Pirating and conscience

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Kanabia
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Postby Kanabia » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:01 am

Smunkeeville wrote:
Kanabia wrote:[
Mmn, I made do with a trial version of one of the things I needed, but it lasted two weeks. The course was 15 weeks long. So yeah, not much help.

Yeah, that would suck.

Seems like you should talk to your universtiy about the issue with them not providing software licenses to their students.


Well, they do with some things. For example...my university is a member of the Microsoft development alliance...so all students in my faculty are entitled to free copies of Windows 7 for home use. Which is awesomely cool, if I weren't too lazy to wipe 800gb of crap from my hard drive and install it.

And they do have licences for the other software, the problem is that they're limited to on-campus use. We don't get take-home copies and they're often limited to certain lab rooms. If there's another class in the lab, you can't use the software. If you need to use it after-hours and it's not in a designated after-hours room, you're stuck too. The most amusing thing that happened this year was when I had a lab with 25 people, and the university only had 20 licences for the software we were using, so 5 people had to miss out as the software had inbuilt copy protection that stopped anyone after the 20th opening the program. Naturally, this had to happen in a class where I had to make my way across campus from a previous tutorial, so i'd get there after everyone else and spend that entire lab session staring into space. And then go home and work on it on my pirated copy.

That aside, getting your work done is sometimes simply impossible without a take-home copy, especially with 3D renders...those can take a very long time and sitting there in a lab staring at a blank screen for 8 hours while the computer processes it isn't really viable away from home.

Unfortunately most companies aren't willing to hand out licences for home use to students.

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:05 am

My conscience is clear: BEHOLD, CHEAPSKATE LOGIC

1) If I had to pay for music, games or software, I'd simply not bother.
2) As a consequence, the existence of piracy makes no difference as to whether I'll buy something or not.
3) Since I wouldn't have bought it anyway, the company/artist/international Jewry is losing no money by me downloading it.
4) Me pirating does not make the product less available for others like traditional 'theft' does, or make others less likely to purchase it.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cosmopoles
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Postby Cosmopoles » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:56 am

Hydesland wrote:Stata

I'm not really sure why it's so expensive myself to be honest.


I pirated that last year. Good times. I had additional justification for that too. I could have used it in the university library for free but I wanted a copy at home as well for convenience.

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:11 pm

I don't pirate, therefore, I don't feel like that when pirating. Problem solved.
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Lord-General Drache
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Postby Lord-General Drache » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:13 pm

Hydesland wrote:Right now I'm pirating some software worth around £1000 that I need for my degree, a part of me is actually feeling a bit iffy about this, perhaps even guilty? I'm not so sure. I rationalise this by saying to myself that I definitely wouldn't be buying this software if I otherwise couldn't download it, so I'm not depriving them of any opportunity cost. So my question is, have you ever felt like this when pirating? Should I feel bad?



Nope. I don't feel bad at all. I doubt very much major companies are significantly impacted by intertubial pirates. Ever since I discovered hulu, I pretty much stopped. It's a shame that the jackass who controls hulu decided, and I quote, "that the users do not appreciate the service offered because it is free. Therefore in 2010, we will be offering it at a premium so they may appreciate it." That's right, if someone doesn't appreciate what you do, charge 'em and they'll be grateful. I ran that by a CEO friend of mine who cracked up.
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Sarkhaan
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Postby Sarkhaan » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:16 pm

Hydesland wrote:Right now I'm pirating some software worth around £1000 that I need for my degree, a part of me is actually feeling a bit iffy about this, perhaps even guilty? I'm not so sure. I rationalise this by saying to myself that I definitely wouldn't be buying this software if I otherwise couldn't download it, so I'm not depriving them of any opportunity cost. So my question is, have you ever felt like this when pirating? Should I feel bad?

The bold is a contradiction...either you do need it and would be buying it, or you don't need it. If you do need it, your rationalization of stealing fails. If you don't need it, why are you getting it?

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:18 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:My conscience is clear: BEHOLD, CHEAPSKATE LOGIC

1) If I had to pay for music, games or software, I'd simply not bother.

If you couldn't get it for free, you wouldn't purchase any new games, music, or software? :eyebrow:
2) As a consequence, the existence of piracy makes no difference as to whether I'll buy something or not.

Or perhaps the reason you consider that is because you know you can pirate software/music with ease, not because you simply don't care enough.
3) Since I wouldn't have bought it anyway, the company/artist/international Jewry is losing no money by me downloading it.

See above.
4) Me pirating does not make the product less available for others like traditional 'theft' does, or make others less likely to purchase it.

It does, actually. It contributes to the skewed view of piracy in our modern world, and encourages others to pirate music/software, thus causing the companies a great loss of revenue. And is probably the reason for those damn later PC release dates. >:(
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OverMedicatedSquirrels
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Postby OverMedicatedSquirrels » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:23 pm

I refuse to recognize 'intellectual property.' It's an intangible concept, and the power is held not by the creators, but the distributors. Take music for example. When you get sued for illegally downloading music, it's not the artist who sues you, it's the RIAA, and they keep all the money.
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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:24 pm

Sarkhaan wrote:The bold is a contradiction...either you do need it and would be buying it, or you don't need it. If you do need it, your rationalization of stealing fails. If you don't need it, why are you getting it?


Look at Cosmopoles post, I'm in the same situation. I can just use the IT labs, but I'd rather be able to use it at home over Christmas (it would be an advantage), so I don't completely need it to the extent I would pay for it, but I do need it somewhat.
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Playing In The Water
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Postby Playing In The Water » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:26 pm

Oh, this isn't about how some Somali 'pirates' are actually local fishermen trying to stop illegal dumping of chemicals and nuclear waste in their waters by advanced nations which kills their fish stocks and poisons them, only to be arrested and charged the same as the violent gangs that hold vessels hostage?

My bad. Carry on! :p
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Czardas
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Postby Czardas » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:28 pm

Piracy ≠ theft. I wish people would stop making that comparison. What pirating is is copyright infringement, a completely different offense, more akin to operating a car without a license or something.

Basically, when buying software or CDs or something like that, you're purchasing a license to use the intellectual property of someone else. The concept of intellectual property indicates that your use of said property can only occur with the consent of the owner. Hence, pirating software or music is essentially using someone else's property without their consent (in the form of a license) and is thus more closely akin to rape.

Of course, if you purchase software or music or a game or something and the CD breaks, or the software is corrupted by a virus, or something, you're justified in obtaining a free copy from elsewhere (if not the manufacturer, then an illegal download), since the license is still active. It's only if the license expires that you need to repurchase whatever it is.
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Postby Astholm » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:49 pm

Apart from using Windows (which was OEM, original equipment manufacturer CD-ROM version of Windows Vista), I've used open-source where possible, like HTTrack, PortableApps etc., so piracy isn't that much of an issue for me.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:06 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:My conscience is clear: BEHOLD, CHEAPSKATE LOGIC

1) If I had to pay for music, games or software, I'd simply not bother.

If you couldn't get it for free, you wouldn't purchase any new games, music, or software? :eyebrow:
[quote]

Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.
Last edited by New Kereptica on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:06 pm

New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.

For everything? I find that hard to believe.
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Say to yourself in the early morning: I shall meet today ungrateful, violent, treacherous, envious, uncharitable men. All of these things have come upon them through ignorance of real good and ill... I can neither be harmed by any of them, for no man will involve me in wrong, nor can I be angry with my kinsman or hate him; for we have come into the world to work together... Marcus Aurelius

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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:08 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.

For everything? I find that hard to believe.


Find me one piece of software that I could not replace with a free alternative.
Last edited by New Kereptica on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Lord-General Drache wrote:Are you just going to continue to spout things without ever giving reliable data to support it when asked?

Probably.

All Boredom wrote:actually i know someone who lived in alaska for a while and she tells me that most eskimos are actually pretty mean. dirty eskimos, you deserve what you get!

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?

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Hydesland
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Postby Hydesland » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:08 pm

New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.


There's not really a free adequate alternative to this software, and if there was I wouldn't know how to use it and the people I submit my coursework into wouldn't be able to use it either.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:09 pm

Hydesland wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.


There's not really a free adequate alternative to this software, and if there was I wouldn't know how to use it and the people I submit my coursework into wouldn't be able to use it either.


I'm not condemning piracy, merely rationalizing, to a degree, my own.
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Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Lord-General Drache wrote:Are you just going to continue to spout things without ever giving reliable data to support it when asked?

Probably.

All Boredom wrote:actually i know someone who lived in alaska for a while and she tells me that most eskimos are actually pretty mean. dirty eskimos, you deserve what you get!

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?

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Lord-General Drache
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Postby Lord-General Drache » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:10 pm

New Kereptica wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.

For everything? I find that hard to believe.


Find me one piece of software that I could not replace with a free alternative.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_ ... tification
Last edited by Lord-General Drache on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:12 pm

Lord-General Drache wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.

For everything? I find that hard to believe.


Find me one piece of software that I could not replace with a free alternative.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_ ... tification


That's not a piece of software?
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Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Lord-General Drache wrote:Are you just going to continue to spout things without ever giving reliable data to support it when asked?

Probably.

All Boredom wrote:actually i know someone who lived in alaska for a while and she tells me that most eskimos are actually pretty mean. dirty eskimos, you deserve what you get!

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?

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Lord-General Drache
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Postby Lord-General Drache » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:13 pm

New Kereptica wrote:
Lord-General Drache wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.

For everything? I find that hard to believe.


Find me one piece of software that I could not replace with a free alternative.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_ ... tification


That's not a piece of software?


Is so. It just has a massive database as part of it.
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New Kereptica
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Postby New Kereptica » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:15 pm

Lord-General Drache wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:
Lord-General Drache wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
New Kereptica wrote:Yes. I'd either use free alternatives (those developed and released as free; GIMP, for example, as opposed to pirating Photoshop) or not bother.

For everything? I find that hard to believe.


Find me one piece of software that I could not replace with a free alternative.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_ ... tification


That's not a piece of software?


Is so. It just has a massive database as part of it.


The process of automated fingerprint identification is not a piece of software; it is a process that is done by many pieces of software, of which I am sure there are free examples.
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Blouman Empire wrote:Natural is not nature.

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:
Lord-General Drache wrote:Are you just going to continue to spout things without ever giving reliable data to support it when asked?

Probably.

All Boredom wrote:actually i know someone who lived in alaska for a while and she tells me that most eskimos are actually pretty mean. dirty eskimos, you deserve what you get!

KiloMikeAlpha wrote:Umm hmm.... mind if I siggy that as a reminder to those who think that it is cool to shove their bat-shit crazy atheist beliefs on those of us who actually have a clue?

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Station 12
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Postby Station 12 » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:16 pm

Buffett and Colbert wrote:You bought a light bulb for your lamp. After a while, it burns out.

Are you going to steal one to replace it?

No.

That would require physical effort, something that I am not capable of. Furthermore, there would be one less lightbulb in the shop that I stole it from.

Is there one less copy of the game if I pirate it? Obviously not.
Last edited by Station 12 on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Central Slavia » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:43 pm

I see these ideas not worth a spittle.
I try to use free software for everything, since i want to support them.
I also try to buy music which is not expensive, and which i like (like the Boney M anthology) just to show the publishing companies what is the right way - for that price , it comes slighltly cheaper than some piracy (ed2k can be slow)

I once wrote an article on this
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Thethunderdome
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Postby Thethunderdome » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:44 pm

Hydesland wrote:Right now I'm pirating some software worth around £1000 that I need for my degree, a part of me is actually feeling a bit iffy about this, perhaps even guilty? I'm not so sure. I rationalise this by saying to myself that I definitely wouldn't be buying this software if I otherwise couldn't download it, so I'm not depriving them of any opportunity cost. So my question is, have you ever felt like this when pirating? Should I feel bad?

It's not stealing, its copyright infringement. And who doesn't have a jolly good time in infringing some copyrights?
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Postby Nulono » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:49 pm

Is it stealing from Aquafina if I drink from the ocean?
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