and democratic by definition. Sadly, there's too much money in politics and we should have a constitutional limits on donations and a ban on gifts and contributions from corporations. However, this doesn't change the fact that we are free and democratic.

[Destiny Island]

Weeeeeeeellllllll, for the most part I guess. I have this to say:
Such corruption
much partisanship
wow

[Trelso]

I wasn't aware that being an Oligarchy prevented you from being a Democracy. The people of America do enjoy extensive freedoms, and whilst it's little secret that the so called 'oligarchs' do have a massive say in the course of US policy, I think it's hard to claim that the US government does not at least vaguely attempt to uphold it's people's rights and freedoms.

Wow I'm defending the US system that I'm normally so critical of...

[Marcurix]

Does America have free and open elections? Yes. Are our elections burdened with heavy fraud? No. Do politicians put out fake election results? No. America is free and democratic by definition. Sadly, there's too much money in politics and we should have a constitutional limits on donations and a ban on gifts and contributions from corporations. However, this doesn't change the fact that we are free and democratic.

Well actually some of those things would be in dispute.

Can one claim free and open elections when there is extensive Gerrymandering in the system? Can one claim its a free and open system when the voting process heavily favours the two current parties?

As the link already provided, it was the "duh" report.

[Destiny Island]

Does America have free and open elections? Yes. Are our elections burdened with heavy fraud? No. Do politicians put out fake election results? No. America is free and democratic by definition. Sadly, there's too much money in politics and we should have a constitutional limits on donations and a ban on gifts and contributions from corporations. However, this doesn't change the fact that we are free and democratic.

Well actually some of those things would be in dispute.

Can one claim free and open elections when there is extensive Gerrymandering in the system? Can one claim its a free and open system when the voting process heavily favours the two current parties?

As the link already provided, it was the "duh" report.

Didn't Bush get elected while Gore won the popular vote? If crap like this happens there is something wrong with the US.

[Margno]

Sample size seems a little on the small side.

[Ikania]

It is democratic but it can seem unfairly democratic at times. For example there's no requirements for impartial juries in many states, leading to a lot of cases of bias. Along with the terrible electoral system, which put the worst President into Office when he lost a clear majority. A reform would definitely be nice, but that's not quite at the top of America's priority list, which is mainly;

1. Get oil.
2. Stop ebul commie librul muslim turrists
3. Pay off debt Stop the President from doing anything good.
4. Gib free guns 4 all de peoplez.

[Baader-Meinhof Gruppe]

Well actually some of those things would be in dispute.

Can one claim free and open elections when there is extensive Gerrymandering in the system? Can one claim its a free and open system when the voting process heavily favours the two current parties?

As the link already provided, it was the "duh" report.

Didn't Bush get elected while Gore won the popular vote? If crap like this happens there is something wrong with the US.

No. Bush was actually appointed, not elected. In the event of an election that is too close to call the vote goes to the House. It did not do this even though the Constitution says it has to. Bush never actually elected, merely appointed. He would have won the House, without a doubt, but the vote in the House never happened so the entire election is null and void while Bush's presidency is not as it did indeed happen.

[Cyyro]

Yeah, it's still free. Not as free as it should be, like the two party system for example, but is still freer than plenty of other countries.

[Cyyro]

It is democratic but it can seem unfairly democratic at times. For example there's no requirements for impartial juries in many states, leading to a lot of cases of bias. Along with the terrible electoral system, which put the worst President into Office when he lost a clear majority. A reform would definitely be nice, but that's not quite at the top of America's priority list, which is mainly;

1. Get oil.
2. Stop ebul commie librul muslim turrists
3. Pay off debt Stop the President from doing anything good.
4. Gib free guns 4 all de peoplez.

Aren't leftist supposed to be tolerant? You don't seem to be a very tolerant person..judging by your signature.

[Lolloh]

I think the US is generally free, but it's probably going to be like Jim Crow South soon, except with poor being squashed.

My reasons? Well, there's voter ID laws, whose only change is to make it harder for poor people to vote, as well as continuing racism and the Supreme Court's decision that corruption is only a bribe. Trying to arrest and probably sentence to life Edward Snowden for doing something I would consider patriotic isn't helping.

I give us until maybe 2100 until poverty becomes so crushing that we get a Bolshevik-style revolution, maybe as early as 2050 if things are bad, though you can bet on more wars and reforms as distractions.

[Cyyro]

I think the US is generally free, but it's probably going to be like Jim Crow South soon, except with poor being squashed.

My reasons? Well, there's voter ID laws, whose only change is to make it harder for poor people to vote, as well as continuing racism and the Supreme Court's decision that corruption is only a bribe. Trying to arrest and probably sentence to life Edward Snowden for doing something I would consider patriotic isn't helping.

I give us until maybe 2100 until poverty becomes so crushing that we get a Bolshevik-style revolution, maybe as early as 2050 if things are bad, though you can bet on more wars and reforms as distractions.

Yeah no.

[Thafoo]

It is democratic but it can seem unfairly democratic at times. For example there's no requirements for impartial juries in many states, leading to a lot of cases of bias. Along with the terrible electoral system, which put the worst President into Office when he lost a clear majority. A reform would definitely be nice, but that's not quite at the top of America's priority list, which is mainly;

1. Get oil.
2. Stop ebul commie librul muslim turrists
3. Pay off debt Stop the President from doing anything good.
4. Gib free guns 4 all de peoplez.

Aren't leftist supposed to be tolerant? You don't seem to be a very tolerant person..judging by your signature.

I love it when you use "tolerant" like that means we're not allowed to strongly dispute opinions originating from the other side of the aisle.

[Viritica]

Oh, please.

Speak for yourself, Britain.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

America was never the land of the free to begin with. Back when the US got independence, native Americans were heavily discriminated against (#IndianRemovalAct). From the time the US got independence up until the 1960s, Africans were heavily discriminated against. From the 1880s to the 1940s, Chinese people were actively discriminated against by the US government (#ChineseExclusionAct). Even today, LGBT people are discriminated against in the US. America was never the land of the free to begin with. America might be democratic, but democracy has absolutely nothing to do with freedom or rights.

[The Scientific States]

We are a democratic country. Just because we have some corruption, it doesn't make us un-democratic.

[-The Unified Earth Governments-]

The US is a democracy, but as a product of the Human race it is not even close to being perfect, thats a fact of every government so far.

The best course to go for is to get money out of politics, and to do that!....

#WolfPAC lol...

[Starkmoor]

Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance, such as regular elections, freedom of speech and association and a widespread (if still contested) franchise. But we believe that if policymaking is dominated by powerful business organisations and a small number of affluent Americans, then America's claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened.

Agreed 100%.

The US is a total oligarchy. Sure, we may vote for our representatives, but do we have much influence over their policies or who gets to be the candidates in the first place? Not really. Our system is completely governed by money and if you don't have millions to donate to politicians then you just don't count.

People have been sounding the alarm about the ramifications of our wealth inequality on representative democracy for years. We shouldn't say we weren't warned.

[Marcurix]

Oh, please.

Speak for yourself, Britain.

The study was done in Princeton.

[Shilya]

Nothing new here. Doesn't make the US less of a democracy, really.

If the people think that electing those following the will of the few is the best for the country, well, that's their choice. If they're too dumb to realize it, then they sort of deserve it. And if they wanted their influence back, they could start voting differently.

Let's take a look at what John Steinbeck has to say, because I think it's relevant as well:

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

I don't even know who that guy is, but it sums up another part of the problem. Someone who thinks they might strike it anyday will be more likely to vote for his future, rich self.