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Orbital Weapons

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Blazedtown
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Postby Blazedtown » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:57 pm

Ainin wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:
It has made us reliant on foreigners for our space lift capacity. If we had a space station to ourselves, we would have been forced to have a replacement for the Space Shuttles before they were retired.

And the price tag that comes with, yes?


So? we didn't spare any expense on the Manhattan Project and the exploration and colonization of space are far more vital for the future of America and all mankind than the Manhattan Project was.
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Lotari
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Postby Lotari » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:01 pm

Ainin wrote:
Saiwania wrote:I think it is a good idea. The US needs to stick it to the Russians and the Chinese and build an ABM system so powerful as to make all of their ICBMs obsolete. Preferably it would enable the US to nuke them, but they wouldn't be able to nuke back. A world in which the US is the only superpower is one I'd like to enable again.

*sigh* People just don't get it...
No nukes in space
No nukes in space
No nukes in space

Anti-ballistic missile systems are not nukes.

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Tyrants
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Postby Tyrants » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:03 pm

Blazedtown wrote:
Ainin wrote:And the price tag that comes with, yes?


So? we didn't spare any expense on the Manhattan Project and the exploration and colonization of space are far more vital for the future of America and all mankind than the Manhattan Project was.


The Manhattan Project was seen as a means to an end. Blowing up space isn't.
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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:04 pm

Lotari wrote:
Ainin wrote:*sigh* People just don't get it...
No nukes in space
No nukes in space
No nukes in space

Anti-ballistic missile systems are not nukes.

Some can be.
They'd have been bloody effective if they'd ever needed to have been used.
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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:05 pm

Lotari wrote:
Ainin wrote:*sigh* People just don't get it...
No nukes in space
No nukes in space
No nukes in space

Anti-ballistic missile systems are not nukes.

The really good ones are though. One ABM system we could of and should have built used Bomb-pumped X-ray lasers. A single warhead can power a multitude of lasers. Had we done the R&R and built one. We could do one shuttle launch and we'd would have had a satellite that could theoretically shoot down the entirety of the USSR's land based arsenal.

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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:06 pm

Space stations to attack the ground are bad ideas. Space stations to shoot down ICBMs are Bad Ideas™.
Last edited by Jean-Luc Picard on Stardate 42359.5, edited 3 times in total.


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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:08 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:Space stations to attack the ground are bad ideas. Space stations to shoot down ICBMs are Bad Ideas™.

First one I agree with, second one is just flat out wrong. Space based ABM Defenses remain some of the most potent ABM systems ever designed. We could have built them and we should have built them.

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Blazedtown
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Postby Blazedtown » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:09 pm

Tyrants wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:
So? we didn't spare any expense on the Manhattan Project and the exploration and colonization of space are far more vital for the future of America and all mankind than the Manhattan Project was.


The Manhattan Project was seen as a means to an end. Blowing up space isn't.


Where did I say we should blow up space?

Its not a means to an end, its a means to the beginning of the next chapter of human history.
Go Vikings.

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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:11 pm

The Corparation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Space stations to attack the ground are bad ideas. Space stations to shoot down ICBMs are Bad Ideas™.

First one I agree with, second one is just flat out wrong. Space based ABM Defenses remain some of the most potent ABM systems ever designed. We could have built them and we should have built them.

OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific: ABM systems in general are Bad Ideas™.
Last edited by Jean-Luc Picard on Stardate 42359.5, edited 3 times in total.


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Imperium of Tanith
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Postby Imperium of Tanith » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:11 pm

Simple, just have a Space Station that fires Orbital Bombardments.
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Blazedtown
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Postby Blazedtown » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:13 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
The Corparation wrote:First one I agree with, second one is just flat out wrong. Space based ABM Defenses remain some of the most potent ABM systems ever designed. We could have built them and we should have built them.

OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific: ABM systems in general are Bad Ideas™.


Putting a tm after the end of it doesn't make it true.
Go Vikings.

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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:13 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
The Corparation wrote:First one I agree with, second one is just flat out wrong. Space based ABM Defenses remain some of the most potent ABM systems ever designed. We could have built them and we should have built them.

OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific: ABM systems in general are Bad Ideas™.

Okay, this is just wut.
You have exactly, unequivocally said, that defences against nuclear attack are bad.
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Trollgaard
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Postby Trollgaard » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:14 pm

The Grand Imperium of Man wrote:Hey do you think a orbital defense grid is a good idea? please respond to this I would like to find out.


Lame OP, but despite the UN resolution I feel that it is the next logical step for the USA to take in our strategy of complete dominance in the military sphere. The treaty be damned, we come first.

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:15 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
The Corparation wrote:First one I agree with, second one is just flat out wrong. Space based ABM Defenses remain some of the most potent ABM systems ever designed. We could have built them and we should have built them.

OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific: ABM systems in general are Bad Ideas™.

I fail to see how ABM systems are bad.

Imperium of Tanith wrote:Simple, just have a Space Station that fires Orbital Bombardments.
Image

Seriosuly Space station weapons platforms aren't that great an idea. ASAT missiles are cheap.

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Priory Academy USSR
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:16 pm

The Corparation wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific: ABM systems in general are Bad Ideas™.

I fail to see how ABM systems are bad.

Imperium of Tanith wrote:Simple, just have a Space Station that fires Orbital Bombardments.
Image

Seriosuly Space station weapons platforms aren't that great an idea. ASAT missiles are cheap.


F-15's can hit space-borne targets? Huh.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:16 pm

Blazedtown wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific: ABM systems in general are Bad Ideas™.


Putting a tm after the end of it doesn't make it true.

Never said it did. But the existence of nuclear weapons keep the major powers from openly tearing each other's throats out. Moving the fighting to proxy wars in third world nations still isn't exactly desirable, but I for one think it's better than having tens of millions of people getting killed in relatively pointless wars every few decades.
Last edited by Jean-Luc Picard on Stardate 42359.5, edited 3 times in total.


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Oogium
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Postby Oogium » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:16 pm

Blazedtown wrote:
Ainin wrote:[citation needed]

Not that I'm saying it's wrong, but source?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty

If we obeyed every treaty ever written South America would still be split between Spain and Portugal and Germany wouldn't be allowed to have tanks or an air force. Times change and international law needs to change with it.

I believe this treaty is pre-World War 2. Also, remember when the Chinese blinded American sats with a laser? All they'd have to do would be EMP under the thing, and boom! Giant piece of explosive space junk.
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Blazedtown
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Postby Blazedtown » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:18 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
The Grand Imperium of Man wrote:Hey do you think a orbital defense grid is a good idea? please respond to this I would like to find out.


Lame OP, but despite the UN resolution I feel that it is the next logical step for the USA to take in our strategy of complete dominance in the military sphere. The treaty be damned, we come first.


You can't damn a treaty! its printed on paper, one of the most resilient materials ever made by mankind. Any law printed on paper is unbreakable. Like just last night I tried roll through a stop sign and paper sprang out of no where and stopped my car dead in its tracks.
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Thronegaria
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Postby Thronegaria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:18 pm

An Orbital Weapon would be a bad idea, perhaps even wars happened because of it. who would be in charge?

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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:
Putting a tm after the end of it doesn't make it true.

Never said it did. But the existence of nuclear weapons keep the major powers from openly tearing each other's throats out. Moving the fighting to proxy wars in third world nations still isn't exactly desirable, but I for one think it's better than having tens of millions of people getting killed in relatively pointless wars every few decades.

And the existence of ABM systems helps to ensure that the major powers don't rip each others throats out as it gives them a greater incentive not to attack, as they won't be able to make as decisive an attack.

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Blazedtown
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Postby Blazedtown » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:19 pm

Oogium wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty

If we obeyed every treaty ever written South America would still be split between Spain and Portugal and Germany wouldn't be allowed to have tanks or an air force. Times change and international law needs to change with it.

I believe this treaty is pre-World War 2. Also, remember when the Chinese blinded American sats with a laser? All they'd have to do would be EMP under the thing, and boom! Giant piece of explosive space junk.


So? The outer space treaty is 40 years old. It was written during the Cold War to keep the Russians from claiming the moon while they were still winning the space race.
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The Corparation
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Postby The Corparation » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:20 pm

Oogium wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty

If we obeyed every treaty ever written South America would still be split between Spain and Portugal and Germany wouldn't be allowed to have tanks or an air force. Times change and international law needs to change with it.

I believe this treaty is pre-World War 2. Also, remember when the Chinese blinded American sats with a laser? All they'd have to do would be EMP under the thing, and boom! Giant piece of explosive space junk.

Source on China blinding Americans Sats? And also satellites can be made resistant to EMPs.

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Samozaryadnyastan
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Postby Samozaryadnyastan » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:20 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The Corparation wrote:I fail to see how ABM systems are bad.

Image

Seriosuly Space station weapons platforms aren't that great an idea. ASAT missiles are cheap.


F-15's can hit space-borne targets? Huh.

So can lightweight Navy cruisers.
Image
Wisconsin9 wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:
Putting a tm after the end of it doesn't make it true.

Never said it did. But the existence of nuclear weapons keep the major powers from openly tearing each other's throats out. Moving the fighting to proxy wars in third world nations still isn't exactly desirable, but I for one think it's better than having tens of millions of people getting killed in relatively pointless wars every few decades.

ABM would be far from capable of outright eliminating an enemy strike (it's part of why the US and USSR stocks were so hilariously overstocked. Redundancy), though US efforts are ahead of Russian and Chinese systems (though Russia invested very heavily in ABM-defeating penetration aids countermeasures).
It's about mitigating the loss to your own arsenal, infrastructure and population.
Last edited by Samozaryadnyastan on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thronegaria
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Postby Thronegaria » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:22 pm

Blazedtown wrote:
Genivaria wrote:What do YOU think?
And the world says no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty


The world also said that you can;t built aircraft carriers that displace more than 27,000 tons but the US has 10 carriers over 100,000 tons and 9 amphibious assault ships over 40,000 tons.

Treaties can be broken, international law is just words if there is nothing to back it up. The outer space treaty is obsolete and needs to be scrapped.

U.S. does not obey anything, and people still think they are the good side

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