Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Deusaeuri]

Quite simply, the vote was rigged. Only the Russian-speakers and ethnic Russians were allowed to cast votes (and they aren't exactly the same thing)

Where do you base that on? As far as i know all people in Crimea where allowed to vote, including non-Russian speakers, Tatars and Ukrianians.

It doesn't help that most Crimeans speak Russian and are ethnic Russians.

[Sdaeriji]

To be honest I think Russia has a point in that the current govenrment of Ukraine is in fact illeligatimate and the only reason anyone is bothering to listen to what they're saying is because it is a govenrment that supports the West.

There's also the angle of NATO playing the isolation of Russia role as though Russia is supposed to lay down in take it. I mean remember NATO's true purpose to keep Russia contained which is why NATO countries always support any entity that stands up against Russia, except Arab nations. NATO probably wishes they could help Chechnya but that would require them to get on Russian soil and it'd would be pretty much a declaration of war on Russia and would play well with the Russian public. Why do you think the international community is pretty much silent on that issue with Russia?

Do I agree with Russian is doing? No. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend the US and its EU allies are somehow on some moral high ground either. The US is more pissed at the fact that Russia is doing something it feels only it has the right to do: occupy other countries under the guise of self defense. US is probably even more pissed at the fact that the Russian military got there first and so quickly at that so any remote idea of some kind of miltary deterrance is out the door because that would risk a nasty conflict.

When was the last time the United States annexed part of a sovereign nation?

[Benuty]

To be honest I think Russia has a point in that the current govenrment of Ukraine is in fact illeligatimate and the only reason anyone is bothering to listen to what they're saying is because it is a govenrment that supports the West.

There's also the angle of NATO playing the isolation of Russia role as though Russia is supposed to lay down in take it. I mean remember NATO's true purpose to keep Russia contained which is why NATO countries always support any entity that stands up against Russia, except Arab nations. NATO probably wishes they could help Chechnya but that would require them to get on Russian soil and it'd would be pretty much a declaration of war on Russia and would play well with the Russian public. Why do you think the international community is pretty much silent on that issue with Russia?

Do I agree with Russian is doing? No. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend the US and its EU allies are somehow on some moral high ground either. The US is more pissed at the fact that Russia is doing something it feels only it has the right to do: occupy other countries under the guise of self defense. US is probably even more pissed at the fact that the Russian military got there first and so quickly at that so any remote idea of some kind of miltary deterrance is out the door because that would risk a nasty conflict.

When was the last time the United States annexed part of a sovereign nation?

Do you really need to ask?

[Michijo]

Amnesty International, a trustworthy source of information, has run an article about how the Fascist bullies Svoboda have attacked the head of Ukrainian National TV. It could be that Americans are also jingoist bullies and so they cater to fascist groups in Europe. Of course Europeans generally support fascists where applicable, Croatian Ustashies, etc. Western Europeans have generally shown dislike for Orthodox Christianity. This is connected to the dislike of Russia.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/amnesty-intern ... be-1440987

I have found the Crimean War interesting. I guess that was sort of a Holy War where the west didnt like Russia, not because they were commies, but because they were Orthodox Christians. Before we hated Commies, we hated Russian Orthodox. Always some reason to have a go at Russia eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

[Occupied Deutschland]

Amnesty International, a trustworthy source of information, has run an article about how the Fascist bullies Svoboda have attacked the head of Ukrainian National TV. It could be that Americans are also jingoist bullies and so they cater to fascist groups in Europe. Of course Europeans generally support fascists where applicable, Croatian Ustashies, etc. Western Europeans have generally shown dislike for Orthodox Christianity. This is connected to the dislike of Russia.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/amnesty-intern ... be-1440987

Yes, and a Crimean Tatar was disappeared, tortured and killed, and journalists were held at gunpoint and/or fired at and/or abducted (on a number of occaisons) in Crimea by 'Crimean self-defense forces'/Russian soldiers.

Neither is justifiable, neither is plainly indicative of a trend (well, excepting the journalists in Crimea as that actually is a trend, but point remains).

[Baltenstein]

I have found the Crimean War interesting. I guess that was sort of a Holy War where the west didnt like Russia, not because they were commies, but because they were Orthodox Christians.

Nonsense. France and Britain intervened on the Ottoman Empire's behalf not because of any religious spite, but to keep the geopolitical balance of power in check. They were afraid of the prospect that the Russian Empire would absorb too much Ottoman territory in the Balkans and Caucasus, conquer the Straits of Bosporus and establish a permanent presence in the Mediterranean.

You will also find that during both World Wars, the Western powers, Serbia, Russia and Greece were on the same side, while Croatia was on the other.

[Risottia]

Where do you base that on? As far as i know all people in Crimea where allowed to vote, including non-Russian speakers, Tatars and Ukrianians.

It doesn't help that most Crimeans speak Russian and are ethnic Russians.

Which makes the whole referendum thing look more legitimate.

Seriously, did ANYONE expect that people AGAINST the secession of Crimea from Ukraine would have show up to the ballots, thus acknowledging the referendum's legitimacy?

[Michijo]

Not a big fan of the Ustaše or Svoboda. I figure Svoboda would get involved in the sort of genocidal crap that the Croatians got up to. Just looking at the history of the United States for instance, we often support fascists such as Pinochet in Chile. According to this documentary, Bog I Hratvi, it should be obvious that the Croatian Ustaše were maniacs supported by the Vatican. I find Putin's argument that nobody seemed to mind that Serbia lost Kosovo interesting. No one seems to want to see both sides of the argument, but find it easy to label guilt to the other, like Lilliputians. Which side do you crack the egg on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0C0G-fzug

[Greed and Death]

So where else has Putin shown concern ? I know he is concerned for the Russians in Easter Ukraine and the Baltic states ? Maybe the Orthodox and the serbs in Eastern Europe as a whole.

Also what is to stop him from showing concern about the treatment East Germans have experience in unified Germany ?

[Natalia Poklonskaya]

Bandera Devils, I blink at you!

[Grand Britannia]

Bandera Devils, I blink at you!

Marry me?

[Rio Cana]

I have found the Crimean War interesting. I guess that was sort of a Holy War where the west didnt like Russia, not because they were commies, but because they were Orthodox Christians.

Nonsense. France and Britain intervened on the Ottoman Empire's behalf not because of any religious spite, but to keep the geopolitical balance of power in check. They were afraid of the prospect that the Russian Empire would absorb too much Ottoman territory in the Balkans and Caucasus, conquer the Straits of Bosporus and establish a permanent presence in the Mediterranean.

You will also find that during both World Wars, the Western powers, Serbia, Russia and Greece were on the same side, while Croatia was on the other.

Its the 21 Century and France and the UK. , NATO in general, still do not want the Russians any where near the Mediterranean. Like that saying says, "the more things change the more they stay the same".

[Limborg]

Where do you base that on? As far as i know all people in Crimea where allowed to vote, including non-Russian speakers, Tatars and Ukrianians.

It doesn't help that most Crimeans speak Russian and are ethnic Russians.

True, most are, but that isn't a reason for claiming that non-Russians and non-Russian speakers weren't allowed to vote.

[Greed and Death]

Breaking news, Russian attempt to advance into areas adjacent to the Ukraine.
http://www.france24.com/en/breaking/201 ... nt-crimea/

[Benuty]

Breaking news, Russian attempt to advance into areas adjacent to the Ukraine.
http://www.france24.com/en/breaking/201 ... nt-crimea/

Doesn't say how though.

[Greed and Death]

Breaking news, Russian attempt to advance into areas adjacent to the Ukraine.
http://www.france24.com/en/breaking/201 ... nt-crimea/

Doesn't say how though.

So it looks like all of Ukraine will be Russian again.

[Dear Leader Kim Jong-Un]

Doesn't say how though.

So it looks like all of Ukraine will be Russian again.

Can someone copy and paste the text into a spoiler please? i cant seem to read it.

and if this truly does hit the fan, will the EU/NATO just stand by or will real shit happen?

[Beta Test]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0320/603369-brussels-summit/

Russia announces sanctions against a bunch of American politicians, including John Boehner, John McCain and Mary Landrieu.

[Dear Leader Kim Jong-Un]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0320/603369-brussels-summit/

Russia announces sanctions against a bunch of American politicians, including John Boehner, John McCain and Mary Landrieu.

like they care

[Avenio]

Not a big fan of the Ustaše or Svoboda. I figure Svoboda would get involved in the sort of genocidal crap that the Croatians got up to. Just looking at the history of the United States for instance, we often support fascists such as Pinochet in Chile. According to this documentary, Bog I Hratvi, it should be obvious that the Croatian Ustaše were maniacs supported by the Vatican. I find Putin's argument that nobody seemed to mind that Serbia lost Kosovo interesting. No one seems to want to see both sides of the argument, but find it easy to label guilt to the other, like Lilliputians. Which side do you crack the egg on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0C0G-fzug

What, so the West is supposed to roll over and let Putin invade who he likes or not support Ukrainian democracy because of the existence of a minority far-right party? Methinks thou hast been watching a bit more RT than is probably good for you.

[Limborg]

Not a big fan of the Ustaše or Svoboda. I figure Svoboda would get involved in the sort of genocidal crap that the Croatians got up to. Just looking at the history of the United States for instance, we often support fascists such as Pinochet in Chile. According to this documentary, Bog I Hratvi, it should be obvious that the Croatian Ustaše were maniacs supported by the Vatican. I find Putin's argument that nobody seemed to mind that Serbia lost Kosovo interesting. No one seems to want to see both sides of the argument, but find it easy to label guilt to the other, like Lilliputians. Which side do you crack the egg on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0C0G-fzug

What, so the West is supposed to roll over and let Putin invade who he likes or not support Ukrainian democracy because of the existence of a minority far-right party? Methinks thou hast been watching a bit more RT than is probably good for you.

Yes they should. Nobody wants a new world war.
And where is that democracy then? The new goverment of Ukraine was installed. People never voted for that change.

[Avenio]

Yes they should. Nobody wants a new world war.

Please. Russia isn't willing to commit to even a regional war. If the West pushes back hard enough with sanctions and the like, Russia will back down.

And where is that democracy then? The new gouverment of Ukraine was installed. People never voted for that change.

The sitting government of the Ukraine was formed from elected members of the Ukrainian parliament, and has set dates for elections for later this year. Not to mention that Yanukovitch was ousted via popular movement.

[The Carlisle]

Bandera Devils, I blink at you!

Who are you, Emporio Ivankov?

[Saiwania]

It looks like Sarah Palin isn't the only fool who is willing to go nuclear. Dmitry Kiselyov has recently remarked that "Russia is the only country in the world realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive dust." I expected better of a representative of Russian state media because it is absolutely no problem for the US to launch 5,113 nuclear warheads towards Russia in retaliation to any attempted first strike on their part.

[Aterna]

Breaking news, Russian attempt to advance into areas adjacent to the Ukraine.
http://www.france24.com/en/breaking/201 ... nt-crimea/

Where there any casualties? Did shooting break out, or was it just strategic positioning?