God is not good

[Koevoet]

Implying God exists

[Lengleland]

I most vehemently disagree.

[Cosmicus]

That is the entire flaw of projecting human attributes to the divine, it is pure arrogance on the part of humanity. The Earth and Humanity are but specks in the vastness of creation.

How did germs that walked out of water get like this??????

With millions and billion of years worth of evolution.

[Samuraikoku]

God is good. All the time.

And All the time, God IS Good.

When its followers are a bunch of maniacs wielding axes yelling "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!" at the top of their lungs, along with some other funny things like "KILL MAIM BURN!" or "BREAK THEIR BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACKS!!!"...

... It doesn't strike me as very good.

[Chinese Regions]

That is the entire flaw of projecting human attributes to the divine, it is pure arrogance on the part of humanity. The Earth and Humanity are but specks in the vastness of creation.

Knocking up Mary

[The Emerald Dawn]

>God exists

FTFY

[Councordia]

I would like to pose a hypothetical, primarily aimed at those who are followers of Abrahamic faiths, who are doctrinally supposed to believe in a personal, benevolent creator deity, who is concerned with your well-being and virtue, and has some "plan" for you on some level.

Suppose for a second that God reveals himself to you, and there's no real room for reasonable doubt. But he's not quite what you'd expect. Oh, he's definitely interested in your nation, and you by extension. He wants your people to prosper. But he's quite insistent on one thing: he's not too keen on everyone else. In fact, he makes it clear that he's not good, and never has been. He's just (at the moment) on your side.

Now suppose a different scenario. You find out all the same things. But tough luck, Chuck, you're not one of the chosen people. Doesn't really matter the reason, in the grand scheme of things it's petty and arbitrary. God favors someone else, and really doesn't care what happens to you.

In these scenarios, what would become of your religious faith, and the teachings it had espoused?

I'm not sure what this has to do with the Abrahamic God.
"and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me." (Genesis 22:18) Also 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

[Koevoet]

>God exists

FTFY

>implying

[Threlizdun]

The article says, and I agree, that the true and original revealed Abrahamic God as witnessed in the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity and attested by personal experience of believers over the centuries does not claim nor does God need to claim omnipotence; that characteristic was a later invention, an accretion, and not faithful to the Biblical witness.

Judaism and Christianity state this being created the universe. Yes, that level of power necessitates omnipotence, at least in the degree we understand. Regardless, you still have yet to answer what makes this being a god if they are not omnipotent.

[The Emerald Dawn]

FTFY

>implying

The pre-gator and green text changes it to mean implying.

[Kaizakhstan]

Implying God exists

>2013
>not believing in God

God is good. All the time.

And All the time, God IS Good.

Code: Select all

init.QuoteEpicurus
print "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"


[Wikkiwallana]

Implying God exists

This meme needs to die. Preferably a messy and disfiguring death.

[Tsuntion]

Code: Select all

init.QuoteEpicurus
print "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"


Hm. Then how can godless people do good things?

[Wikkiwallana]

I most vehemently disagree.

Disagree with what? If it's a specific post, quote it. Or do you just object to the concept of hypotheticals?

[Koevoet]

>implying

The pre-gator and green text changes it to mean implying.

:I

No..just...no

[The Emerald Dawn]

Implying God exists

>2013
>not believing in God

Code: Select all

init.QuoteEpicurus
print "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"


Uh huh. See, I don't believe in your imaginary friend.

I'm responsible for saving, no joke, at least 58 lives in my life. I've saved the lives of people who were my sworn enemy. I've saved the lives of people who wanted to kill my friends.

I've saved the lives of people who condemn me to hell for existing.

If your god CAN and chooses NOT to? He's guilty of criminally negligent apathy.

[Wikkiwallana]

The article says, and I agree, that the true and original revealed Abrahamic God as witnessed in the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity and attested by personal experience of believers over the centuries does not claim nor does God need to claim omnipotence; that characteristic was a later invention, an accretion, and not faithful to the Biblical witness.

Judaism and Christianity state this being created the university. Yes, that level of power necessitates omnipotence, at least in the degree we understand. Regardless, you still have yet to answer what makes this being a god if they are not omnipotent.

I could create a university with just a few million dollars…

Implying God exists

>2013
>not believing in God

Code: Select all

init.QuoteEpicurus
print "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"


Einstein never said that. Which is good, because it's an incredibly shitty argument.

[Conserative Morality]

Ah! Belief... Um... the whole scenario is a bloody waste of time then.

God just appeared and in such a way that there cannot possibly be any doubt that this is indeed God.

Belief just went bai-bai, we're now operating on something proven. In effect, I'm being asked what would change if someone could prove, without a doubt, that George Washington was actually a secret British spy. Well... not much. I'd still tend to follow the ideals given in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence as being fairly good and worth venerating, even if the founding father turned out to be not what I thought.

You seem to think that belief is like a switch; a boolean matter if you will.

It's not.

Belief covers more than "Does God exist y/n", it covers questions like "Is God good?" "What makes God worthy of worship?" etc etc.

He is God. He is the force that, in my view, created and maintains everything. That's a pretty neat trick in my book.

So you worship him because the universe was created by him?

Honestly don't know. Are we talking about a God who is a dick and who doesn't like me, but more or less ignores me after just stating He doesn't like me or are we talking about someone who has an active dislike, or dislikes, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut if I juuuuuuuuuust make with some more tithes, he miiiiiiiight just change his mind?

What if we're talking about a God who favors your people (Like is a very personal and human term) and you, but despises the rest of the world.

And why would it? Again, what has actually changed? I (supposedly) have God's favor now. Well... I admit, I've got a nice life. Could be better, but it could also be a hell of a lot worse. But God showing up in Japan just to say, "Hey, got your back" does... what exactly? I mean, I doubt manna will start falling from the sky.

Well, if we're going with YHWH, it's happened once, why not again? If an omnipotent being started meddling in political affairs to make a single people in the world favored over all the others, I think that would certainly start to change things.

But let's say so, that would mean I'm on the right track. What's that track? Trying to treat others as I want to be treated. Help whomever I can, whenever I can. Do my best to be a good man/father/husband/friend/neighbor/teacher to those around me. Ok, I'll keep doing that then.

Again, you're caught up on:

1. How you already act.
2. How you THINK God wants you to act.

It's a neither, I'm just more interested in how atheists would take it, given God has just been proven, but He REALLY doesn't like you. Do you swallow your pride and start to worship just to hope He starts to, or do you hold out?

I've forged my beliefs to be compatible with the existence of a God or gods; I have no intention of worshiping them.

That's kind of the problem with this. Ok, He's a dick but if you (like a bad boss) do enough to make Him happy He will like you.

Why do you assume that?

The problem really is, He isn't a bad boss, He's God. It's not quite the same as I'm going to fight the good fight against the horrible dictator because you literally have no way to win and no hope.

No way to win and no hope?

To pretend that the only victory is the destruction of one's enemy or the preservation of oneself is foolishness. To do what is right is always a victory. To fight for what you believe in is always a victory. You see, this is the kind of argument that makes me leery of Christians (And I've heard it multiple times from many different people) - if you think that doing the right thing is dependent on what you do or do not get out of it, how can you call yourselves moral?

[Menassa]

I'm not sure I understand the question... suppose God reveals himself to me and tells me that I'm one of the chosen people?

Sounds familiar.

[Ceannairceach]

That is the entire flaw of projecting human attributes to the divine, it is pure arrogance on the part of humanity. The Earth and Humanity are but specks in the vastness of creation.

Considering that at the moment human attributes are the only ones we know of that could ever possibly be considered those of a God, they work just fine. Humanity may not even register as a blip on the intergalactic radar of the universe, but until we find something else greater than ourselves, it's all we have.

[Pope Joan]

The article says, and I agree, that the true and original revealed Abrahamic God as witnessed in the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity and attested by personal experience of believers over the centuries does not claim nor does God need to claim omnipotence; that characteristic was a later invention, an accretion, and not faithful to the Biblical witness.

Judaism and Christianity state this being created the university. Yes, that level of power necessitates omnipotence, at least in the degree we understand. Regardless, you still have yet to answer what makes this being a god if they are not omnipotent.

Well I must admit, if God created the university then God does indeed have a great deal of evil for which to answer.

[Wikkiwallana]

Judaism and Christianity state this being created the university. Yes, that level of power necessitates omnipotence, at least in the degree we understand. Regardless, you still have yet to answer what makes this being a god if they are not omnipotent.

Well I must admit, if God created the university then God does indeed have a great deal of evil for which to answer.

I can just see the line of angry professors all screaming "Tenure!" at the top of their ethereal lungs.

[Trotskylvania]

Implying God exists

>2013
>not believing in God

Code: Select all

init.QuoteEpicurus
print "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"


Einstein never said that. What he did say, in a cable to a Jewish Rabbi in 1929: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."

Albert Einstein was a pantheist, and considered any belief in a personal deity to be deeply superstitious.

Also, obligatory
>Evil is the absence of good
Lol nope

[Norstal]

I'm not sure I understand the question... suppose God reveals himself to me and tells me that I'm one of the chosen people?

Sounds familiar.

Yeah. It means your god doesn't care about other people. Or that for each nation of people, there's different gods.

Either way, we will have ethnic discrimination.

[Avenio]

Implying God exists

The OP is a hypothetical. This sort of masturbation just makes you, and the rest of us atheists, look bad.