NationStates

2030-2050

Over the unification of Europe and control of her many resources, foreign intervention creates a vacuum of war.

It will not be the final war

Europe will be unified and Russia will have collapsed, China, U.S.A., Brasil, Canada, Turkstan, the The Union Of South African Nations will emerge to the world as new powers, with Europe still rebuilding from the war, they can't reclaim a world power spot until 2078.

CornixPes II wrote:

Commandersos wrote:

CornixPes II wrote:I really, really doubt China will do anything other than remain neutral.

china is going to supply weapons which the US wont be able to proove were supplied and NK is going to nuke a lot of spots which chinese want to be nuked

There's nothing to suggest that. If that was a plan it would be transparent. NK will have nothing to gain from doing China's dirty work and they know the whole world has been rallying against them for at least the last decade. Both China and NK know that they cannot stand up against a Europe-America assault, even with China's numbers. If we have Russia as well then it's definitely gameover. We have been at a stalemate for years, and it will remain that way.

u ignore one fact NK is not an oligarchy it is lead by one guy who just wants to live his little life happily
if u can figure out the rest of the story on how what and why things will happen ....

Commandersos wrote:

CornixPes II wrote:

Commandersos wrote:

CornixPes II wrote:I really, really doubt China will do anything other than remain neutral.

china is going to supply weapons which the US wont be able to proove were supplied and NK is going to nuke a lot of spots which chinese want to be nuked

There's nothing to suggest that. If that was a plan it would be transparent. NK will have nothing to gain from doing China's dirty work and they know the whole world has been rallying against them for at least the last decade. Both China and NK know that they cannot stand up against a Europe-America assault, even with China's numbers. If we have Russia as well then it's definitely gameover. We have been at a stalemate for years, and it will remain that way.

u ignore one fact NK is not an oligarchy it is lead by one guy who just wants to live his little life happily
if u can figure out the rest of the story on how what and why things will happen ....

I have not 'ignored' this fact, nor do I think he wants to live his life 'happily'. Not even Kim Jong-il is willing to give up everything he has built just to fire some missiles at people. He has proven that he listens to no-one and works for no-one. He is likely to be a seperate entity in a global war, not a perpetrator. I'm sure he will relish the idea of outliving every other nation and sticking his grimy flag in the remains.

When?
12/2013
Why?

will the final World War be fought
Cause I'm physic And America will piss Pakistan off probably

What?

will be the outcome

China will be the new world ruler

The UK seceding from the USE.

Sibirsky wrote:

United Russian State wrote:But the best course to be neutral, remain on everybodies good side. Keep their trust with NK, and make some money in helping them rebuild. The war would also be harder for America and be a bigger hit to it's economy, military, and people. Making Ametica weaker, while the rest grow stronger. The winners are the ones on the side lines.

US vs. NK would make America weaker? Come on now. NK wouldn't be able to do much.

Iraq did. NK has a large army that has built tons od defensive postions in it's country over the years just waiting for an attack. I would expoect the death toll to be far more than 3000 or whatever it is America in Iraq. It also takes money to fight wars, which the USA does not have, in fact it's in debt to a number of countires. Not to mention NK has a samll number of nukes it could use on American soldiers.

NK's missiles hardly work.. but they do have tons of artillery, so both Koreas lose once either side starts shooting. America already has troops in SK, so they probably wouldn't send too much extra reinforcements because of Iraq & Afghanistan[would get extra expensive, plus already low support at home]

CornixPes II wrote:

Commandersos wrote:

CornixPes II wrote:

Commandersos wrote:

CornixPes II wrote:I really, really doubt China will do anything other than remain neutral.

china is going to supply weapons which the US wont be able to proove were supplied and NK is going to nuke a lot of spots which chinese want to be nuked

There's nothing to suggest that. If that was a plan it would be transparent. NK will have nothing to gain from doing China's dirty work and they know the whole world has been rallying against them for at least the last decade. Both China and NK know that they cannot stand up against a Europe-America assault, even with China's numbers. If we have Russia as well then it's definitely gameover. We have been at a stalemate for years, and it will remain that way.

u ignore one fact NK is not an oligarchy it is lead by one guy who just wants to live his little life happily
if u can figure out the rest of the story on how what and why things will happen ....

I have not 'ignored' this fact, nor do I think he wants to live his life 'happily'. Not even Kim Jong-il is willing to give up everything he has built just to fire some missiles at people. He has proven that he listens to no-one and works for no-one. He is likely to be a seperate entity in a global war, not a perpetrator. I'm sure he will relish the idea of outliving every other nation and sticking his grimy flag in the remains.

exactly he believes like so many before him that his iron will is his iron fist,china may exploit this as far as outliving goes not even the smartest and most lucky people can be certain of that
as for being a maniac who wants to see his enemies die around him he simply lacks the potential
to pull that off
and the only way he can do that is by accepting the aid offered by the chinese
suppose he is not what we both believe him to be then the same scenario plays out again

Ordo Mallus wrote:

Call to power wrote:Mars will get uppity again and we'll have to turn the place into a radioactive desert

Risottia wrote:Unless you wipe off COMPLETELY life from the planet, that is - which is something that even the world's whole nuclear arsenal cannot accomplish.

unless of course it starts a runaway greenhouse affect in which case we have yet to find life on Venus so...

the US and Russia can destroy the world 20 times over with nuclear weapons, With one chem weapon type the US can kill the world 18 times over (VX ftw). The US itself can destroy the entire planet. Also if any nuclear country wanted to, they can always just detonate them all in space and with all the EMP effects, destroy the technology in the world which would revert us all into the dark age.

The EMP only affects most things temporarily.

Hertoria wrote:

Ordo Mallus wrote:

Call to power wrote:Mars will get uppity again and we'll have to turn the place into a radioactive desert

Risottia wrote:Unless you wipe off COMPLETELY life from the planet, that is - which is something that even the world's whole nuclear arsenal cannot accomplish.

unless of course it starts a runaway greenhouse affect in which case we have yet to find life on Venus so...

the US and Russia can destroy the world 20 times over with nuclear weapons, With one chem weapon type the US can kill the world 18 times over (VX ftw). The US itself can destroy the entire planet. Also if any nuclear country wanted to, they can always just detonate them all in space and with all the EMP effects, destroy the technology in the world which would revert us all into the dark age.

The EMP only affects most things temporarily.

An electromagnetic pulse will create an electromagnetic field on any metal surface in the footprint, therefore frying most electronics irreversibly (unless they are faraday caged or insulated in some way). The only thing temporary about an EMP attack are the burn wounds most of the population will suffer.

NONE OF THE FOLLOWING IS NECESSARILY PLAUSIBLE, JUST HAVING A WAR WANKFEST:

China and the Russian federation (and possibly N.Korea) will have serious conflicts over claims for oil reserves (needed desperately due to economic destabilisation) and breaks down into outright military engagement, China will request NATO help. NATO forces are still involved in Afghanistan and Iraq somewhat but are stretched across Asia due to the Russo-China war. Taliban (advantaged with increased membership due to disgruntled insurgents angry at the fact that NATO forces are still present) will take advantage of weakened NATO forces and launch a general devastating series of guerilla warfare, and proceed to march into Pakistan and attempt to annex major regions. NATO forces decide to launch general invasion of Pakistan. Speculations over possible funding or helping of Taliban from Iran fuels NATO to air strike essential military complexes in Iran. Iran retaliates by sending its own forces into Pakistan near the Iran border to engage the US military there. US so overwhelmed by battling forces on all fronts decides it has no choice but to nuke Iran (US claims justified as it will apparently in the long run cause less deaths). Devastating nuclear explosion in Tehran kills hundreds of thousands. Iran attempts to retaliate with counter nuclear missiles but missiles are intercepted by defences and detonated in the atmosphere, Iran surrenders/withdraws military operations. Pakistan now completely destabilised and in similar situation to Afghanistan, increased terror attacks in Europe resulting from massive increase in radicalism in response to what is seen as evil imperialistic military operations. N.Korea completely bankrupt withdraws support of Russia in Russo-China war, Russia now more vulnerable and NATO forces launch general offensive into Russia, no area annexed but Russia eventually surrenders after huge losses of life (on both sides). China now also bankrupt but begins huge economic recovery and begins drilling operations in new oil reserves, US suffering even more economically are now even more in debt with China. Europe, although suffering largely from massive decreases in trade and a general continuing global economic crisis as well as increases in terror activity, is otherwise relatively unaffected. Middle eastern region, especially Pakistan and Afghanistan, still massively destabilised and NATO will continue to battle insurgency there for decades. Russia now very poor and on the brink of collapse, Marxist-Leninist party gains victory in Russia and a new cold, idealogical war between the west and Russia begins, a.k.a cold war 2. Japan and India now economic giants.

Dododecapod wrote:MAD no longer applies. Neither the US nor Russia have sufficient nukes to impose it on one another, nor, honestly, the will to try.

Uhhhh...

Deterrence theory indicates that a state only needs 40 guaranteed delivery nuclear weapons to achieve deterrence. Both powers have far more than 40 guaranteed delivery weapons on individual SSBN's, let alone in their total arsenals.

Andaluciae wrote:

Dododecapod wrote:MAD no longer applies. Neither the US nor Russia have sufficient nukes to impose it on one another, nor, honestly, the will to try.

Uhhhh...

Deterrence theory indicates that a state only needs 40 guaranteed delivery nuclear weapons to achieve deterrence. Both powers have far more than 40 guaranteed delivery weapons on individual SSBN's, let alone in their total arsenals.

Sure, but that's deterrance. MAD was one step beyond deterrance - it was "If you start this you will lose your entire population and everything inside your borders will be radioactive wasteland." One can reasonably be said to be an expansion of the other, but I think it is reasonable to differentiate.

Valtamia wrote:2030-2050

Over the unification of Europe and control of her many resources, foreign intervention creates a vacuum of war.

It will not be the final war

Europe will be unified and Russia will have collapsed, China, U.S.A., Brasil, Canada, Turkstan, the The Union Of South African Nations will emerge to the world as new powers, with Europe still rebuilding from the war, they can't reclaim a world power spot until 2078.

Canada? Who on Earth is Turkstan? And what happened to India, the nation with the largest population (set to overtake China by 2050, with the possibility for even more if it annexes Pakistan and Bangladesh), to stop them becoming a great power?

...will be fought over my pants.

NK's missiles hardly work.. but they do have tons of artillery, so both Koreas lose once either side starts shooting. America already has troops in SK, so they probably wouldn't send too much extra reinforcements because of Iraq & Afghanistan[would get extra expensive, plus already low support at home]

North Korea's missles work... ish. In the sense of enough to get to Seoul or Japan.

What would probably happen is a zerg rush by NK forces across the DMZ screaming "Busan Or Bust!", a massive artillery barrage that would level Seoul, Scud spamming at Japan, and wide-spread chaos brought about by a quarter million SF-type infiltrators. They'd run out of gas before getting halfway through South Korea, then be wiped out annihilated napalmed to death by the SK/US/Whoeverelse counter attack. Sucks to be an army in the modern era with no reliable air support.

Active combat would be over in less than a couple of months.

Massive chaos and carnage for South Korea, but more importantly economically devestating for the region rest of the world. NK winds up as an official Chinese protectorate.

[edit]: Probably wouldn't precipitate a Third World War, though... most of the countries that would wage a WW3 would instead breathe a sigh of relief since it would be an end to NK's endless brinksmanship.

Commandersos wrote:When?

Impossible to tell. It will probably happen, but hopefully not before humans are on multiple planets. In which case it won't nessissarily be a World War, but potentially a multi-world war.

&
Why?

North Korea and Iran are possible starting points. Israel engaging in preemptive stupidity is another. China vs US or Russia vs US seems less likely (what rational motivation would the parties in question have for war?), but anything's possible. Including World War Three being started by an accidental nuclear launch, especially if tensions are already high.

will the final World War be fought
and

What?

will be the outcome

Pretty much everyone will be devastated, but America will probably edge out a victory unless its America vs the World. If its Russia vs America, though, Canada and Europe are probably fucked.

It won't be the last war however.

for those who question the 3rd ww to be the final war my reasoning is simple

too many nukes and too many morons

We're not going to wipe out all humankind in a nuclear war, pop-culture mythology notwithstanding.

Their is a possibility we'd smash up our civilization so badly that some other otherwise survivable disasters finish us, or we're left permanently at a pre-industrial level, I suppose.

Is nobody going to analyse my post? I want people to tell me how ridiculous it is.

As far as epic wars go, the historical record seems to indicate that the ultimate beneficiary is rarely, if ever, one of the primary belligerants.

Assyria vs. Egypt= Babylon.
Babylon vs. Egypt= Persia
Greeks vs. Persians= Pelloponesian war= Macedon
Romans vs. Persians= Germanic Barbarians
Western Romans vs. Germanic Barbarians= Eastern Romans
Eastern Romans vs. Germanic Barbarians= Persians
Eastern Romans vs. Persians= Rashidun Caliphate

The list goes on.

Napoleon vs. Russians= British
Nazis vs. Soviets= US

Regardless of who starts World War 3, the name of the game would be to deliberately stay out of the game until the 4th quarter, then sweep whoever left standing.

I don't see why people think China and the US will be on opposing sides. It's not in either nation's interest to fight each other.

Brajh wrote:I don't see why people think China and the US will be on opposing sides. It's not in either nation's interest to fight each other.

In my scenario they are allies, because I am awesome like that.

Within the next 20 years between NATO and North Korea. I don't know what side Russia will take, Possibly NATO, but not sure. China will support North Korea.

Kulverint wrote:Within the next 20 years between NATO and North Korea. I don't know what side Russia will take, Possibly NATO, but not sure. China will support North Korea.

Russia would probably stay out of it.

China might support North Korea, but they'd have to know that ultimately war with the US with destroy them. More likely, as long as the US doesn't do something dumb like nuke North Korea and thereby pollute China with radioactive fallout, China will stay neutral and help no one.

In which case, it would be basically NATO, South Korea, and Japan vs North Korea. Destructive, horrifically so on the local level and seriously damaging to the global economy, but ultimately a crushing loss to North Korea.

Autumn Wind wrote:As far as epic wars go, the historical record seems to indicate that the ultimate beneficiary is rarely, if ever, one of the primary belligerants.

Assyria vs. Egypt= Babylon.
Babylon vs. Egypt= Persia
Greeks vs. Persians= Pelloponesian war= Macedon
Romans vs. Persians= Germanic Barbarians
Western Romans vs. Germanic Barbarians= Eastern Romans
Eastern Romans vs. Germanic Barbarians= Persians
Eastern Romans vs. Persians= Rashidun Caliphate

The list goes on.

Napoleon vs. Russians= British
Nazis vs. Soviets= US

Regardless of who starts World War 3, the name of the game would be to deliberately stay out of the game until the 4th quarter, then sweep whoever left standing.

The Greeks vs the Persians was not the same as the Peloponnesian War, you know, though one can make a case for it being part of the aftermath of the Greek victory. The ultimate beneficiary of the Peloponnsian War was Persia, who managed to influence both sides and keep the Greeks from uniting against her.

The Parthians and the Sassanids were never a viable threat to the Roman Empire except locally, in Syria and Armenia. They did not weaken the Empire to the extent that the German barbarians were able to invade in the numbers they did. What allowed a German take-over of the West was a lack or strong government and the fear of usurpation that became a major concern of the Emperors. And a policy, in both the Western and Eastern Empires of admitting German (Gothic) colonists inside the borders.

The Eastern Empire never had the same problems with the Germans that the West had, so no, the Persians did not ultimately benefit from anything like that. What happened at the end of the 6th century was a usurpation, the reigning Emperor Maurice was overthrown by one of his generals, Phocas. Maurice has previously helped the Persian Emperor, Khosrau II, gain his throne and Khosrau now invaded the Empire, conquering much of the Middle East and Egypt. Phocas, meanwhile, proved very unpopular and the Exarch of Africa and his son, both named Heraclius, began a revolt. Heraclius eventually overthrew Phocas and then began a long campaign to drive the Persians out.

I will grant you that this Roman-Persian War did give the emergent Caliphate an opening. I think Islam might have made inroads eventually, however, as even without the Persian War there were deep divisions between Christian sects in the Empire.

What I mean by all this is that it's easy to oversimplify and a little research will reveal not only more information but interesting things, too.

Tokos wrote:

Political Pilgrims wrote:I don't believe that there will be another major war until somebody develops a counter to nuclear weapons. Whoever gets that first will send the world to hell.

Also, by the time another WW starts, there will be clearly defined sides, like in WWI and WWII. No guessing or what-if's. If not, most nations will remain neutral, and that means it won't be a world war.

A block to nuclear weapons would still make that kind of warfare very risky, if you mean shooting the missiles down or something. It would be like knife fighting on a national scale: one small mistake, one miss, and a nuke gets through.

Which is why I propose using high-powered Quantum lasers, instead! Just channel rapid photon energy through a super-strong barrel, and achieve an extremely intensified beam of energy and will, theoretically, vaporize the nuke.