Super-NATO

[Parti Ouvrier]

(Obviously the name can be changed, but it doesn't necessarily have to be.)
Should NATO be expanded in scope to no longer merely cover North America and Europe, but also to expand westwards (to potentially include Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, etc and eventually if it's feasible, India and such.) And Southwards to potentially include South American democracies?

Abolish Nato!

(Essentially, an alliance of the Westerners.)
With the slight decline in US and European power following the cold war, and the seeming rise decline in Russia and rise in Chinese power, i'm of the opinion that the hegenomic influence of the alliance must be expanded further to properly cover all western friendly nations.

Sounds destabilising to me, and fixed. Russia has been unsuccessful at transitioning to capitalism, China more so, the latter is a growing imperial power and its effectively state capitalist today, albeit, it's economy is slowing down.

We must face facts. The UN, while having done an admirable job in world health and such, is not the human rights guarantor that it was established to be. NATO as it currently stands is too weak to continue under that mantle.

The expansion of NATO would also help with global stability and security, as well as make our global power projection greater.

A nation that oppresses others cannot itself be free. And who are you talking about with this "our"?

Such an action at this time would also send a very clear message to the Russians about what their Crimean shenanigans won them. A vastly expanded NATO (Precisely the thing they were worried about in the first place, thus turning this into a strategic failure and defeat for the Russians if we explicitly said this was why we are forming super-nato.)

I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

[Imperializt Russia]

NATO should certainly be expanded to protect other nations. However, I don't want this to turn into another NATO-Warsaw Pact thing if we're going up against China and Russia.

That's basically what NATO does anyway.

[Empire of Vlissingen]

How about Democratic Alliance?

[Genivaria]

How about Democratic Alliance?

The ADN, Alliance of Democratic Nations.

[Blazedtown]

How about Democratic Alliance?

The ADN, Alliance of Democratic Nations.

Countries United to Negate Tyranny.

[Great Empire of Gamilus]

Such an action at this time would also send a very clear message to the Russians about what their Crimean shenanigans won them. A vastly expanded NATO (Precisely the thing they were worried about in the first place, thus turning this into a strategic failure and defeat for the Russians if we explicitly said this was why we are forming super-nato.)

I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

because Russia is and always will be evil in the face of 'muh democracies' and Murica etc etc cheese burger with a side of freedom.

on a more serious note, because weterners lack anyone in their end of the world to hate against and not seem like a bigot.

[Mkuki]

Yes.

Note: Who considers any country in the Americas, aside from Canada and the United States, as part of the West?

[Mkuki]

(Obviously the name can be changed, but it doesn't necessarily have to be.)
Should NATO be expanded in scope to no longer merely cover North America and Europe, but also to expand westwards (to potentially include Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, etc and eventually if it's feasible, India and such.) And Southwards to potentially include South American democracies?

Abolish Nato!

(Essentially, an alliance of the Westerners.)
With the slight decline in US and European power following the cold war, and the seeming rise decline in Russia and rise in Chinese power, i'm of the opinion that the hegenomic influence of the alliance must be expanded further to properly cover all western friendly nations.

Sounds destabilising to me, and fixed. Russia has been unsuccessful at transitioning to capitalism, China more so, the latter is a growing imperial power and its effectively state capitalist today, albeit, it's economy is slowing down.

We must face facts. The UN, while having done an admirable job in world health and such, is not the human rights guarantor that it was established to be. NATO as it currently stands is too weak to continue under that mantle.

The expansion of NATO would also help with global stability and security, as well as make our global power projection greater.

A nation that oppresses others cannot itself be free. And who are you talking about with this "our"?

Such an action at this time would also send a very clear message to the Russians about what their Crimean shenanigans won them. A vastly expanded NATO (Precisely the thing they were worried about in the first place, thus turning this into a strategic failure and defeat for the Russians if we explicitly said this was why we are forming super-nato.)

I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

Russia has almost always been the traditional "opponent" of the West. Originally for religious reasons, but now 'cuz Soviet Union legacy and Russian opposition to American global dominance.

[Lemanrussland]

Abolish Nato!



Sounds destabilising to me, and fixed. Russia has been unsuccessful at transitioning to capitalism, China more so, the latter is a growing imperial power and its effectively state capitalist today, albeit, it's economy is slowing down.



A nation that oppresses others cannot itself be free. And who are you talking about with this "our"?



I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

Russia has almost always been the traditional "opponent" of the West. Originally for religious reasons, but now 'cuz Soviet Union legacy and Russian opposition to American global dominance.

I think the geopolitical aspects are important as well. Some works which influenced American policy towards the Soviet Union/Russia (and foreign policy in general) include "The Geographical Pivot of History" by Sir Halford Mackinder, America's Strategy in World Politics: The United States and the Balance of Power by Nicholas J. Spykman, The Geography of the Peace by Spykman, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660–1783 by Alfred Mahan, and The Problem of Asia by Mahan.

Russia is basically the Eurasian land power "bad guy" envisioned in many of these works.

[Pilotto]

The ADN, Alliance of Democratic Nations.

Countries United to Negate Tyranny.

[Mkuki]

Russia has almost always been the traditional "opponent" of the West. Originally for religious reasons, but now 'cuz Soviet Union legacy and Russian opposition to American global dominance.

I think the geopolitical aspects are important as well. Some works which influenced American policy towards the Soviet Union/Russia (and foreign policy in general) include "The Geographical Pivot of History" by Sir Halford Mackinder, America's Strategy in World Politics: The United States and the Balance of Power by Nicholas J. Spykman, The Geography of the Peace by Spykman, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660–1783 by Alfred Mahan, and The Problem of Asia by Mahan.

Russia is basically the Eurasian land power "bad guy" envisioned in many of these works.

Indeed.

[Darwinish Brentsylvania]

Yes.

Note: Who considers any country in the Americas, aside from Canada and the United States, as part of the West?

Eh, geographically yes.

[Mkuki]

Yes.

Note: Who considers any country in the Americas, aside from Canada and the United States, as part of the West?

Eh, geographically yes.

I guess. That's a pretty piss poor way to identify what is and isn't part of the West, though.

[Rio Cana]

There was an article back some time ago about Latin America being Western culture.

Found it.
http://cynicsunlimited.com/2009/03/28/i ... y-western/

[Genivaria]

http://www.worldbulletin.net/african-un ... continents

Europe and Africa join forces?
Oh hell yes.

[Costa Fierro]

http://www.worldbulletin.net/african-union/132865/eu-africa-summit-vows-further-cooperation-of-two-continents

Europe and Africa join forces?
Oh hell yes.

You mean "will Europe (read France) continue to provide troops whenever x former colony decides that law and order is overrated"?

[Genivaria]

http://www.worldbulletin.net/african-union/132865/eu-africa-summit-vows-further-cooperation-of-two-continents

Europe and Africa join forces?
Oh hell yes.

You mean "will Europe (read France) continue to provide troops whenever x former colony decides that law and order is overrated"?

Not really no.

[Costa Fierro]

You mean "will Europe (read France) continue to provide troops whenever x former colony decides that law and order is overrated"?

Not really no.

That's what the status quo is and that's what will continue to happen.

[Alcase]

World Treaty Organization

oh wait...

[Genivaria]

Not really no.

That's what the status quo is and that's what will continue to happen.

If anything I see evidence of the opposite.
1. Because of growing support for the AU taking control of it's own money.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... -of-france
and 2. because the AU is showing it can get shit done militarily.
http://appablog.wordpress.com/2014/04/2 ... -republic/

[Conserative Morality]

I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

Russia's powerful and trying to assert itself as a challenger to US Power. Not many other countries have both of those to their names. China's trying to puff itself up like a bullfrog scaring away predators, and is mostly looking to integrate itself into the current international power structure and increase its share. Russia seems to think that it is the predator, and wants to turn back the clock a few decades insofar as international power balances are concerned.

Who else is there to oppose? Iran is looking to play nice with the international community again, NK isn't strong enough to try and assert itself, and Saudi Arabia is on our side, unfortunately. Who does that leave?

[Genivaria]

I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

Russia's powerful and trying to assert itself as a challenger to US Power. Not many other countries have both of those to their names. China's trying to puff itself up like a bullfrog scaring away predators, and is mostly looking to integrate itself into the current international power structure and increase its share. Russia seems to think that it is the predator, and wants to turn back the clock a few decades insofar as international power balances are concerned.

Who else is there to oppose? Iran is looking to play nice with the international community again, NK isn't strong enough to try and assert itself, and Saudi Arabia is on our side, unfortunately. Who does that leave?

Damn humanists not letting us just bomb brown people anymore, bleh.

[Mkuki]

I'll admit that Russia isn't a shinning light for freedom, but why single out Russia? Is Russia once again the "evil empire"? Should it not be Russian themselves who take care of Russia's Oligarchs? And what do you mean by Russians? Not ordinary Russians I hope.

Russia's powerful and trying to assert itself as a challenger to US Power. Not many other countries have both of those to their names. China's trying to puff itself up like a bullfrog scaring away predators, and is mostly looking to integrate itself into the current international power structure and increase its share. Russia seems to think that it is the predator, and wants to turn back the clock a few decades insofar as international power balances are concerned.

Who else is there to oppose? Iran is looking to play nice with the international community again, NK isn't strong enough to try and assert itself, and Saudi Arabia is on our side, unfortunately. Who does that leave?

Addendum on China: China does seem to be trying to challenge the Japanese-American power establishment in East Asia. As well as using less militaristic methods in order to assert its influence in Africa.

[Costa Fierro]

Who does that leave?

Potentially India and, to a lesser extent, Brazil.

[Mkuki]

Who does that leave?

Potentially India and, to a lesser extent, Brazil.

Why?