NationStates

Cognigotoapagawayiagan wrote:Global Climate Change doesn't exist. It is just a pattern in weather that happens every once in a while. We just don't have enough data from the past to prove that Climate Change exists. Think of the period between the two ice ages. Couldn't that have been a temporary change in conditions? It's just a weather pattern.

Of course it has happened in the past; and generally when that happened a lot of people died. I would personally rather avoid that situation when we have 7 billion people around.

Great Nepal wrote:

Cognigotoapagawayiagan wrote:Global Climate Change doesn't exist. It is just a pattern in weather that happens every once in a while. We just don't have enough data from the past to prove that Climate Change exists. Think of the period between the two ice ages. Couldn't that have been a temporary change in conditions? It's just a weather pattern.

Of course it has happened in the past; and generally when that happened a lot of people died. I would personally rather avoid that situation when we have 7 billion people around.

Considering seven billion and rapidly growing is severe overpopulation...

Yep, lets continue to ignore inconvenient evidence until we're all dead. Papa needs a new car. *nods*

Cognigotoapagawayiagan wrote:Global Climate Change doesn't exist. It is just a pattern in weather that happens every once in a while. We just don't have enough data from the past to prove that Climate Change exists. Think of the period between the two ice ages. Couldn't that have been a temporary change in conditions? It's just a weather pattern.

Umm...

That is global climate change.

If the climate of the world changes, then that makes it global climate change.

You're talking about whether an anthropogenic cause of climate change exists or not.

But don't worry guys, the free market and capitalism will sort it out somehow, with the help of the free market fairy, zombie raegan, and stock broker jesus.

Ostroeuropa wrote:But don't worry guys, the free market and capitalism will sort it out somehow, with the help of the free market fairy, zombie raegan, and stock broker jesus.

And the invisible hand.

Great Nepal wrote:

Cognigotoapagawayiagan wrote:Global Climate Change doesn't exist. It is just a pattern in weather that happens every once in a while. We just don't have enough data from the past to prove that Climate Change exists. Think of the period between the two ice ages. Couldn't that have been a temporary change in conditions? It's just a weather pattern.

Of course it has happened in the past; and generally when that happened a lot of people died. I would personally rather avoid that situation when we have 7 billion people around.

High stakes. We must do better than we have done before.

And we will do better. With better tools we can do a better job. With ever better tools,

Great Nepal wrote:If we are suggesting changing earth's topography in such large way by triggering nuclear winter or pumping Sulphur Dioxide, wouldn't it be much better to build a giant semi-spherical mirror to reflect sun's light at all times? If temperature gets too low, we flick a switch and open one or more of the mirror windows to let in light.

I don't think we have the resources to do that though. Unless we started colonizing Mars and mining asteroids, tech that's almost a century away.

The Fascist American Empire wrote:

Great Nepal wrote:If we are suggesting changing earth's topography in such large way by triggering nuclear winter or pumping Sulphur Dioxide, wouldn't it be much better to build a giant semi-spherical mirror to reflect sun's light at all times? If temperature gets too low, we flick a switch and open one or more of the mirror windows to let in light.

I don't think we have the resources to do that though. Unless we started colonizing Mars and mining asteroids, tech that's almost a century away.

We could do it now. It's just expensive and we can't really be bothered.
I'd argue we should be colonizing the ocean beforehand anyway, as it'll allow us to experiment in the social structure of enclosed colonies, net us more wealth/resources in the meantime, develop tech usable in space colonization, and be far, far less dangerous.

(A broken colony base on mars is basically fucked unless they hold on for a year or so. A broken colony base in the ocean can be rescued if they can just hold on for a few hours.)

That allows us to work out the kinks.
Plus, development of undersea colonies would allow us to put funds into the industries necessary for space colonization. After a while, those lobbies will do the job for us.
Billion dollar industries pressuring the government to expand into mars and such.



Undersea colonization could also be the answer to renewable energy, with the undersea colonies being the major producers of electricity from thermal vents, and hydroelectricity.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

The Fascist American Empire wrote:I don't think we have the resources to do that though. Unless we started colonizing Mars and mining asteroids, tech that's almost a century away.

We could do it now. It's just expensive and we can't really be bothered.
I'd argue we should be colonizing the ocean beforehand anyway, as it'll allow us to experiment in the social structure of enclosed colonies, net us more wealth/resources in the meantime, develop tech usable in space colonization, and be far, far less dangerous.

(A broken colony base on mars is basically fucked unless they hold on for a year or so. A broken colony base in the ocean can be rescued if they can just hold on for a few hours.)

That allows us to work out the kinks.
Plus, development of undersea colonies would allow us to put funds into the industries necessary for space colonization. After a while, those lobbies will do the job for us.
Billion dollar industries pressuring the government to expand into mars and such.



Undersea colonization could also be the answer to renewable energy, with the undersea colonies being the major producers of electricity from thermal vents, and hydroelectricity.

Good idea. And I've heard that there have been experiments on enclosed colonies before, but obviously on land. I was watching this thing on the science channel talking about possible Mars colonies and it said that there was one very successful dome experiment here on Earth. The only problem was that the concrete was improperly mixed and absorbed all the oxygen, something that an undersea colony could fix by separating the hydrogen from the oxygen in water.

Deep ocean exploration isn't that relevant to space exploration...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RLOo6bchU

Imperializt Russia wrote:Deep ocean exploration isn't that relevant to space exploration...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RLOo6bchU

The pressure change is a major difference yes.
What is similar is temperature regulation, oxygen generation, security of the dome from terrorist attacks, self-sufficiency, etc.

The Fascist American Empire wrote:Good idea. And I've heard that there have been experiments on enclosed colonies before, but obviously on land. I was watching this thing on the science channel talking about possible Mars colonies and it said that there was one very successful dome experiment here on Earth. The only problem was that the concrete was improperly mixed and absorbed all the oxygen, something that an undersea colony could fix by separating the hydrogen from the oxygen in water.

IIRC, splitting water into its constituent components is one of the hardest things to do in chemistry. And, of course, incredibly energy intensive.

Hydroelectricity doesn't work by just having water. You have to force water through a turbine system. Hydroelectric projects on land traditionally work by dropping water in huge quantities under gravity over turbines. Example, Dinorwig and most dams.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:Deep ocean exploration isn't that relevant to space exploration...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RLOo6bchU

The pressure change is a major difference yes.
What is similar is temperature regulation, oxygen generation, security of the dome from terrorist attacks, self-sufficiency, etc.

If "terrorists" can somehow get to either deep-sea or Martian facilities, heroin makes more money than anyone ever thought.

Like, more money than the banking industry.

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
The pressure change is a major difference yes.
What is similar is temperature regulation, oxygen generation, security of the dome from terrorist attacks, self-sufficiency, etc.

If "terrorists" can somehow get to either deep-sea or Martian facilities, heroin makes more money than anyone ever thought.

Like, more money than the banking industry.

Not all terrorists are muslim from heroin countries. There is the issue of home grown terrorists. Any long-term colony needs to consider that problem.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:If "terrorists" can somehow get to either deep-sea or Martian facilities, heroin makes more money than anyone ever thought.

Like, more money than the banking industry.

Not all terrorists are muslim from heroin countries. There is the issue of home grown terrorists. Any long-term colony needs to consider that problem.

How the shit is any "home-grown" terrorist going to get to Mars with two tons of fertiliser?
Or to the bottom of the ocean?

Home grown terrorists today do seem to still be bankrolled (where applicable) by the drugs trade anyway - much of which stems from the poppy harvest.

When will this be by?

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Not all terrorists are muslim from heroin countries. There is the issue of home grown terrorists. Any long-term colony needs to consider that problem.

How the shit is any "home-grown" terrorist going to get to Mars with two tons of fertiliser?
Or to the bottom of the ocean?

Home grown terrorists today do seem to still be bankrolled (where applicable) by the drugs trade anyway - much of which stems from the poppy harvest.

Home-grown as in grown in the colony. (I thought that would be obvious, but I remembered i'm talking to forced labor isn't forced labor man.) Are you saying that no terrorist ever acted alone disconnected from the drug network?

Well then. It seems your objections were entirely off point.

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Great Nepal wrote:Of course it has happened in the past; and generally when that happened a lot of people died. I would personally rather avoid that situation when we have 7 billion people around.

Considering seven billion and rapidly growing is severe overpopulation...

You have some sauce for this overpopulation claim right?

Blakk Metal wrote:My impromptu research finds the claim of the op to be nonsense.

So the Great Lakes will be like Eritrea or Venezuela in the summer and similar to a mild to average winter in Michigan today in 300 years. Now that's actually scarier to think that it could be in the 20s in the winter for highs just to see an average temperature in the 90s all day long in the summer. At least it won't be -25 ever again!

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:

Viritica wrote:*shrugs*

Sure, let me just pull out my wallet and give NASA a few billion dollars.

You obviously didn't read my damn post since you don't understand what the hell I was talking about.

Okay...lets take this slower...so you can catch up here buddy, I may have not specified or I may have blown past the marker, so as to amend the issue I will be specific on something.

....Who...do you think...will do the funding....how do you think they will do it and why?

.....Because the Government won't just do it out of thin fucking air.....they will need a reason to spend that money on NASA more than say...the military.

Give them an incentive, you know?

Jesus......

I'm sorry, but what marvels do you expect NASA to preform when they have shit funding?

Clearly you think money just appears out of thin air so tell me, what marvels shall NASA be preforming so they can earn that funding?

The government doesn't wanna fund NASA.

Here, let me slow that down for you.

The grubberment... doesn't wanna... fund NASA... anymore.

Comprendo?

But warming 7-21 degrees Celsius is not going to happen any time soon.

Cognigotoapagawayiagan wrote:Global Climate Change doesn't exist. It is just a pattern in weather that happens every once in a while.

Considering how the global climate changes every once in a "while", you just disproved yourself.

We just don't have enough data from the past to prove that Climate Change exists.

We do.

Think of the period between the two ice ages.

Aka the current period. We're in an interglacial. Didn't you notice?

Couldn't that have been a temporary change in conditions?

Temporary on what time scale? What is a fleeting moment in Earth's history is thousands of human generations. Well, no, actually the whole existence of the Homo genus is a fleeting moment in Earth's history.

It's just a weather pattern.

A weather pattern that lasts centuries or millennia is climate, duh.

Senkaku wrote:But warming 7-21 degrees Celsius is not going to happen any time soon.

And it's based on a growth as usual pattern when the oil will run out in 100 to 150 years. Once that happens, CO2 production will drop-off dramatically.