Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Shofercia]

Far-rightists and far-leftists fighting on the same side, Jesus.

How dare do people not adhere to random categories that they were placed in, without their consent? Preposterous! /sarcasm

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I confess my general ignorance of this affair, but is there anything more to this than Russia wanting to reconquer all of Eastern Europe?

[Organized States]

I confess my general ignorance of this affair, but is there anything more to this than Russia wanting to reconquer all of Eastern Europe?

This is more of them trying to keep their sphere of influence alive.

[Shofercia]

I confess my general ignorance of this affair, but is there anything more to this than Russia wanting to reconquer all of Eastern Europe?

The Czech Republic and Slovakia, who actually know what a Russian reconquest looks like, are against sanctioning Russia over Ukraine. The only countries whose leadership even entertains such fantasies are Poland and the Baltics.

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

I confess my general ignorance of this affair, but is there anything more to this than Russia wanting to reconquer all of Eastern Europe?

The Czech Republic and Slovakia, who actually know what a Russian reconquest looks like, are against sanctioning Russia over Ukraine. The only countries whose leadership even entertains such fantasies are Poland and the Baltics.

The Poles are sensible people, maybe there's something in it.

[Shofercia]

The Czech Republic and Slovakia, who actually know what a Russian reconquest looks like, are against sanctioning Russia over Ukraine. The only countries whose leadership even entertains such fantasies are Poland and the Baltics.

The Poles are sensible people, maybe there's something in it.

The Poles and Russians are sensible people, but their governments aren't sensible when it comes to talking about one another. There's somewhat of a history there, dating back to 1610

[Malgrave]

an unspecified form of autonomy was offered several months ago

I didn't see any offer of autonomy in there, could you find the paragraph?

It was snuck in at the end of the article. As I believe that giving more autonomy to the East of Ukraine and other parts of the country would require some form of constitutional reform....but then i'm not an expert on the constitution of Ukraine

It voiced support for the constitutional reform process currently underway in Ukraine, and insisted that it be “inclusive, transparent and accountable.” The process, it said, “will include the immediate establishment of a broad national dialogue, with outreach to all of Ukraine’s regions and political constituencies, and allow for the consideration of public comments and proposed amendments.

The PM also made the offer quite a while ago (as you can tell) here and here

[Shofercia]

I didn't see any offer of autonomy in there, could you find the paragraph?

It was snuck in at the end of the article. As I believe that giving more autonomy to the East of Ukraine and other parts of the country would require some form of constitutional reform....but then i'm not an expert on the constitution of Ukraine

It voiced support for the constitutional reform process currently underway in Ukraine, and insisted that it be “inclusive, transparent and accountable.” The process, it said, “will include the immediate establishment of a broad national dialogue, with outreach to all of Ukraine’s regions and political constituencies, and allow for the consideration of public comments and proposed amendments.

The PM also made the offer quite a while ago (as you can tell) here and here

That says nothing. It's a dialogue that could, or could not end up with autonomy:

The officials asked Yatsenyuk to allow referenda on autonomy for their regions, not on secession.

He didn't say "yes". Also, they wanted autonomy within a Federalized Ukraine, since autonomy within a unified Ukraine can be lost at a moment's notice. The Autonomous Republic of Crimea had less rights in a Unified Ukraine, then Krasnodar Krai has in Russia, and I'm not even comparing those to the autonomous rights of the Dagestan Republic.

[Shofercia]

Anyways, these are the current demands that I've seen circulating on RuNet, and the ones that I posted earlier:

1. Self-determination, fully democratic votes in the DonBass Republic and Crimea
2. Federalization of Ukraine, Swiss style
3. Joint economic package, Russia to Novorossiya, US/EU to Rump Ukraine
4. Punish war criminals for crimes they committed
5. Self-determination, fully democratic vote in Moldova
6. Russian as official language in all former SSRs with significant Russian populations
7. Massive suppression of Svoboda, Right Sector, and their allies

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Anyways, these are the current demands that I've seen circulating on RuNet, and the ones that I posted earlier:

1. Self-determination, fully democratic votes in the DonBass Republic and Crimea
2. Federalization of Ukraine, Swiss style
3. Joint economic package, Russia to Novorossiya, US/EU to Rump Ukraine
4. Punish war criminals for crimes they committed
5. Self-determination, fully democratic vote in Moldova
6. Russian as official language in all former SSRs with significant Russian populations
7. Massive suppression of Svoboda, Right Sector, and their allies

Seems like little more than a slightly more heavy handed version of American Imperialism.

[Shofercia]

Anyways, these are the current demands that I've seen circulating on RuNet, and the ones that I posted earlier:

Seems like little more than a slightly more heavy handed version of American Imperialism.

How so?

1 and 5 - seem really democratic, and they are.
2 - tough shit, maybe that one, but it's not like Ukraine's got a choice.
3 - It's aid, so hardly imperialistic.
4 and 7 - I don't see how punishing those who burn others alive is imperialistic.
6 - Would be imperialistic, if the demand was for Russian being the sole, official language, however that is clearly NOT the case. You can have more official languages than one. California has two, we're doing fine. Adding Russian to your queue of official languages doesn't limit others in any way, shape or form.

Again, we're back to 2. Now, if you have a plan to fix Ukraine's economy without that one, I'm all ears.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Far-rightists and far-leftists fighting on the same side, Jesus.

How dare do people not adhere to random categories that they were placed in, without their consent? Preposterous! /sarcasm

I'm a little puzzled by the Swedish nazi who apparently considers Ukrainians white, but not Russians.

[Shofercia]

How dare do people not adhere to random categories that they were placed in, without their consent? Preposterous! /sarcasm

I'm a little puzzled by the Swedish nazi who apparently considers Ukrainians white, but not Russians.

Carl Bildt?

[Nationes Pii Redivivi]

Seems like little more than a slightly more heavy handed version of American Imperialism.

How so?

1 and 5 - seem really democratic, and they are.
2 - tough shit, maybe that one, but it's not like Ukraine's got a choice.
3 - It's aid, so hardly imperialistic.
4 and 7 - I don't see how punishing those who burn others alive is imperialistic.
6 - Would be imperialistic, if the demand was for Russian being the sole, official language, however that is clearly NOT the case. You can have more official languages than one. California has two, we're doing fine. Adding Russian to your queue of official languages doesn't limit others in any way, shape or form.

Again, we're back to 2. Now, if you have a plan to fix Ukraine's economy without that one, I'm all ears.

1. seems like the interventionist bullshit that America's tried pulling.
2. Ukraine is an independent nation, and, unless there is some compelling reason, there is no reason for Russia to determine its government type and structure. It is odd how they can Russia can claim to be for the self-determination of some groups, but then deny that to others.
3. Economic Imperialism is also American style bullshit. We tried that with Haiti and several other nations already, it doesn't work.
4. Great, we can agree with that. Now, who are the war criminals?
5. Sure, but why convert Ukraine to a government of Russia's choosing?
6. It seems to be cultural imperialism, because this is imposed from the outside, rather than by the consent of the people in those nation.
7. Why not simply state that all terrorist groups be punished rather than those few?

[Shofercia]

How so?

1 and 5 - seem really democratic, and they are.
2 - tough shit, maybe that one, but it's not like Ukraine's got a choice.
3 - It's aid, so hardly imperialistic.
4 and 7 - I don't see how punishing those who burn others alive is imperialistic.
6 - Would be imperialistic, if the demand was for Russian being the sole, official language, however that is clearly NOT the case. You can have more official languages than one. California has two, we're doing fine. Adding Russian to your queue of official languages doesn't limit others in any way, shape or form.

Again, we're back to 2. Now, if you have a plan to fix Ukraine's economy without that one, I'm all ears.

1. seems like the interventionist bullshit that America's tried pulling.
2. Ukraine is an independent nation, and, unless there is some compelling reason, there is no reason for Russia to determine its government type and structure. It is odd how they can Russia can claim to be for the self-determination of some groups, but then deny that to others.
3. Economic Imperialism is also American style bullshit. We tried that with Haiti and several other nations already, it doesn't work.
4. Great, we can agree with that. Now, who are the war criminals?
5. Sure, but why convert Ukraine to a government of Russia's choosing?
6. It seems to be cultural imperialism, because this is imposed from the outside, rather than by the consent of the people in those nation.
7. Why not simply state that all terrorist groups be punished rather than those few?

1. Hardly, since unlike America, Russia isn't bombing Kiev, and it's as democratic as you can get, without the bombs
2. There's a very compelling reason: without it, Ukraine's economy will crash and Ukraine will fall apart
3. If Kiev doesn't want it, fine
4. That's to be determined by joint committees
5. It's about Moldova, and it's as democratic as you can get
6. Cultural Imperialism?
7. Hence the "and their allies", because I didn't want to research and list every single one on a mere proposal

[Robanov]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/eu-to-slap-new-sanctions-on-russia-as-poroshenko-calls-conflict-threat-to-europe/article20286558/
Ukraine says Russian tanks flatten town.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/vladimir-putin-calls-for-talks-on-statehood-in-southeast-ukraine-1.2751779
Vladimir Putin calls for talks on 'statehood' in southeast Ukraine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/01/nato-ukraine_n_5749262.html
NATO To Create 'Spearhead' Rapid Reaction Force In Response To Ukraine Crisis.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/30/eu-russia-ultimatum_n_5742328.html
EU Gives Russia Ultimatum: Pull Back In Ukraine Or Face Sanctions

http://rt.com/politics/172556-russia-sanctions-pushkov-usa/
Top [Russian] parliamentarian vows to thwart US plans to isolate Russia

Several news reports about recent situations that have occurred in the Ukraine Crisis. With Russia, in some way or another, not slowing down its support for the Ukrainian separatists against Kiev, I wonder what The West will do next to try and stand up to Putin. Sanctions have taken place, Russia has been successfully isolated in some aspects, and I even believe some Western states have been supplying the Ukrainian military with military hardware and supplies.

What do you think, dear comrades of nation states, that the West should do next to show Putin that they really mean it when they say “Leave Ukraine Alone”?

In my opinion, I like the idea of having a NATO Rapid Reaction Force (RRF) inside Ukraine. Now, I really go against using the RRF to help Kiev push back the separatists, but we can at least keep the RRF in Kiev to warn Russia that any more funny business would result in attacking NATO troops, and result in a Russian-caused conflict. Maybe that will keep Putin from doing any other “escalating” moves?

I really don’t think the sanctions have worked at all. The EU is suffering from these sanctions as badly as Russia. Why can’t the EU just shift its trades with the US? Sure, I believe that its easier with Russia since there isn’t an entire ocean dividing them, but wouldn’t that isolate Russia more from Europe and leave it in the Asian sphere? It would look bad for Putin by the Russian view, seeing that Russia is getting way more isolated than the trouble is worth.

Horrible idea, but I’m no international crisis expert.

What do you guys think?

[Galloism]

Is assassinate Putin and replace him with a CIA puppet on the table?

[Shofercia]

Is assassinate Putin and replace him with a CIA puppet on the table?

Nope. CIA puppets don't know the art of Russian cursing

[Union of Kiwi Socialists]

More sanctions that do not work!

[Blazedtown]

Outlaw Russian forever.

[Robanov]

Is assassinate Putin and replace him with a CIA puppet on the table?

Wouldn’t that be hard to do? Seeing he has an 85% popularity rate among his fellow people? Besides, he must already have a plan over who will succeed him.

[Galloism]

Outlaw Russian forever.

The bombings will begin in 5 minutes.

[Shofercia]

Outlaw Russian forever.

Cho tuy skazal?

[Pandeeria]

Condemn Russia, cut off non-essential trade, sanctions, and stuff.

In reality, no one can actually really do anything about it.

Also, get into more Twitter fights about it with the Russian government.

[Union of Kiwi Socialists]

Outlaw Russian forever.

'My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.' - Ronald Reagan.