The eroding influence of the left

[Unitaristic Regions]

I'm not so sure about the correctness of this statement, but to me it always seemed to me that all the parties are simply becoming more moderate. Politics is getting boring...

[Arumdaum]

I'm not so sure about the correctness of this statement, but to me it always seemed to me that all the parties are simply becoming more moderate. Politics is getting boring...

The definition of what's moderate changes with the time and setting.

[Senkaku]

I would argue the contrary, at least when talking about here in 'Murica. As the right wing becomes increasingly extreme to try and win voters back, people are turning to a more moderate and less fractured left wing. In Europe, despite increasingly vocal minorities, socialism is quite dominant. It seems more like the OP is talking about the decline of Communism than the decline of the left as a whole.

[Arumdaum]

Denmark, #1 in the contest for happiness among capitalist nations.

What would abandoning capitalism accomplish for them?

World communism would help erode racism, sexism, and eliminate class discrimination, as there would be no classes.

People who suffer from discrimination such as nonwhites, women, and the LGBT community would feel less insecure about themselves.

There would be no real reason to go to war, people would not exploit others for their labor, people will not feel inadequate for being nowhere as wealthy as others, numerous items would have longer lives (many items don't last very long so you can keep buying the products of companies), there wouldn't be instances of people with lots of wealth having a lot more political influence than those who don't, etc.

[Brickistan]

It has to be said that Denmark is not a capitalistic state in the same sense as we usually regard America. We're basically capitalistic, yes, but with strong regulations, strong unions, and a big welfare state all interacting to keep big business in check.

Indeed, we typically consider ourselves social-democratic rather than capitalistic.

Private property = capitalism.

It's great that Denmark is such a great place to live and all, but it's by definition still a capitalist society.

And I never said that we weren't, just that we're not what you would typically think of as "capitalistic" when debating US-version capitalism.

By the simple definition, most countries in the world are basically capitalistic. There are, however, large differences in the size of the government and the way it operates.

[Greater Mackonia]

Good riddance to the creed of mediocrity and resentment.

Not that I prefer Capitalism much more, but it is the lesser of two evils.

[Sanguinea]

What would abandoning capitalism accomplish for them?

World communism would help erode racism, sexism, and eliminate class discrimination, as there would be no classes.

People who suffer from discrimination such as nonwhites, women, and the LGBT community would feel less insecure about themselves.

There would be no real reason to go to war, people would not exploit others for their labor, people will not feel inadequate for being nowhere as wealthy as others, numerous items would have longer lives (many items don't last very long so you can keep buying the products of companies), there wouldn't be instances of people with lots of wealth having a lot more political influence than those who don't, etc.

How naive, people will always feed a reason to go to war.

[Greater Mackonia]

World communism would help erode racism, sexism, and eliminate class discrimination, as there would be no classes.

People who suffer from discrimination such as nonwhites, women, and the LGBT community would feel less insecure about themselves.

There would be no real reason to go to war, people would not exploit others for their labor, people will not feel inadequate for being nowhere as wealthy as others, numerous items would have longer lives (many items don't last very long so you can keep buying the products of companies), there wouldn't be instances of people with lots of wealth having a lot more political influence than those who don't, etc.

How naive, people will always feed a reason to go to war.

Furthermore this is proclaimed like its a universally beneficial thing, most of the advances of this age came about through the bitter hatred of wars and national struggle.

[Arumdaum]

World communism would help erode racism, sexism, and eliminate class discrimination, as there would be no classes.

People who suffer from discrimination such as nonwhites, women, and the LGBT community would feel less insecure about themselves.

There would be no real reason to go to war, people would not exploit others for their labor, people will not feel inadequate for being nowhere as wealthy as others, numerous items would have longer lives (many items don't last very long so you can keep buying the products of companies), there wouldn't be instances of people with lots of wealth having a lot more political influence than those who don't, etc.

How naive, people will always feed a reason to go to war.

There's hardly any wars now in comparison to the past. As we progress into the future, wars on Earth will gradually diminish, although perhaps not disappear forever.

In global communism, there'd be less reason to go to war.

[Greater Mackonia]

How naive, people will always feed a reason to go to war.

There's hardly any wars now. As we progress into the future, wars on Earth will gradually diminish, although perhaps not disappear forever.

In global communism, there'd be less reason to go to war.

Global communism would lead to a hideous dark age of humanity.

[Arumdaum]

There's hardly any wars now. As we progress into the future, wars on Earth will gradually diminish, although perhaps not disappear forever.

In global communism, there'd be less reason to go to war.

Global communism would lead to a hideous dark age of humanity.

The first human societies were technically communist.

[Greater Mackonia]

Global communism would lead to a hideous dark age of humanity.

The first human societies were technically communist.

The societies you are referring to did little beyond survive,hunt,fight and reproduce, hardly a golden age of progress is it now?

In actuality humanity's real progress began when those societies were replaced by sedentary,property-based and very much unequal and autocratic ones such as Egypt or Sumer.

[The Liberated Territories]

As a general entity, the Catholic Church, although traditional leaning, has always goodwill to all mankind through a spirit of international brotherhood and charity. Sound familiar?

On topic: I think the liberalization of the economy is a good thing, as it signals a turn to international global prosperity that will lift everyone out of poverty. We can put the pipe dream of communism to rest, and fully realize the true utopia of our time to be brought about by liberal capitalism.

On the topic of the last few sentences: No. We've been continuously liberalizing the economy and all it has signalled is a turn for the worse; poverty and the number of poor people is only rising, the number of homeless people is still staggering, and the economic liberalization is reaching further and further. On top of that, I haven't heard anything of everyone in Africa being lifted out of poverty, have you? Liberal capitalism isn't a true utopia, let me just point to you what happened when true liberal capitalism was implemented in the US in the 19th century; more than 50% of the people in poverty. That's a lot of lifting out of poverty isn't it?

http://www.ibtimes.com/africa-poised-un ... ica-worlds

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... s-in-2014/ <mostly African

In Australia:

Even with all the sh!t has transpired, economies continue to grow as they always have done in the last 100 years. Some countries with GDPs over 85-90% (e.g. Germany) have the strongest economies and the highest standards of living. If that is not pure liberal capitalism, than it is pretty damn close.

[Dejanic]

How naive, people will always feed a reason to go to war.

There's hardly any wars now in comparison to the past. As we progress into the future, wars on Earth will gradually diminish, although perhaps not disappear forever.

In global communism, there'd be less reason to go to war.

Communism will still be shitty, it will still have war, death, disease. The idea that the world will be flawless and perfect when the means of production are commonly owned is idealism, not materialism. Would it be better than Capitalism? Yes, but you have to put work into a system, you have to develop it.

[Viritica]

Has it occurred to you that, Denmark is #1 in a world with only capitalist or state capitalist countries?

Your point?

[Dejanic]

Has it occurred to you that, Denmark is #1 in a world with only capitalist or state capitalist countries?

Your point?

Well giving a list of the happiest countries under Capitalism doesn't exactly show that Capitalism makes people happy, obviously one country has to be number one. It's a pretty dishonest argument basically.

[Viritica]

Your point?

Well giving a list of the happiest countries under Capitalism doesn't exactly show that Capitalism makes people happy, obviously one country has to be number one. It's a pretty dishonest argument basically.

And clearly Arumandaum's solution is to just assume that people under socialist countries will somehow be happier.

[Estado Paulista]

I'm not really sure about Canada's manufacturing sector, but here (the US) at least, free trade has not really resulted in the death of manufacturing. Manufacturing employment has declined, and the manufacturing sector's share of total national output has fallen, so it looks like it.

Honestly, you Americans should just get over the "death of manufacturing sector". The US is a post-industrial county. As capitalism evolved, the manufacturing sector was bound to die, one way or another. Don't get me wrong, it's a true shame that areas like the Rust Belt haven't transitioned to post industrialism very smoothly, but I believe it's in America's best interests to make sure that transition occurs as smoothly as possible, instead of working to ressurect the manufacturing sector. Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to happen since "they outsourced our jobs!" is a very useful card certain populist politicians can pull out during the election season.

[Geilinor]

Global communism would lead to a hideous dark age of humanity.

The first human societies were technically communist.

Compared to the modern era, that was a dark age.

[Geilinor]

There's hardly any wars now in comparison to the past. As we progress into the future, wars on Earth will gradually diminish, although perhaps not disappear forever.

In global communism, there'd be less reason to go to war.

Communism will still be shitty, it will still have war, death, disease. The idea that the world will be flawless and perfect when the means of production are commonly owned is idealism, not materialism. Would it be better than Capitalism? Yes, but you have to put work into a system, you have to develop it.

"It will work eventually" isn't going to convince more people to become communist.

[Nervium]

Communism will still be shitty, it will still have war, death, disease. The idea that the world will be flawless and perfect when the means of production are commonly owned is idealism, not materialism. Would it be better than Capitalism? Yes, but you have to put work into a system, you have to develop it.

"It will work eventually" isn't going to convince more people to become communist.

True.
People first need to realise their own potential to create a better society.

Or some other deep saying.

[Casita]

The first human societies were technically communist.

The societies you are referring to did little beyond survive,hunt,fight and reproduce, hardly a golden age of progress is it now?

In actuality humanity's real progress began when those societies were replaced by sedentary,property-based and very much unequal and autocratic ones such as Egypt or Sumer.

What is 'real progress'? If you are referring to a dualistic notion of light and dark, then I would say, your idea of progress is not as progressive as you think. Hunter-gatherer communities progressed relatively to their intentions and surroundings, and to they way their surroundings responded, as well. Similarly, sedentary communities also progressed within intentions, surroundings and environmental responses. It is difficult to think a pyramid is any greater than a hunter-gather ritual altar.

[Dejanic]

Communism will still be shitty, it will still have war, death, disease. The idea that the world will be flawless and perfect when the means of production are commonly owned is idealism, not materialism. Would it be better than Capitalism? Yes, but you have to put work into a system, you have to develop it.

"It will work eventually" isn't going to convince more people to become communist.

That wasn't really what I was getting at, I'm just saying that people have to work and develop a system, theirs no magical cure, Capitalism didn't come along magically, it was a system that was developed through blood and turmoil and it took hundreds of years for the system to develop, the means of production weren't just taken out of feudal hands, put in private hands and that was it capitalism functions. Communism isn't an instant cure to all of societies ills, to believe that is idealistic.

[Divair2]

Not a soc-dem, please don't speak for me.
kthx

I thought you were a social democrat...

You thought wrong.

Not a soc-dem, please don't speak for me.
kthx

I'm not wrong though am I. But yeah, I won't speak for you.

I don't consider soc-dem to be socialism, yes. That part is correct. The rest ain't.

[America Libertaria]

There will be sometime where poor people's lives will suck so much, that they will get too frustrated to be brainwashed by organized religion as historically and get revolutionary once more.

We need just another liter in a 10 million gallon reservoir in Brazil for that to happen. And it will, if the people put a right-wing party at the top again and it turns out to fuck our lives just like Fernando Henrique did in the late 1990s and early 2000s. I don't want to catch dengue fever or stand to week-long blackouts again myself. In São Paulo, where they didn't transition to centre-left politics as most of the country and stayed with Fernando Henrique's party, they now are very close to not having enough water to take showers (some are already doing it in neighbor's houses) or washing their dishes.

And then the moderate liberal lack of empathy will be foolish.

It's funny because so many people have said this and yet it's never happened. Believe it or not life used to suck a LOT more for the poor a few decades ago then it does now.