Should the U.S Abolish the Department of Education?

[Sdaeriji]

No. Businesses benefit from uniform education standards across the country.

...we don't have that. Not even close.

Dodd and Kennedy were going to propose a voluntary (read: tied to funding) national curriculum. That's about the closest we've ever gotten.

Oh, I definitely recognize that. But going in the opposite direction won't help things.

[Nua Corda]

Reformed? Definitely. Abolished? Hell no. Currently, it seems to be the only thing keeping Creationism out of schools. And the American Education system needs sweeping reforms that have to be done at the federal level.

[Grave_n_idle]

It should.

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

[Keron]

So ever since I've been getting into a more Capitalist, Right Wing community over both my life and the internet, a few things have come up that I simply can't agree with. The one that I can't agree with the most is probably the Department of Education thing, specifically abolishing it and giving full power to the States.

So what does the NS General community think about this? After all, the Department of Education did do some stupid [REDACTED] like pass No Child Left Behind or focus on the Self-Esteem movement a decade ago. But on the other hand, the Department of Education does facilitate education on a federal level.

While I do see the logic behind the Freedman style "Political power is better with the state rather than the government, better with the locality rather than the state" argument (paraphrased), I don't believe that the US should abolish its DoE.

Even if you don't agree with establishing uniform standards across the nation, and support states' discretionary rights, the DoE is needed in order to ensure integration with other states' education systems, and also to manage international students, be they for basic education, or higher education.

[Abatael]

It should.

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

[Sarkhaan]

...we don't have that. Not even close.

Dodd and Kennedy were going to propose a voluntary (read: tied to funding) national curriculum. That's about the closest we've ever gotten.

Oh, I definitely recognize that. But going in the opposite direction won't help things.

Ahh...gotcha. I had the feeling that you recognized that, but I was on a solid role of "That isn't how the DoE works, dammit!".

[Individuality-ness]

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

Technically you're paying for it with your tax dollars, so...

[Laeriland]

Hell no. Without someone to make sure that some standards of education are actually kept you might see the Americans really start as a whole living up to their (not always deserved) reputation of being dunces.

[Abatael]

I forgot to comment on this, I do not believe the states should be put in charge of education either.

[Keron]

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

Do you believe in equality of opportunity?

[Sarkhaan]

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

People are not educated for free, as there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Education is paid for via property taxes primarily, with free delivery at the point of service. We all pay into the system in the form of taxes, of which we would have far less of were it not for having a large, educated workforce.

[Nua Corda]

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

People need to be educated in order to make money in today's world. Free education is the most integral part of giving everyone an equal start in life. This ain't 1776, bro.

[Alowwvia]

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

Everyone deserves an equal opportunity. Click this link if you disagree.

[Abatael]

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

Technically you're paying for it with your tax dollars, so...

Which translates to a number of services, not this exclusively. Anyways, you can still get in even without paying taxes.

[Keron]

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

People are not educated for free, as there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Education is paid for via property taxes primarily, with free delivery at the point of service. We all pay into the system in the form of taxes, of which we would have far less of were it not for having a large, educated workforce.

With his broader point being that we shouldn't be forced to pay for public education. Why nitpick like this?

[Grave_n_idle]

If anything, exactly the opposite. Give the DoE some teeth.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

I don't care what they 'deserve'.

You've got to make a choice - either you want an uneducated underclass that you've got to constantly support, or you want a population filled with educated potential workers. I choose the second.

[Abatael]

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

Do you believe in equality of opportunity?

Like, does it exist?

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

People are not educated for free, as there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Education is paid for via property taxes primarily, with free delivery at the point of service. We all pay into the system in the form of taxes, of which we would have far less of were it not for having a large, educated workforce.

Education is not lunch, and, in fact, public schools do offer free or reduced lunch. (They offer both.)

Not everyone pays taxes.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

People need to be educated in order to make money in today's world. Free education is the most integral part of giving everyone an equal start in life. This ain't 1776, bro.

This should no be of the concern of the state.

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

Everyone deserves an equal opportunity. Click this link if you disagree.

No one deserves anything from the government.

[Individuality-ness]

Technically you're paying for it with your tax dollars, so...

Which translates to a number of services, not this exclusively. Anyways, you can still get in even without paying taxes.

A large percentage of property taxes are often allocated to public education. And even if you don't pay it at the moment, the idea is that you will get a job, a house, and start paying property taxes to support said public education. So you're not getting it for free.

[Alowwvia]

Do you believe in equality of opportunity?

Like, does it exist?

People are not educated for free, as there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Education is paid for via property taxes primarily, with free delivery at the point of service. We all pay into the system in the form of taxes, of which we would have far less of were it not for having a large, educated workforce.

Education is not lunch, and, in fact, public schools do offer free or reduced lunch. (They offer both.)

Not everyone pays taxes.

People need to be educated in order to make money in today's world. Free education is the most integral part of giving everyone an equal start in life. This ain't 1776, bro.

This should no be of the concern of the state.

Everyone deserves an equal opportunity. Click this link if you disagree.

No one deserves anything from the government.

So it's alright for the government to make you do anything it wants to then? Because governments are infallible?

[Abatael]

No, people do not deserve to be educated for free.

I don't care what they 'deserve'.

You've got to make a choice - either you want an uneducated underclass that you've got to constantly support, or you want a population filled with educated potential workers. I choose the second.

Funny, I don't care about what they (or think they deserve) deserve either.

Everyone is a potential worker, regardless of an education.

[Sarkhaan]

Technically you're paying for it with your tax dollars, so...

Which translates to a number of services, not this exclusively. Anyways, you can still get in even without paying taxes.

So because I went to the store and spent $200, my milk was "free" because I spent that money on lots of things and really, the milk was pretty cheap so we're just going to call it free?

Because I'm pretty sure I still spent $3 for it. And I'm pretty sure we spent a sum total 77.39 billion at the federal level alone. Trust, education ain't free.

[Nua Corda]

People need to be educated in order to make money in today's world. Free education is the most integral part of giving everyone an equal start in life. This ain't 1776, bro.

This should no be of the concern of the state.

So, basically the trust-fund babies get all the jobs, the poor people get even more fucked, and the middle class becomes the new poor. Sounds like your typical right-wing agenda.

[Grave_n_idle]

I don't care what they 'deserve'.

You've got to make a choice - either you want an uneducated underclass that you've got to constantly support, or you want a population filled with educated potential workers. I choose the second.

Funny, I don't care about what they (or think they deserve) deserve either.

Everyone is a potential worker, regardless of an education.

Which is why I specified 'educated potential workers'.

Even farming is a computerised industry now. There's simply no advantage to keeping people stupid unless you're trying to install a despotism over them.

[Abatael]

Which translates to a number of services, not this exclusively. Anyways, you can still get in even without paying taxes.

A large percentage of property taxes are often allocated to public education. And even if you don't pay it at the moment, the idea is that you will get a job, a house, and start paying property taxes to support said public education. So you're not getting it for free.

Ideas are not the same as the application of the idea. There are a number of people, who don't pay taxes.

Like, does it exist?



Education is not lunch, and, in fact, public schools do offer free or reduced lunch. (They offer both.)

Not everyone pays taxes.



This should no be of the concern of the state.



No one deserves anything from the government.

So it's alright for the government to make you do anything it wants to then? Because governments are infallible?

The government is the monopoly of authority in this region, so they can do whatever they want. Governments are not necessarily infallible, but they can do whatever they want. This does not mean there can be no resistance to what they do though.

This should no be of the concern of the state.

So, basically the trust-fund babies get all the jobs, the poor people get even more fucked, and the middle class becomes the new poor. Sounds like your typical right-wing agenda.

The elite take any position requiring education, and the uneducated take whatever jobs that the elite want done.

[Nua Corda]

Funny, I don't care about what they (or think they deserve) deserve either.

Everyone is a potential worker, regardless of an education.

Which is why I specified 'educated potential workers'.

Even farming is a computerised industry now. There's simply no advantage to keeping people stupid unless you're trying to install a despotism over them.

I imagine that's his goal. Except it wouldn't be the Monarchy of Divine Right, it'll be the Oligarchy of the Oh-So-Holy Job Creators.