NationStates

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:08 am**

Andaluciae wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Wunghnu wrote:The schools. No schools = no school shootings.

No School = No Education = No Work = Higher criminality = Lots of guns = Many shootings.

And don't start moaning about home schooling, since most people are not able to teach, nor do they have the time.

I understand your causal relationship up until "=Lot's of guns". Doesn't necessarily seem to form a causal link between the former and the latter.

Yeah, I think that = sign should be replaced with the word "with"

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:11 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Robarya wrote:
The Magic Spirit wrote:
Robarya wrote:I would personally be willing to kill someone for stealing an Euro from me, but besides that: Why should one put oneself at the mercy of a burglar, when you are not even aware of his intentions? I would personally not give a shit about statistics. I would do what I could do neutralize the threat rather than hiding in a closet sobbing like a little sissy faggot.
So that's the real issue. You consider hiding sissy behavior to a point where you don't care about statistics that say a gun isn't actually protecting your family. I consider violence wrong unless you're absolutely 100% you're in mortal peril. That's where we differ.

In a situation where I might have to use self-defense to keep myself and my family alive, I won't rely on the good will of the home invader to spare us, no matter what statistics say.

Using a gun in self-defense is no more likely to reduce the chance of being injured during a crime than various other forms of protective action.

Of the 30,694 Americans who died by gunfire in 2005, only 147 were killed by firearms (and only 123 by handguns) in homicides by private citizens that law enforcement determined were justifiable.

A study reviewing surveys of gun use in the U.S. determined that most self-reported self-defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society

http://www.lcav.org/resources/gun_viole ... tics.asp#7

Conversely, the standard assumption amongst law enforcement is that when used in home defense, firearms are almost never actually fired, since their value as a deterrent to action is pretty substantial.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:12 am**

New Genoa wrote:
Andaluciae wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Wunghnu wrote:The schools. No schools = no school shootings.

No School = No Education = No Work = Higher criminality = Lots of guns = Many shootings.

And don't start moaning about home schooling, since most people are not able to teach, nor do they have the time.

I understand your causal relationship up until "=Lot's of guns". Doesn't necessarily seem to form a causal link between the former and the latter.

Yeah, I think that = sign should be replaced with the word "with"

I agree.

A "+" would also be appropriate.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:34 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Wunghnu wrote:The schools. No schools = no school shootings.

No School = No Education = No Work = Higher criminality = Lots of guns = Many shootings.

And don't start moaning about home schooling, since most people are not able to teach, nor do they have the time.

No Education = Agricultural Economy = Feudal System = ??? = Profit

I was a joke ok.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:10 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Derscon wrote:
Having a gun helps me shoot someone, but having a gun doesn't necessitate I shoot someone.

Having no gun at all, will help you not to shoot someone, never.

Maybe you're a sane person, but not all people that are involved in a shooting are nutcases. When guns are around, 'accidents' can happen.

Humans are highly aggressive animals that can kill each other for nothing. It’s not smart to feed those dangerous animals with extreme lethal toys as guns.

You may be comfortable being bent over a fence drilled like a new well, but I opt out of the victim group.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:13 am**

Barringtonia wrote:How many school shooters are actually bullied - I've often thought this was somewhat of a myth and, in fact, bullies are more likely to be school shooters than those bullied.

Cite?

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:15 am**

Has anyone considered bullying as a cause? Think about it, kids are assholes to weak kid, weak kid tells teachers, teachers do nothing, weak kid gets angry, weak kid gets his hands on an AK-47.
School.
Shot.
Down.

I know I've wanted to punch people like that in the face. And I've been held away and protected from violence my entire life, so even thinking about punching someone is a big deal for me.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:24 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:In 2006, Guns Murdered:

18 in Austria
27 in Australia
59 in England & Wales
60 in Spain
190 in Canada
194 in Germany
10,177 in the United States

God Bless America

Cite?

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:27 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:In 2006, Guns Murdered:

18 in Austria
27 in Australia
59 in England & Wales
60 in Spain
190 in Canada
194 in Germany
10,177 in the United States

God Bless America

Those poor, helpless guns!

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:28 am**

School shootings are caused by a shortage of school shootings. What? You don't follow? Ok, let's look at it this way. Right now, teenagers have too much time and safety on their hands while they're teenagers. They've got nothing to do or be scared of, and so they get bored and angsty, then they go crazy and start killing people. Or they start bullying other students, which only intensifies the angst experienced by the teenagers around them and increases the likelihood of someone going crazy.
But, if our children were being shot at on a daily basis, then they'd have no time for boredom. They'd be too busy dodging bullets, attending funerals, recuperating in hospitals and learning how to overcome their new found physical disabilities to start killing people. Just look at the aftermath of a school shooting. Are those kids killing each other? No. They're hugging each other and praying and going into shock.
So the solution is to hire professional gunmen (jobs created! Hurray for the economy) to conduct weekly raids. The day and time of the raid would be randomly chosen, to keep people on their toes.
And before you accuse me of being a psychopath, I'm not suggesting that the gunmen should be shooting to kill. That would be cruel, instead they'd just spray about, scare the shit out of everyone, and try to injure three or four people on average. There would be some deaths, of course, but not too many.

So, let's look at the effects of my plan

Jobs created (gunmen, construction workers to repair schools, psychologists, nurses, janitors and doctors would all be in much higher demand)
Economic stimulus (Those bullets and supplies won't make themselves)
Elimination of non-official school shootings

Seems like a win-win to me.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:29 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:Since some suggest that Americans are more depressive & violent as other people, why not stay in USA...

Let's make a top 5 of the states with the highest gun death rates, and let's make a top 5 with the lowest gun death rates.
Then let's check the household gun ownership of those states.

State......................Household Gun Ownership..............Gun Death Rate per 100,000

1 Louisiana................45.6 %......................................19.58
2 Alabama.................57.2 %......................................16.99
3 Alaska...................60.6 %......................................16.38
4 Mississippi..............54.3 %......................................16.38
5 Nevada..................31.5%.......................................16.25

46 New York..............18.1%........................................5.20
47 Connecticut...........16.2%........................................4.95
48 Rhode Island..........13.3%........................................4.43
49 Massachusetts........12.8%........................................3.28
50 Hawaii.................9.7%.........................................2.58

Cite?

And now you get to break it down by lawful versus unlawful gun ownership.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:32 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Kinstantia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:Since some suggest that Americans are more depressive & violent as other people, why not stay in USA...

Let's make a top 5 of the states with the highest gun death rates, and let's make a top 5 with the lowest gun death rates.
Then let's check the household gun ownership of those states.

State......................Household Gun Ownership..............Gun Death Rate per 100,000

1 Louisiana................45.6 %......................................19.58
2 Alabama.................57.2 %......................................16.99
3 Alaska...................60.6 %......................................16.38
4 Mississippi..............54.3 %......................................16.38
5 Nevada..................31.5%.......................................16.25

46 New York..............18.1%........................................5.20
47 Connecticut...........16.2%........................................4.95
48 Rhode Island..........13.3%........................................4.43
49 Massachusetts........12.8%........................................3.28
50 Hawaii.................9.7%.........................................2.58

I see a portion of number, but not the complete set. And, I see that there isn't anything other than the numbers present. What are the laws in each state for owning guns? What constitutes gun violence in each state? Is this just shootings that cause death, or death and injuries? I'm not quite sure what I am looking at.

You can find the report here:
http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm

That would be like me posting an article from the NRA as a source. You don't get to use a bunch of gun-grabbing sissies any more than I get to cite a bunch of gun-toting rednecks.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:37 am**

The Magic Spirit wrote:
Der Teutoniker wrote:
The Magic Spirit wrote:all you're doing is feed the negative spiral. Defending yourself from aggressors with a gun makes you an aggressor yourself that other people will want to protect themselves from.

Really? I want to own a gun to protect myself, and my family from things like burglars, or tyrants. I don't want a gun to protect myself from my CCW permit-carrying coworker that keeps a gun in his car, and owns several at home, and frequently shoots them.

Americans want to protect themselves... not to shoot everyone else who has a gun. But... I guess maybe in bizarro world such logic would apply.
So suppose you're burgled. Why shoot the burglar? You can just as easily call 911. If he happens to be armed, you can hit him over the head with a shovel or simply hide in your attic. I'm not saying you want to shoot everyone else who has a gun; I'm saying that if you shoot the burglar, other people will want to protect themselves from burglars too, you run the risk of going to jail for shooting someone (especially if they're not armed) and burglars will arm themselves to protect themselves from homeowners. In the Netherlands that doesn't happen because burglars don't fear getting shot by the homeowner. The whole fear and protect thing is only bringing more guns into circulation and causing more risk.

By the way, if you own a gun you're 4.5x more likely to be shot in an assault by someone else protecting themselves from your gun (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121512.htm) and let's not forget the accidental deaths. You can't get hurt in a gun accident at home if there are no guns there. I'll keep looking for the stats on accidental gun deaths, but again the amount of people who die as a result of accidents with otherwise unused guns is depressing to see too. Do you really believe it protects you and your family to have a deathly weapon around the place? What if an otherwise unarmed burglar finds the weapon?

If you burglarproof your house (lock windows and doors, install some outdoor lighting and perhaps install an alarm system) the chance the burglar will pick your place will be immensely reduced. No one dies and you still have your stuff.

What is it with you guys wanting to be victimized?

Dial 911 and grab a shovel and cower in the attic hoping the burglar doesn't take the shovel from you and shove it up your ass before LE shows up (if they even decide to)?

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:55 am**

Kittens, have you ever had a fucking coworker kidnapped, robbed, brutally tortured with four .22 shots to the body, executed with a shotgun blast to the head, and left for dead in a cul-de-sac?

Till you can answer this question with a yes don't fucking tell me to give up give my right to self-defense.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:58 am**

Parthenon wrote:Kittens, have you ever had a fucking coworker kidnapped, robbed, brutally tortured with four .22 shots to the body, executed with a shotgun blast to the head, and left for dead in a cul-de-sac?

I've had 12 coworkers shot with howitzers and left in low earth orbit!

My story has as much backing as yours.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:59 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Der Teutoniker wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:Why do looooove Americans their gun?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqh6Ap9ldTs

Youtube video of a propoganda film is easily the best evidence to be found anywhere.

Propaganda film? Not even close.

If the information in his film was false then institutions as NRA would sue him till he's death.

They didn't.

If the information in Bowling for Columbine was accurate, why did Michael Moore feel the need to cut together several speeches from then NRA president Charlton Heston, making it seem like one speech.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:00 am**

Neo Art wrote:
Parthenon wrote:Kittens, have you ever had a fucking coworker kidnapped, robbed, brutally tortured with four .22 shots to the body, executed with a shotgun blast to the head, and left for dead in a cul-de-sac?

I've had 12 coworkers shot with howitzers and left in low earth orbit!

My story has as much backing as yours.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/20 ... utopsy.pdf

And mine has a fucking autopsy report. Don't fucking tell me my coworker wasn't murdered.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:02 am**

Parthenon wrote:
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/20 ... utopsy.pdf

And mine has a fucking autopsy report. Don't fucking tell me my coworker wasn't murdered.

Oh wow, an autopsy report, that MUST validate that this happened to someone you know. You'll forgive me for not going too much into this with you though. A dear friend of mine died recently, and I'm too distraught over it. Perhaps you read about it.

By the way Parthy, thank you for reminding me to update my signature. How'd that email turn out? I regret that Michael Savage still hasn't sued me yet.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:03 am**

Parthenon wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Parthenon wrote:Kittens, have you ever had a fucking coworker kidnapped, robbed, brutally tortured with four .22 shots to the body, executed with a shotgun blast to the head, and left for dead in a cul-de-sac?

I've had 12 coworkers shot with howitzers and left in low earth orbit!

My story has as much backing as yours.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/20 ... utopsy.pdf

And mine has a fucking autopsy report. Don't fucking tell me my coworker wasn't murdered.

Random incident = I gotz a rightz 2 killz u 4 my deffens!

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:08 am**

Neo Art wrote:
Parthenon wrote:
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/20 ... utopsy.pdf

And mine has a fucking autopsy report. Don't fucking tell me my coworker wasn't murdered.

Oh wow, an autopsy report, that MUST validate that this happened to someone you know. You'll forgive me for not going too much into this with you though. A dear friend of mine died recently, and I'm too distraught over it. Perhaps you read about it.

By the way Parthy, thank you for reminding me to update my signature. How'd that email turn out? I regret that Michael Savage still hasn't sued me yet.

I say this in the nicest and least flaming way possible, go fuck yourself. You make me sick.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:10 am**

Parthenon wrote:I say this in the nicest and least flaming way possible,

Ur doin it rong.

but go fuck yourself you hypocritical bastard. You go and whine to moderation when I say even the most polite of comments about suicide because you "KNEW SOMEONE" yet here you are calling the execution of my fucking coworker a god damned lie.

Aww, someone got a nerve pinched. If you don't like your honesty called into question, maybe you should stop being, you know, so blatantly dishonest all the time.

Oh well, anyone got an "INTERNET: SERIOUS BUSINESS!" lolcat we can throw up here? Seem appropriate. That, and maybe a blanket, it's obviously past someone's bedtime.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:10 am**

ignore neo art, his inability to sympathize with others might have been the cause of the suicide.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:10 am**

Hairless Kitten II wrote:In 2006, Guns Murdered:

18 in Austria
27 in Australia
59 in England & Wales
60 in Spain
190 in Canada
194 in Germany
10,177 in the United States

God Bless America

Shit, that is high.
I think the main cause is... access to guns. No Guns = No shooting...right?
Poverty, bullying and mental illness.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:14 am**

H N Fiddlebottoms VIII wrote:I'm not suggesting that the gunmen should be shooting to kill.

Shooting to kill? There is no such thing as "shooting to kill", there's "shooting to hit" and "shooting to miss". Guns are alot more dangerous than they might seem. A gunshot to the leg may seem harmless compared to a gunshot to the chest, but incase you forgot, a gunshot to the chest will kill you, dead, gone, forever. People who are shot by guns don't even realize what has happened until it's much too late to do anything about it.

I'm not kidding or making this up, police have been gunned down by men who should be dead, right before they drop to the ground.

Shooting someone in the leg wouldn't just incapacitate you, it wouldn't just break your leg, first of all, you would probably bleed to death, second of all, you would probably die of shock, and thirdly, that kinetic energy from the bullet has to go somewhere, and the only place it can go is everywhere else in the victim's body. The energy from that bullet will spread around, shaking your internal organs around inside you and then you will die.

It's entirely possible to survive a gunshot. Once the bullet is past your skin it's basically impossible to predict what'll happen next, but it's most likely that you'll die.

And if people run into schools shooting wildly without hitting anything at all, people will notice the fact that these incredibly frequent shootings are harmless and just ignore them.

So even if your idea wasn't very crazy, it just wouldn't work without killing people.

Posted: **Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:36 am**

Parthenon wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Parthenon wrote:
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/20 ... utopsy.pdf

And mine has a fucking autopsy report. Don't fucking tell me my coworker wasn't murdered.

Oh wow, an autopsy report, that MUST validate that this happened to someone you know. You'll forgive me for not going too much into this with you though. A dear friend of mine died recently, and I'm too distraught over it. Perhaps you read about it.

By the way Parthy, thank you for reminding me to update my signature. How'd that email turn out? I regret that Michael Savage still hasn't sued me yet.

I say this in the nicest and least flaming way possible, go fuck yourself. You make me sick.

Uncalled for. Take a three day break.

NationStates

The Main Cause of School Shootings