Is Banning Circumcision Xenophobic?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The point is that those US stats are generalizable to other developed nations.
And 1 death for every 10,000 circumcisions is a deplorable statistic. Especially considering the two biggest arguments for circumcision (penile cancer and STI infection) are either bunk or complete conjecture, meaning those deaths are completely and entirely avoidable.
Lets put this to rest: if your penis has never dried out, cracked and bled, then having a foreskin would not change that. On the contrary, removal of the foreskin makes a cracked and bleeding penis more likely. No foreskin results in increased tension and strain on the skin of the penis, which increase the odds that, should it become to dry, it will crack and bleed.

Circumcision doesn't prevent anything. It it is a surgery that solves a very small number of very specific medical conditions in a very few number of people.

Those are hardly deplorable statistics, nor are they generalizable for every nation. With every surgery comes risk. Even something as simple of the removal of a child's tonsils comes with risk. 1 death for every 10,000 circumcisions is quite good, especially when dealing with such a sensitive part of the body.

I'm circumcised and my penis has never cracked nor bled and I highly doubt that it will. As has been proven in this thread, scientists themselves can't actually agree on the he purpose of foreskin.

Tell that to a parent and see what their reaction is.

It is that same logic that keeps me from wanting or even giving a shit about circumcising my own children. I don't want them to be one of the unlucky ones. Even 1 in 10,000 is a great risk in my mind.

[Viritica]

Those are hardly deplorable statistics, nor are they generalizable for every nation. With every surgery comes risk. Even something as simple of the removal of a child's tonsils comes with risk. 1 death for every 10,000 circumcisions is quite good, especially when dealing with such a sensitive part of the body.

I'm circumcised and my penis has never cracked nor bled and I highly doubt that it will. As has been proven in this thread, scientists themselves can't actually agree on the he purpose of foreskin.

I sort of feel that the burden of proof should be on the people who want to cut bits off children to show it's necessary.

Proof has already been provided. Like, a million fucking times over. Go back and find it.

[Pandeeria]

You missed the main point of my post.
Try again.

NAZIS. Sorry, once you say that word (or more accurately acronym, but whatever), especially in a positive respect, you've lost the argument. Doesn't matter who you're talking to.

Mentioning nazis doesn't make you loose the argument. Try again.

[Dalcaria]

Those are hardly deplorable statistics, nor are they generalizable for every nation. With every surgery comes risk. Even something as simple of the removal of a child's tonsils comes with risk. 1 death for every 10,000 circumcisions is quite good, especially when dealing with such a sensitive part of the body.

I'm circumcised and my penis has never cracked nor bled and I highly doubt that it will. As has been proven in this thread, scientists themselves can't actually agree on the he purpose of foreskin.

I think that it might have served a purpose when man was evolving, but now… well, it's just gone the way of the appendix, almost useless.

Agreed. Very possible it was intended to keep dirt or something from getting to he penis, but we have clothes now......

[Viritica]

Those are hardly deplorable statistics, nor are they generalizable for every nation. With every surgery comes risk. Even something as simple of the removal of a child's tonsils comes with risk. 1 death for every 10,000 circumcisions is quite good, especially when dealing with such a sensitive part of the body.

I'm circumcised and my penis has never cracked nor bled and I highly doubt that it will. As has been proven in this thread, scientists themselves can't actually agree on the he purpose of foreskin.

Tell that to a parent and see what their reaction is.

It is that same logic that keeps me from wanting or even giving a shit about circumcising my own children. I don't want them to be one of the unlucky ones. Even 1 in 10,000 is a great risk in my mind.

If the parents don't want their child circumcised then so be it. No one's forcing them to do anything.

[The Four Taxmen of the Apocalypse]

I'm tired of winning arguments. I'm looking to loose an argument. Any takers?

[Viritica]

I'm tired of winning arguments. I'm looking to loose an argument. Any takers?

Please take your arrogance somewhere else.

[Dalcaria]

I'm tired of winning arguments. I'm looking to loose an argument. Any takers?

Well this thread has now gone the way of Godwin's Law, so I'm not sure if you'll end up losing at all.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Those are hardly deplorable statistics, nor are they generalizable for every nation. With every surgery comes risk. Even something as simple of the removal of a child's tonsils comes with risk. 1 death for every 10,000 circumcisions is quite good, especially when dealing with such a sensitive part of the body.

I'm circumcised and my penis has never cracked nor bled and I highly doubt that it will. As has been proven in this thread, scientists themselves can't actually agree on the he purpose of foreskin.

I think that it might have served a purpose when man was evolving, but now… well, it's just gone the way of the appendix, almost useless.

The appendix has a role in certain digestive cultures I think I read last time I did some research on the topic.

And well, the foreskin is basically an evolutionary trait to protect the glans penis from the elements and the acidity of the amniotic fluid and uterus/vagina in developmental stages. Again, don't take me at word, it's been a while since I have studied it in detail.

[Kyuji]

I'm tired of winning arguments. I'm looking to loose an argument. Any takers?

Dorsal cuts are in most cases, where circumcision is recomended, just as effective as circumcisions

[Forsakia]

I sort of feel that the burden of proof should be on the people who want to cut bits off children to show it's necessary.

Proof has already been provided. Like, a million fucking times over. Go back and find it.

Hardly, at very best you've gotten a draw (and that's being kind), certainly haven't demonstrated medically beneficial justification for it and have avoided arguments about risk with the response that it hasn't happened to you (i.e. missing the point of risk).

[Saiwania]

If the parents don't want their child circumcised then so be it. No one's forcing them to do anything.

It depends where you are in the world. In places where male circumcision is common, a hospital might circumcise your male child without your consent because it is assumed that it is what should be done by default, that it has to be opt out when it ought to be a procedure which is opt in. Insurance policies in some US states are choosing to not cover circumcision and make it an upfront cost, so this is less of a problem in those states.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I think that it might have served a purpose when man was evolving, but now… well, it's just gone the way of the appendix, almost useless.

Agreed. Very possible it was intended to keep dirt or something from getting to he penis, but we have clothes now......

And several of us live in places where tarmac is more common than dirt.

Although, it may have had something to do as well with the climate: humidity and heat spread airborne vectors like fungi and bacteria; which is something common in Africa where the first humans are purported to have come from.

[Dalcaria]

Agreed. Very possible it was intended to keep dirt or something from getting to he penis, but we have clothes now......

And several of us live in places where tarmac is more common than dirt.

Although, it may have had something to do as well with the climate: humidity and heat spread airborne vectors like fungi and bacteria; which is something common in Africa where the first humans are purported to have come from.

Yeah, I think here we've got an odd mixture of things. Lots of sand some times of year though, and we aren't in the desert.

Ah, that all makes some sense. I suspect there would have been threats like that in the Middle East as well, near the "Cradle of Life" (Euphrates and Tigris rivers I think), or perhaps some kinds of bugs. Lots of different possibilities.

[Greater Femocracy]

If the parents don't want their child circumcised then so be it. No one's forcing them to do anything.

Many thanks for the grant!

[Viritica]

If the parents don't want their child circumcised then so be it. No one's forcing them to do anything.

It depends where you are in the world. In places where male circumcision is common, a hospital might circumcise your male child without your consent because it is assumed that it is what should be done by default, that it has to be opt out when it ought to be a procedure which is opt in. Insurance policies in some US states are choosing to not cover circumcision and make it an upfront cost, so this is less of a problem in those states.

I'm pretty sure doing something like that without the parent's consent is illegal.

[Saiwania]

I'm pretty sure doing something like that without the parent's consent is illegal.

Illegal stuff happens all the time and sure, you could sue a doctor or hospital for this happening; but unless you can afford a good attorney to win a case against a medical center which likely has more monetary resources- good luck with that.

[Dalcaria]

It depends where you are in the world. In places where male circumcision is common, a hospital might circumcise your male child without your consent because it is assumed that it is what should be done by default, that it has to be opt out when it ought to be a procedure which is opt in. Insurance policies in some US states are choosing to not cover circumcision and make it an upfront cost, so this is less of a problem in those states.

I'm pretty sure doing something like that without the parent's consent is illegal.

In Canada and most European countries, most likely. I have no idea how it works in the US though. Also, a nurse or a doctor who up and decided to do one anyways might do it, but that would be illegal still and they would (hopefully) be fired and banned from working in hospitals. Hopefully.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

And several of us live in places where tarmac is more common than dirt.

Although, it may have had something to do as well with the climate: humidity and heat spread airborne vectors like fungi and bacteria; which is something common in Africa where the first humans are purported to have come from.

Yeah, I think here we've got an odd mixture of things. Lots of sand some times of year though, and we aren't in the desert.

Ah, that all makes some sense. I suspect there would have been threats like that in the Middle East as well, near the "Cradle of Life" (Euphrates and Tigris rivers I think), or perhaps some kinds of bugs. Lots of different possibilities.

There's also another hypothesis that stipulates that the foreskin aids in the capturing of certain hormones that promote protective behavior in males (http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 009-9567-6) Not sure how accurate that is though.

[Dalcaria]

I'm pretty sure doing something like that without the parent's consent is illegal.

Illegal stuff happens all the time and sure, you could sue a doctor or hospital for this happening; but unless you can afford a good attorney to win a case against a medical center which likely has more monetary resources- good luck with that.

I'm pretty sure you could just take the case to the police in most cases and just have the charged criminally. Also, in Canada we have Legal Aid which is supposed to help low income persons go to court. Of course, I don't believe I've heard of many (or any) cases like this, so I'm assuming that means most doctors and nurses in Canada have not done a circumcision without the parent's consent.

[Dalcaria]

Yeah, I think here we've got an odd mixture of things. Lots of sand some times of year though, and we aren't in the desert.

Ah, that all makes some sense. I suspect there would have been threats like that in the Middle East as well, near the "Cradle of Life" (Euphrates and Tigris rivers I think), or perhaps some kinds of bugs. Lots of different possibilities.

There's also another hypothesis that stipulates that the foreskin aids in the capturing of certain hormones that promote protective behavior in males (http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 009-9567-6) Not sure how accurate that is though.

That's ironic since I'm cut, yet I can get pretty protective at times! Granted, I'm not some protein pounding, muscle covered beast, nor do I get into any fights, so I am somewhat tempered if you will. Still, an interesting theory nonetheless!

[Benuty]

NAZIS. Sorry, once you say that word (or more accurately acronym, but whatever), especially in a positive respect, you've lost the argument. Doesn't matter who you're talking to.

Mentioning nazis doesn't make you loose the argument. Try again.

Thats it I am calling Godwin.

[Viritica]

I'm pretty sure doing something like that without the parent's consent is illegal.

Illegal stuff happens all the time and sure, you could sue a doctor or hospital for this happening; but unless you can afford a good attorney to win a case against a medical center which likely has more monetary resources- good luck with that.

That really wouldn't be too hard of a case.

[Viritica]

Mentioning nazis doesn't make you loose the argument. Try again.

Thats it I am calling Godwin.

Who cares?

[Benuty]

Thats it I am calling Godwin.

Who cares?

You obviously do since you posted a response like the shifty little red velvet pseudo ant you are. Yes I am onto your little tricks you hissing pest you exoskeleton brier patch you. Now crawl back in to that patch of grass you call hell and hiss some more.