Should religious banners, etc. be allowed in public schools?

[Post-Keynesian Economics]

Two incidents in particular from last year come to mind, though I'm talking about this issue in general.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/08/nation/la-na-texas-cheerleaders-20130509

Hardin County 365th Judicial District Court Judge Stephen Thomas said the banners that included religious messages — such as "If God is for us, who can be against us? Romans 8:31" — made and displayed by Kountze high school and middle school cheerleaders were permitted under the Constitution.

"The evidence in the case confirms that religious messages expressed on run-through banners have not created, and will not create, an establishment of religion in the Kountze community," Thomas said in his ruling.

He didn't further explain his decision in the two-page summary judgment order.

The controversy began in September when the Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Madison, Wis., received a complaint about the banners. Foundation officials notified the Kountze Independent School District superintendent, who banned them.

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20130110/cityandregion/130119944/1002

Joelle Silver, 29, complained in federal court papers that Cheektowaga Central School District officials threatened to fire her if she didn’t take down posters with religious messages, notes with Bible quotes and a “prayer request” box for the school’s Bible Study Club.

Silver, who teaches biology and anatomy and has been with the district for seven years, got rid of the material.

She then charged district officials with violating her First Amendment rights and acting hostile because she is Christian, in a complaint filed Thursday in U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York,

But a national organization that complained to the district twice about Silver last June said the classroom postings were unconstitutional and needed to be removed.

So, considering examples like these, should religious banners, posters, merchandise, etc. be allowed in public schools?

As much as I want to have a definitive opinion, I can easily see both sides.

On one hand, as long as all religious groups are allowed to express their religion in public school, technically equal expression of religion is being allowed. As long as the Bible Club and the Islamic Thought can both put up posters about their club, it's all fair.

Or is it?

On the other hand, I can also see why some might argue that this is a "separate but equal" situation, or rather a similar situation, in that "equal expression of all religions" can never truly be equal. Inevitably, especially in this country, the Christian displays will outnumber and outshine any others, and the people in power who decide whether or not displays are appropriate will also likely be biased towards Christianity.

But what do you think, NSG?

[Gallup]

We have this debate some much. Yes, they should be allowed. If a Hindu wants a Hindu banner, than the school board should vote. Same with every religion.

[Viritica]

As long as they don't start handing out bibles to people and actively trying to promote their religion, then yes.

Seriously, this happens. Some old guys were standing outside of my school with little cardboard boxes handing out pocket-sized bibles to kids as they walked home. Kinda weird but whatever.

[Post-Keynesian Economics]

We have this debate some much. Yes, they should be allowed. If a Hindu wants a Hindu banner, than the school board should vote. Same with every religion.

But will the school board not likely be more inclined to allow one religion's expressions over another's?

[Gallup]

We have this debate some much. Yes, they should be allowed. If a Hindu wants a Hindu banner, than the school board should vote. Same with every religion.

But will the school board not likely be more inclined to allow one religion's expressions over another's?

If there's only one Hindu in the school, yeah.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Depends if you are happy having passages from the Qur'an up as well... I suspect most of the people wanting to ignore separation of church and state are only thinking in terms of Christian messages.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Outwith a balanced religious education classroom, no.

[Risottia]

So, considering examples like these, should religious banners, posters, merchandise, etc. be allowed in public schools?

No. A school isn't the appropriate place for religious proselytising and stuff like that.

[Ifreann]

If and only if they are displayed in such a manner as to leave no question that the school does not in any way endorse any one religion over any other, nor religion over non-religion. So generally, no.

[Galloism]

I would say that school officials, as representatives of the state, can be prohibited from pushing their religion during work hours in their official capacity. That includes signs and such.

School children, on the other hand, should have reasonable free speech protections in that regard.

[West Florida]

Other than the idea of government indoctrinating our children bothering me, churches using public property on the weekends has also greatly bothered me. It happens at virtually every public high school in my area. I don't care if these churches or their congregants pay the local school boards hand over fist for using them on Sunday mornings, I say if these organizations can't afford property or buildings then they should only exist in the private homes of their respective members - until they gather enough resources to expand facilities. Can't be too hard especially with tax exempt status. Heck there's a church on nearly every corner in some places where I live - and I do not live in a poor or rural area by any stretch of the imagination.

It's inappropriate and borderline unconstitutional for religious groups to use public land for their own advancement. School property should be reserved for educational, athletic and other civil activities. The exception being if, say a high school Christian club utilizes the auditorium during after class hours. Voting in churches also bothers me tremendously.

Maybe I wouldn't be so irked if these groups didn't leave their banners up around the clock so as to advertise their goings on during official school hours.

[West Florida]

We have this debate some much. Yes, they should be allowed. If a Hindu wants a Hindu banner, than the school board should vote. Same with every religion.

Democracy at it's worst. Nothing says freedom like voting away the minority's rights. Or making religion a public popularity contest.

[Risottia]

We have this debate some much. Yes, they should be allowed. If a Hindu wants a Hindu banner, than the school board should vote. Same with every religion.

This leads more to a tyranny of majority rather than to a democracy.

[The Scientific States]

No, of course not. The public school system should always remain secular.

[The Scientific States]

We have this debate some much. Yes, they should be allowed. If a Hindu wants a Hindu banner, than the school board should vote. Same with every religion.

They should vote? Tyranny by Majority much?

[Me-lek]

yes and no.
the school itself should not, but a teacher should feel free to put up a poster of their belief if they want to so long as it's just that, a poster.

[Stovokor]

I would say that school officials, as representatives of the state, can be prohibited from pushing their religion during work hours in their official capacity. That includes signs and such.

School children, on the other hand, should have reasonable free speech protections in that regard.

I think this says it the best.

[Cato Island]

yes and no.
the school itself should not, but a teacher should feel free to put up a poster of their belief if they want to so long as it's just that, a poster.

How does this make sense outside of a private school?

[Me-lek]

yes and no.
the school itself should not, but a teacher should feel free to put up a poster of their belief if they want to so long as it's just that, a poster.

How does this make sense outside of a private school?

easy, the schools i went to in canada (that may be the problem) allowed teacher to put up posters and such so long as it was PG-13. i don't see any reason a teacher who happens to follow a faith can't put up one poster of said faith so long as they do not throw it infront of a person's face and scream at them to worship their god/goddess.

[Cato Island]

easy, the schools i went to in canada (that may be the problem) allowed teacher to put up posters and such so long as it was PG-13. i don't see any reason a teacher who happens to follow a faith can't put up one poster of said faith so long as they do not throw it infront of a person's face and scream at them to worship their god/goddess.

Sure, I get that posters pertaining to academic subjects are allowed. If an instructor is teaching religion then it could be allowed. Posters depicting various Biblical scenes, or Hindu deities, or images of holy places could be understandable.

But if a teacher randomly puts up the "Footprints" poster or an image of a Bible verse with a message compelling people to repent and be forgiven, then I have a major problem with that and would say that here in the US that would violate student's civil rights.

The exception again, would be a geography teacher putting up images of Israel, Mecca, or Lumbini for example. But it cannot all be exclusive to one place, or Holy place specific to a particular religion. How stupid would it be to have a math teacher put up posters of the Vatican instead of images pertaining to their respective subject? ... Classrooms are not personal playgrounds for teachers.

[Me-lek]

easy, the schools i went to in canada (that may be the problem) allowed teacher to put up posters and such so long as it was PG-13. i don't see any reason a teacher who happens to follow a faith can't put up one poster of said faith so long as they do not throw it infront of a person's face and scream at them to worship their god/goddess.

Sure, I get that posters pertaining to academic subjects are allowed. If an instructor is teaching religion then it could be allowed. Posters depicting various Biblical scenes, or Hindu deities, or images of holy places could be understandable.

But if a teacher randomly puts up the "Footprints" poster or an image of a Bible verse with a message compelling people to repent and be forgiven, then I have a major problem with that and would say that here in the US that would violate student's civil rights.

The exception again, would be a geography teacher putting up images of Israel, Mecca, or Lumbini for example. But it cannot all be exclusive to one place, or Holy place specific to a particular religion. How stupid would it be to have a math teacher put up posters of the Vatican instead of images pertaining to their respective subject? ... Classrooms are not personal playgrounds for teachers.

as i said, SO LONG AS IT STAYS AS A POSTER.
if they start preaching or they over do it, then yeah, no deal.

[Cato Island]

as i said, SO LONG AS IT STAYS AS A POSTER.
if they start preaching or they over do it, then yeah, no deal.

You don't see posters as a visual form of proselytizing? I mean by your logic a teacher, maybe of the Buddhist or Hindu persuasion, could erect a small shrine on their desk or in a back corner somewhere. Certainly that would make those in the Abrahamic faiths irate? '

So where do the rights of teachers end and the students begin? Easy! Public (government owned) land should be religion free. The exception being for educational purposes only. That way students aren't preached to. Teachers should keep religion at home or in their place of worship. That's why we have private religious schools after all...

[Braylandia]

Here in Ireland nearly every school is run by both the state and it's religious body (eg. Catholic Church, Church of Ireland etc.)

[Aurulence]

Frankly, if students want to put posters up for a club or organization or something, I think that they should be allowed to, provided that the material isn't inflammatory or anything. Teachers or the administration, on the other hand, really shouldn't do anything like that. Organized proselytizing, on the other hand, should be kept out of schools, regardless if its a teacher or a student.

[United Marxist Nations]

It depends, is the banner put there by the school, or are students putting it up? If the former, no; if the latter, public forum.