Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[United Marxist Nations]

Because the workers produced the industrial material necessary for the functioning of society.

That would be the farmers and people from the agricultural sector. Have you ever read Hegel?

See my previous post about machinery making an entire class of peasantry unnecessary. Seriously, just look at the ratio of farmers to total population in any country, and you will see that such a large peasantry is wholly unnecessary.

[Slavonian kingdom]

That would be the farmers and people from the agricultural sector. Have you ever read Hegel?

See my previous post about machinery making an entire class of peasantry unnecessary. Seriously, just look at the ratio of farmers to total population in any country, and you will see that such a large peasantry is wholly unnecessary.

Regardless of how much peasants produce food without them there would not be any. Besides, how do you explain that Marx basically has stolen his whole knowledge from Hegel?

[Tmutarakhan]

See my previous post about machinery making an entire class of peasantry unnecessary. Seriously, just look at the ratio of farmers to total population in any country, and you will see that such a large peasantry is wholly unnecessary.

Regardless of how much peasants produce food without them there would not be any. Besides, how do you explain that Marx basically has stolen his whole knowledge from Hegel?

Except for the knowledge of how to write convincingly. Have you ever (tried to) read Hegel?

[United Marxist Nations]

See my previous post about machinery making an entire class of peasantry unnecessary. Seriously, just look at the ratio of farmers to total population in any country, and you will see that such a large peasantry is wholly unnecessary.

Regardless of how much peasants produce food without them there would not be any. Besides, how do you explain that Marx basically has stolen his whole knowledge from Hegel?

If we can make having to have most of our population grow its own food obsolete, we should.

Hegel's dialectic was idealistic, Marx's was materialist. Marx goes on at length about Hegel, identifying him as his inspiration.

[Slavonian kingdom]

Regardless of how much peasants produce food without them there would not be any. Besides, how do you explain that Marx basically has stolen his whole knowledge from Hegel?

Except for the knowledge of how to write convincingly. Have you ever (tried to) read Hegel?

Yes, I did. You cannot understand him without somebody explaining the point of what he tried to say. The will and all the other like Apstract law.

[Slavonian kingdom]

Regardless of how much peasants produce food without them there would not be any. Besides, how do you explain that Marx basically has stolen his whole knowledge from Hegel?

If we can make having to have most of our population grow its own food obsolete, we should.

Hegel's dialectic was idealistic, Marx's was materialist. Marx goes on at length about Hegel, identifying him as his inspiration.

You do know Hegel was actually the first who divided tge society on burgeious and proletariat?

Yeah, Hegel though that his age was the end of all philosphy

[United Marxist Nations]

If we can make having to have most of our population grow its own food obsolete, we should.

Hegel's dialectic was idealistic, Marx's was materialist. Marx goes on at length about Hegel, identifying him as his inspiration.

You do know Hegel was actually the first who divided tge society on burgeious and proletariat?

Yeah, Hegel though that his age was the end of all philosphy

Hegel didn't divide society, he just wrote about the divisions in society. And what does any of this have to do with the War in Donbass?

[Shofercia]

It already is imperialist; the question is not whether it is imperialist, but which is the lesser of two evils here, and the answer to that is Russia, in this regard.

My friend. My dear friend, I think you are terribly, no, sorry, extremely terribly mistaken in this regard right here. In Ukraine there exist fascists, yes, and yes, fascists are a bad thing. But, my friend, believe me here. Have you ever heard of the Russian National Unity? Pamyat? The National-Bolshevik Party? The National-Bolshevik Front? Aleksandr Dugin? Do you believe, that the Right Sector and Svoboda will shrink if Russia takes more of Ukraine, especially in this time of war? No. If Russia were to steal more land, the Right Sector and Svoboda would not shrink, even if they would be banned. They would rise in popularity. All they would do is rise, rise up in popularity as their nation is being humiliated by Russians who don't even believe Ukraine exists. And you, sir, you claim to be a socialist? You claim to be a socialist while supporting a nation full of people that doesn't even acknowledge the very existence of another people? Good sir, you need to read Socialism For Dummies!

Dugin again? I like how the leader of Neo-Nazis, Tighnyabok, was specifically mentioned by Nuland as the "top 3", but Dugin, who's nowhere near that powerful in Russia, (unless we're talking about beard rallies,) is somehow trotted out as a scarecrow, as if he has enough power to change Russia's foreign policy. The parties that you name have virtually no effect on governance in Russia. Like URF, they're idiots, relegated to the dustbin of history. On the other hand, Right Sector and Svoboda are going to grow irrespective of what Russia does, because when the economy tanks, radicalism increases. Furthermore, we acknowledge the existence of another people. We also point out, that, factually, the borders of modern Ukraine were drawn by the Communist leaders, who sucked at drawing borders. We want these people to decide the fate of their country, irrespective of what Oligarchs want, even if said Oligarchs have backing in Brussels and Washington.

Now. Sir, let me just back this up, there is a large amount of Ukrainophobia within Russia. Some Russians don't even acknowledge the very existence of the Ukrainian nation. This is a people you support? And also, let us not forget, the men who are in or around the governments of the separatists, Putin's government, et al. First off, let's start with mister Aleksandr Dugin. Aleksandr Dugin is the notorious ideologist of the National Bolshevik Front and Eurasia Party, and is known to have supported a Russian Empire "from Dublin to Vladivostok". That's just one man within the Russian government. Yes, in Russia, there's fascists in the government, on the contrary to Ukraine, where they're in parliament (which also is visible in many Western nations. BNP or NDP, anyone?). And who do you think is involved in the separatist insurgency?

Dugin again. Seriously? Do I need to start parodying those posts by replacing Russia with US and Dugin with the Grand KKK Wizard? Let's take a look at the actual polls that you cited: http://www.levada.ru/press/2009062305.html

First, that poll was made in 2009. Second, 80 percent of Russians stated that Ukraine should be independent. That tidbit, was of course omitted from Wikidorkia. The anti-Ukrainian attitude that's mentioned, stems from the very same politicians who witnessed Kiev's illegal seizure of Sevastopol in the 1990s. Wikidorkia also claims that the Orenburg media poorly portrays Shevchenko, while forgetting to mention to mention that Moscow's provides him with a good portrayal. Maybe in Wikidork World Orenburg's more important, but in the real World, that's Moscow. Also, Dugin isn't in the Russian Government. Dugin also pushed for the Russians to occupy Tbilisi, something that was thoroughly rejected, although Russian tourists have indeed occupied said city at a later date. They vacated it though. Dugin takes popular ideas, (Russia is a Eurasian country,) twists them, and then takes credit for them. But his actual ideas, (as opposed to the ideas that he plagiarized,) hold little value in Russia. I've told Melas/Drako the same thing before the whole Ukrainian crisis started.

Now, if there is anyone who even dares to come even close to claiming that Russia is the lesser evil in this war, then I will shove this post in their faces until they realise that Russia is the worse evil in this entire war, and that the supporting of the Ukrainian independence struggle is essential to humanity, to human dignity and human rights.

As for you, United Marxist Nations, I highly suggest you read Socialism For Dummies, because I am sadly disappointed. I thought you, as a socialist, knew better. Seems not.

You're welcome to be doing lots of pushing and shoving all you like, but when you deny the people the right to vote in the name of independence, you're still denying the people the right to vote.

[Lyttenburg]

For all people still believing that Ukrainian army and the National Guard are as pure and innocent as baby's tear. For all those incapable of using SEARCH function on NS or, who list this beast as their personal totem – I just leave it all here, and if you can’t find it – your problems.

1) Destructions.

No matter what - some people still believe that Ukrainian modern artillery tactic (aka "more Dakka!") is 146% safe and didn't kill civilians - and even if civilians are killed, that makes them terrorist.

- Town of Novosvetlovka was recently recaptured from pro-Kiev forces. Now it looks like this. Hardly even one house remained intact.

- In Makejevka Ukrainian artillery destroyed city courthouse. Thankfully, no one was killed or injured.

- Town Schastye shelled by National Guard's "Grads.". Probably - by the infamous "Aidar" battalion which is closest to it. By the way - locals recount how they were robbed by the "liberators" of "Aidar"

- Ukrainian army still shells Donetsk. On 29 August in Kuybishevkij district as the result of artillery fire 2 civillians were killed. In another district were damaged a school and a kindergarten.

2) Ukrainian prisoners.

If you don't believe "Kremlenite propaganda", then listen to the Ukrainian troopers now taken prisoners. There so many of them now (and it's rather obvious who are they), that dismissing all of that as fakes can only truly pig-headed morons.

UPD: - Even Ukrainian Government finally released the "officila" number of troopers taken prisioner - 700.

- Ukrainian servicemen, captured during the attempt to break through the encirclement: "There were 150 of us. Remained only 17. Rest are dead."

- Captured Ukrainian troopers are forced to apologize before citizens of town Snezhnoje. Say, that they didn't want to shell civilians, that they were mobilized against their will.

- Wounded DPR soldier, who've witnessed enemy troops surrender at Ilovaysk: Right Sector members of the National guard shot at their comrades in arms who attempted to surrender. According to him due to this crossfire (Right Sector fanatics on one side, Novorossiya militia - on other) out of all battalion's 350 men survived only 23.

- Captured Ukrainian National Guardsmen cries. They are forced to look at their "work" - shelled houses and school in Donetsk. Say, they "didn't know" and beg for forgiveness.

- Large group of pro-Kiev's troopers taken prisoner..

- An Interview with captured lieutenant-colonel of the Ukrainian Air force, who's SU-25 was shot down near Marinovka on July 21. Says, they were "misinformed" and due to that bombed civilians in cities.

- As we know so well, Ukrainians lately are very fond of their battle-chant - "Хто не скачет той москаль!" ("Who's not jumping is Moscal!"). Now - captured Ukrainian POWs are forced to jump, but in captivity they do it not so lively as they did on Maydan,

- Destroyed and captured Ukrainian army vehicles.

- After Ilovaysk was re-captured and Pro-Kiev forces taken prisoner, People Republic's forces delivered humanitarian aid to its residents. There are still no water and electricity in town.

3) Aftermath of battle for Khryaschivate.

Your "typical" battle (if such thing even exist) of this war, and its aftermath, as recounted by survivors - to get a picture of what is going on.

- Tanks abandoned by the Ukrainians right in the middle of the village. Tanks were placed there by pro-Kiev forces not because of the great advantage - but to avoid shelling by Novorossiya militias.

- An Ukrainian tank destroyed on a road.

- Lugansk militiaman and locals explain what Khryaschivate had to endure. Locals survived for 20 days hiding in cellars, while Ukrainian army shelled their village with "GRADS" and artillery. Tank shown in the beginning - DPR one, destroyed August 17, crew died.

4) Trophies.

As the result of counter-offensive, now forces of Novorossiya possess a lot of abandoned Ukrainian hardware.

- A video of entire road littered with abandoned or destroyed Ukrainian military vehicles.

- They even abandoned SPA "Akacia".

- Downed Ukrainian MI-8.

5) Other side of conflict.

- Videothat confirms the fact of desertion of entire 5th battalion of "Prikarpatia".

- Poroshenko government sends fresh forces and reinforcement to the Frontlines! Mainly, teenagers, National Guard fresh out of boot-camp. No, really - they are hardly older than 20.

- Even oh-so-favorite by the Westerners here "Vice News" (for whom this is the only kosher news about the Ukraine) slips info, that Ukrainians are torturing captured enemy.

P.S. Banderites stand no chance - as Russian super science managed to clone Stalin!

[United Marxist Nations]

I like the photo of those (presumed) comrades at the end; I assume they are communists, since they like Stalin, which means they have my support.

EDIT: And the other things you posted in that post were pretty good too, thank you for bringing them to light.

[Estruia]

Now, if there is anyone who even dares to come even close to claiming that Russia is the lesser evil in this war, then I will shove this post in their faces until they realise that Russia is the worse evil in this entire war, and that the supporting of the Ukrainian independence struggle is essential to humanity, to human dignity and human rights.

As for you, United Marxist Nations, I highly suggest you read Socialism For Dummies, because I am sadly disappointed. I thought you, as a socialist, knew better. Seems not.

You're welcome to be doing lots of pushing and shoving all you like, but when you deny the people the right to vote in the name of independence, you're still denying the people the right to vote.

Clearly, we must emulate the great Democracy of Russia, where 144% of Russians are allowed to vote!

[Malgrave]

I like the photo of those (presumed) comrades at the end; I assume they are communists, since they like Stalin, which means they have my support.

EDIT: And the other things you posted in that post were pretty good too, thank you for bringing them to light.

It is quite fascinating and hilarious to see someone that has completely accepted events from Russian state media.

[United Marxist Nations]

I like the photo of those (presumed) comrades at the end; I assume they are communists, since they like Stalin, which means they have my support.

EDIT: And the other things you posted in that post were pretty good too, thank you for bringing them to light.

It is quite fascinating and hilarious to see someone that has completely accepted events from Russian state media.

I don't completely accept things from their point of view; I acknowledge that Russia has sent troops to Ukraine, and all sorts of other things, I just support the insurgency because of the new Ukrainian governments hostility toward the communists.

[Lyttenburg]

Meanwhile - in Minsk began the talks between the Ukrainian government and representativeso of People republics

In Minsk, the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics urged Kiev to acknowledge their "special status," saying that in return the republics would not lay claim to other parts of Ukraine.

The initial statement said the republics want to "to preserve Ukraine's common economic, cultural and political space and the space of the entire Ukraine-Russian civilization."

The Moscow-based news agency RT said the statement was initially interpreted as the rebels seeking autonomy within Ukraine while wishing to remain part of it.

However, Donetsk Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin told RT that the statement was about "the common security space of Ukraine, Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, about post-war reconstruction of the economic, cultural, and social connections with Ukraine, and also about the fact that the (republics) wouldn't lay claim to other Ukrainian territories."

Source.

This is actually a major breakthough - the Ukraine finally started talking with rebels.

Should they began this talks a week earlier, before humiliating defeat of pro-Kiev forces during the Novorossiyan counter offensive... Oh, who I'm kidding here! This talks became only possible thnks to this counter offensive.

[United Marxist Nations]

Hopefully the talks will happen work, as they seem the best hope for a peaceful resolution; after all, I'd rather not trade the siege of Donetsk for the Siege of Mariupol (although Mariupol could be difficult for the Ukrainians to hold, as it has lots of sympathizers to the separatists).

[Organized States]

Though I have to say, them working it out is a good thing.

But didn't Kiev offer this months ago?

[United Marxist Nations]

Though I have to say, them working it out is a good thing.

But didn't Kiev offer this months ago?

It offered them amnesty, it didn't offer any special status.

[Malgrave]

It is quite fascinating and hilarious to see someone that has completely accepted events from Russian state media.

I don't completely accept things from their point of view; I acknowledge that Russia has sent troops to Ukraine, and all sorts of other things, I just support the insurgency because of the new Ukrainian governments hostility toward the communists.

I'm just not impressed with someone posting links of Ukrainian POW's being mistreated and seeming rather pleased about said poor treatment. I've got insanely crappy internet at the moment so I have only looked at a few of those videos but they don't seem to show extensive losses for urban combat using Soviet era-vehicles. (especially when the insurgents are being co-ordinated, trained, equipped and directly supported by Russian forces) ANNA in Syria has plenty of videos that show the huge losses that can be expected when attacking a heavily fortified urban area.

[Malgrave]

Though I have to say, them working it out is a good thing.

But didn't Kiev offer this months ago?

It offered them amnesty, it didn't offer any special status.

I thought increased regional autonomy was offered?

[United Marxist Nations]

It offered them amnesty, it didn't offer any special status.

I thought increased regional autonomy was offered?

Not that I'm aware of.

[Lyttenburg]

After elimination of another "pocket of resistance" (or of котёл/cauldron, in Russian military tradition) in Amvrosievka, militiamen got their hands on lot and lots of new trophies (more Dakka, indeed!)

Video.

Replenishing their loses both in soldiers, equipment, ammo and vehicles would be... probably, nearly impossible for the Ukrainian government. Also, the fact that pro-Kiev forces abandon so much hardvare intact while retreating in panic speak volumes about their morale and organization

[Shofercia]

You're welcome to be doing lots of pushing and shoving all you like, but when you deny the people the right to vote in the name of independence, you're still denying the people the right to vote.

Clearly, we must emulate the great Democracy of Russia, where 144% of Russians are allowed to vote!

I'd much prefer the referendum to resemble the Californian Proposition Process, since a referendum is much closer to a proposition, than it is to a presidential/parliamentary election. But hey, you just took another potshot at Russia, cookie?

[Malgrave]

I thought increased regional autonomy was offered?

Not that I'm aware of.

an unspecified form of autonomy was offered several months ago

[Shofercia]

Not that I'm aware of.

an unspecified form of autonomy was offered several months ago

Yeah, about that: Under the agreement, all parties, including separatists and their Russian backers, would stop violent and provocative acts, and all illegal groups would be disarmed.

After which Kiev legalized the groups that were fighting for their side, effectively killing any chance for peace.

[United Marxist Nations]

Not that I'm aware of.

an unspecified form of autonomy was offered several months ago

I didn't see any offer of autonomy in there, could you find the paragraph?