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Difference between Modern Liberal and Social Democracy?

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Tresten
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Difference between Modern Liberal and Social Democracy?

Postby Tresten » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:45 pm

Both seem to want a welfare state, is the difference between them just the quantity of welfare they want? Also, how does this vary from centrism?

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Fintanland
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Postby Fintanland » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:47 pm

Tresten wrote:Both seem to want a welfare state, is the difference between them just the quantity of welfare they want? Also, how does this vary from centrism?

Depends on a lot of things. First of all, the American definition of liberal is very different from the European one... then, the US seem shifted to the right altogether compared to Europe. Many ideas considered centrist here would be considered left over on the wrong side of the Atlantic ( :p )
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Postby Divair » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:50 pm

Fintanland wrote:
Tresten wrote:Both seem to want a welfare state, is the difference between them just the quantity of welfare they want? Also, how does this vary from centrism?

Depends on a lot of things. First of all, the American definition of liberal is very different from the European one... then, the US seem shifted to the right altogether compared to Europe. Many ideas considered centrist here would be considered left over on the wrong side of the Atlantic ( :p )

Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

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Postby Fintanland » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:53 pm

Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

Yes, very likely. Our social democrats would cause soiled pants over in the states. Just as much of the American right-wing rhethoric is nonsensically chauvinist to us.
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Tresten
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Postby Tresten » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:55 pm

Divair wrote:
Fintanland wrote:Depends on a lot of things. First of all, the American definition of liberal is very different from the European one... then, the US seem shifted to the right altogether compared to Europe. Many ideas considered centrist here would be considered left over on the wrong side of the Atlantic ( :p )

Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.


Then i'd say Modern Liberal is Center Right (considered left), Social Democracy is Center Left (considered far left).

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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:22 pm

Divair wrote:
Fintanland wrote:Depends on a lot of things. First of all, the American definition of liberal is very different from the European one... then, the US seem shifted to the right altogether compared to Europe. Many ideas considered centrist here would be considered left over on the wrong side of the Atlantic ( :p )

Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?
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Postby 4years » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:23 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?


Right-wing loon.
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Postby Fintanland » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:23 pm

Genivaria wrote:What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?

Those obnoxious American tourists nobody likes?
But seriously, they would be far-right. There was a party called the Republicans in Germany for some time. While they were more openly racist, they at least claimed some relation to the US Republicans. They were considered ridiculously far right.
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Postby Divair » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:24 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?

Far-right.

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Postby Herrebrugh » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:27 pm

Divair wrote:
Genivaria wrote:What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?

Far-right.


Deffo.

I'd compare them to the most right-wing party in the Dutch Second Chamber, the State Reformed Party (or, as I like to call it, the batshit crazy Christian party).

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Postby Salandriagado » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:28 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?


Joke party.
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Postby Camelza » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:29 pm

Divair wrote:
Genivaria wrote:What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?

Far-right.

Nah,I think they would be one of those parties that pose as very conservative and democrasy-loving right-wingers but love Mussolini deep inside(see:FN,UKIP,True Finns etc).
Last edited by Camelza on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Libera Patria » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:30 pm

I'm a Norwegian Liberal. The Liberal Party here (Social liberal party) is a centrist party, and usually aligns itself with the centre-right Conservative party, which is European liberal-conservative (liberal by US standards). Liberals here want lower taxes, though not fanatically so. We want it to be easier to choose private options in education and healthcare. A lot of the focus is on small businesses, etc etc.
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Postby Forster Keys » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?


I'd be surprised if the Republicans could get a seat in Australia.
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Postby Voerdeland » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Divair wrote:
Fintanland wrote:Depends on a lot of things. First of all, the American definition of liberal is very different from the European one... then, the US seem shifted to the right altogether compared to Europe. Many ideas considered centrist here would be considered left over on the wrong side of the Atlantic ( :p )

Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

The problem is that Europe has shifted to the right, and thus our political spectrum no longer resembles that presented at Political Compass.

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Postby Chestaan » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:33 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?


Insane. They would never have a chance of getting elected in Europe.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:34 pm

Voerdeland wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

The problem is that Europe has shifted to the right, and thus our political spectrum no longer resembles that presented at Political Compass.

Lol no.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 pm

Chestaan wrote:
Genivaria wrote:What would the Republicans be considered in Europe?


Insane. They would never have a chance of getting elected in Europe.

I'm sure the BNP would welcome them. But everyone hates the BNP.
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."-Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Idealism is not looking at the world only as we'd like it to be, it is seeing the world for what it is, as well as what it could be.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 pm

Voerdeland wrote:
Divair wrote:Centrist would be far-left in the USA. Center-right would be left wing.

The problem is that Europe has shifted to the right, and thus our political spectrum no longer resembles that presented at Political Compass.

You mean the USA shifted to the right...

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Forster Keys
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Postby Forster Keys » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:37 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Chestaan wrote:
Insane. They would never have a chance of getting elected in Europe.

I'm sure the BNP would welcome them. But everyone hates the BNP.


Not really. They're too pro-business for the BNP.
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Forster Keys
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Postby Forster Keys » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:37 pm

Divair wrote:
Voerdeland wrote:The problem is that Europe has shifted to the right, and thus our political spectrum no longer resembles that presented at Political Compass.

You mean the USA shifted to the right...


Europe has too. But more of a drift rather than a careening off the road.
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Fintanland
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Postby Fintanland » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Forster Keys wrote:Not really. They're too pro-business for the BNP.

Yeah, our racist parties are often pretty controlling of the economy. I guess it is because they are, deep down, populists and want to appeal to the masses. Not that all social democracy is populist (hell, I am a social democrat), but because it is easy to unite the people against the "fat cats".
Pro: Communists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, football supporters, namby- pamby probation officers, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue- sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants

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Voerdeland
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Postby Voerdeland » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Divair wrote:
Voerdeland wrote:The problem is that Europe has shifted to the right, and thus our political spectrum no longer resembles that presented at Political Compass.

You mean the USA shifted to the right...

No, I mean that Europe is no longer as left-wing as it used to be. Even though Europe's political spectrum is more left-wing than the American one, it is still more right-wing than the Political Compass. What is "objectively" centrist is centre-left in Europe, and left-wing/far-left in USA.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:39 pm

Forster Keys wrote:
Divair wrote:You mean the USA shifted to the right...


Europe has too. But more of a drift rather than a careening off the road.

RightWARDS perhaps they're certainly not Rightwing.
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."-Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Idealism is not looking at the world only as we'd like it to be, it is seeing the world for what it is, as well as what it could be.
Cynicism is only seeing what it is.

Attending Gary Job Corps, NS access will be infrequent and random for the foreseeable future.

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Forster Keys
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Postby Forster Keys » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:40 pm

Fintanland wrote:
Forster Keys wrote:Not really. They're too pro-business for the BNP.

Yeah, our racist parties are often pretty controlling of the economy. I guess it is because they are, deep down, populists and want to appeal to the masses. Not that all social democracy is populist (hell, I am a social democrat), but because it is easy to unite the people against the "fat cats".


I daresay you're correct.
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