Suicide and You

[The God-Realm]

I briefly considered it when I was in middle school.

Yup, that's the same time period I attempted it....a few times.

I just tried to run away from home, I got as far as Nambia once.

I attempted it first when I was 17, luckily my brother was there to stop me.

[Arumdaum]

I don't think it's cowardice. I mean, is there really a point in living your life if it's not going to amount to anything? If all that's going to happen is just suffering?

[Samuraikoku]

Its immoral. It is a repudiation of the image of God.

What do you mean by this specifically?

God created people in his own image, attempting to destroy God's image is immoral.

[IshCong]

Suicide is a very sad, terrible thing. I've had quite a few family members commit suicide. I'd be lying if I said the thought of it never crossed my mind, or the thought of how much of a relief it would be to fall asleep and not have to wake up to shit anymore.......

But ultimately, if I commit suicide, what does it mean? I couldn't deal with life anymore, so I gave up? I'm better off than most people, and most of those people aren't commiting suicide.

For me, suicide is basically "I give up." Which, if you wish to give up, that's fine, it's your choice. But what do you acomplish? Nothing.... Sure, you're no longer in pain, but now......you're gone.

No longer being in pain that is sufficiently drastic so as to drive a person to want to end their life is not "Nothing". It's quite a lot, matter of fact.

No longer do you have any signifigance in the world, except in the hearts of those who loved you, who are now shocked and heart broken.

Suicide is not an individual act, it effects everyone around you.

Those people have no monopoly over the body of others. While it is worth noting the effects it has on those around you should you commit suicide, that is not necessarily a reason not to commit suicide, nor necessarily a sufficient reason in itself.

I'll summarize the content of my babble: I see suicide as the "I quit" of life. But it is in a way selfish, because it doesn't just affect you, but those around you as well. I don't condemn those who commit suicide, but I do think it is defeatist and a bit selfish.

At the end of my life on this planet, I want to be able to say "I did it! I lived life to the fullest and did my best," not "I gave up."

Yes, yes, more stigmatization of those who want to end their life, while managing to avoid addressing several of the most common reasons why people commit suicide (such as overwhelming physical pain or a mental illness)! ~,~
*This poster is not amused.*

[Azrael]

I agree.
But all you have to accept is that it's possible for a person to be such a huge asshole that their family and friends might be better off if they were dead, and the depressed will THINK THEY ARE THAT BAD.
It's a horrible experience to be consistently awash with self-loathing.

Well, It depends on what lead the individual to contemplate suicide. I didn't feel like I was a "monster", I just felt as if I was worthless.

I once looked at it as a decision of whether or not life is something that I never wanted and was bestowed upon me without my consent, and I should have the right to continue living the life I have been given or to end it because I have the right to do so. If I don't want to live, then I don't want to live.

[Ostroeuropa]

Attempted 5 times.
Six if you count an immediate attempt after the 3rd attempt looked botched. (it's very hard to drink some types of chemicals, and an immediate retry occured.)

All by chemical ingestion of one kind of another.

[Alaje]

Yup, that's the same time period I attempted it....a few times.

I just tried to run away from home, I got as far as Nambia once.

I attempted it first when I was 17, luckily my brother was there to stop me.

Where do you live? How did you get there?

Most importantly what lead to to attempt it?

[The Nuclear Fist]

As a person who has attempted to commit suicide in the past, I can state without a shred of doubt that you, Alaje, have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Surprise, dear, hate to break it to you. The ending one of one's life is a deeply serious and strenuous time, and it takes a depth of deprevatity and courage most people don't reach to seriously attempt it.

So take your 'suicide is cowardice' horseshit somewhere else, please.

[Reggae Magmia]

That's the problem though. The effect it has on your friends and family will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

I agree.
But all you have to accept is that it's possible for a person to be such a huge asshole that their family and friends might be better off if they were dead, and the depressed will THINK THEY ARE THAT BAD.
It's a horrible experience to be consistently awash with self-loathing.

Yes, i can see how that would happen. In fact, I was almost at that point myself (well, I never felt like a asshole, but i felt useless).

[The God-Realm]

I don't think it's cowardice. I mean, is there really a point in living your life if it's not going to amount to anything? If all that's going to happen is just suffering?

You have to keep going. You don't know if your life will be pure pain.

[IshCong]

Speaking from experience, typically a depressed person views themselves as monstrous or inherently flawed and evil. (One of the red flags a psychological examination will throw up is if someone awnsers "no." on the "Are you a good person?" question.)
The reasoning often goes that while the suicide will be a negative effect on those around them that a short sudden trauma is better for your friends and family to endure than your long-term existance.

That's the problem though. The effect it has on your friends and family will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

Which does not give them a monopoly on one's body or actions. Every action you take will stay with your friends and family for the rest of their lives. That doesn't mean you are relegated to a puppet dancing on strings for their amusement, that your actions are limited to those which won't possibly/maybe upset someone.
And, of course, it ignores what Ostroeuropa is saying, which is that for some of these people, they feel their family and friends will be happier and better off if they're dead.

[The USOT]

What do you mean by this specifically?

God created people in his own image, attempting to destroy God's image is immoral.

But that is so vague and encompasses so much...
By that logic a Tattoo is immoral.
Going through Chemotherapy causes great harm to and destroys the body in many ways etc.

[Samuraikoku]

God created people in his own image, attempting to destroy God's image is immoral.

But that is so vague and encompasses so much...
By that logic a Tattoo is immoral.
Going through Chemotherapy causes great harm to and destroys the body in many ways etc.

I'm not the one defending that stance, though.

I maintain that people have their lives to do as they wish. Morality isn't concerned in the matter.

And given I brought seppuku, I wouldn't consider Samurai stupid for ending their own lives. Much more so given the example of Torii Mototada.

Once again I cannot say I have thought about it, because I've never been to that point - and hopefully I never am. But I would say that if I had nothing more to live for I would probably consider it.

[IshCong]

What do you mean by this specifically?

God created people in his own image, attempting to destroy God's image is immoral.

With all due respect, quite a lot of Humanity isn't theistic, so for many, this doesn't exactly factor into how they perceive life or themselves.

EDIT: And I post this before seeing the one immediately preceding it.

[Alaje]

As a person who has attempted to commit suicide in the past, I can state without a shred of doubt that you, Alaje, have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Surprise, dear, hate to break it to you. The ending one of one's life is a deeply serious and strenuous time, and it takes a depth of deprevatity and courage most people don't reach to seriously attempt it.

So take your 'suicide is cowardice' horseshit somewhere else, please.

I, in no manner, take this topic lightly. I myself have been on the brink of committing suicide, and I know about the thoughts that go through a suicidal person's head. The whole point of me making this thread to to see other people experiences and perceptions seperate from mine.

[IshCong]

I don't think it's cowardice. I mean, is there really a point in living your life if it's not going to amount to anything? If all that's going to happen is just suffering?

You have to keep going. You don't know if your life will be pure pain.

No, you don't, you don't have to do anything.
You also don't know that your life won't be pure pain.
At any rate, your life is quite possibly pure pain now. Should you suffer for a decade or more on the off-chance life might possibly sorta get kinda better later?

[Moving Forward Inc]

What do you mean by this specifically?

God created people in his own image, attempting to destroy God's image is immoral.

God does not exist.

[Arumdaum]

I don't think it's cowardice. I mean, is there really a point in living your life if it's not going to amount to anything? If all that's going to happen is just suffering?

You have to keep going. You don't know if your life will be pure pain.

Why do you have to keep going? You can make educated guesses.

[Nadkor]

About three weeks ago my mother tried to kill herself and is currently in a secure psychiatric ward. I have, in the past, attempted to commit suicide. I don't think suicide good, or bad, or brave, or cowardly, or whatever. I don't think there's any moral judgement you can make on it.

I think it's sad, I think it's something that people who are desperately unhappy and don't see any other way out try, and I feel enormously for people who are driven to it.

That's it.

[Almaniania]

You can't master life if you end it, suicide is the highest expression of cowardice.

You can't master life anyway if you're going to die of old age.
Suicide is the highest expression of being realistic.

No it isn't. That isn't productive for society at all. Not only that, you miss a lot of cool things in life that you may end up missing. Also, there's the portion of inflicting brutal mental pain on friends and family members that is far worse than that of peaceful death.

That being said, we should try to work to stop suicide and improve society. People sometimes forget that second part when stopping a suicide... the "improving" part. However, we can only attempt to dissuade someone from committing suicide. The choice is ultimately theirs.

Personally, I have only been driven to the planning stages. However, I would often dream more of running away to someplace nice for a while... and then that usually brings my head back to reality.

[Reggae Magmia]

That's the problem though. The effect it has on your friends and family will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

Which does not give them a monopoly on one's body or actions. Every action you take will stay with your friends and family for the rest of their lives. That doesn't mean you are relegated to a puppet dancing on strings for their amusement, that your actions are limited to those which won't possibly/maybe upset someone.
And, of course, it ignores what Ostroeuropa is saying, which is that for some of these people, they feel their family and friends will be happier and better off if they're dead.

Please, please show me where I even suggested this idea. I'll give you everything I own if you can show me where I stated that I actually support such a monopoly.

My point was that it doesn't just effect you. I commonly hear "It only effects me, why does it matter?" I was simply stating why such thinking is false

[Wisconsin9]

If your almighty God is going to put people into positions where they feel that life is so bleak and hopeless that the best thing they could do is end it, and then he says it's wrong, then he's a hypocritical asshole who deserves to go and die in a hole.

[IshCong]

You can't master life anyway if you're going to die of old age.
Suicide is the highest expression of being realistic.

No it isn't. That isn't productive for society at all.

Society can take a hike. What an individual does is not dictated by what is best for society, else freedom is dead.

Not only that, you miss a lot of cool things in life that you may end up missing.

Or you miss a lot of ever more painful things. That sword, it cuts both ways.

Also, there's the portion of inflicting brutal mental pain on friends and family members that is far worse than that of peaceful death.

As Ostroeuropa has attested, many feel that ending their lives will make their family and friends happier and/or better off. For others, people are not puppets relegated to dancing on strings so as to make those around them happy at the expense of their own needs or happiness. That's a horrible, horrible thing to suggest.

That being said, we should try to work to stop suicide and improve society. People sometimes forget that second part when stopping a suicide... the "improving" part. However, we can only attempt to dissuade someone from committing suicide. The choice is ultimately theirs.

Yes, the choice is theirs, and should remain as such. And more things should be done to help stop the stigmatization of anyone who contemplates suicide, help those who can be helped, and speak frankly with the others rather than just going "AHH! NO! SUICIDE! BAD!"

[Nazi Flower Power]

I have, admittedly, considered suicide on numerous occasions. Ironically, the thing preventing me from definitively fleeing my fears of the pain and failure in my life has been my fear of death.

I hate and despise my life, no matter my efforts to try to improve it, I seem to achieve nothing but further misery. Honestly, if I was not so much of a coward, I'd be dead.

Well, that's suicide and I.

How long has this been going on, and have you sought psychiatric help?

I ask how long it's been going on because I see a lot of young NSers criticize themselves for how little they've achieved, but it's just because they haven't been around long enough to achieve much.

@OP: I wouldn't advise anyone to commit suicide, but I can understand it in cases where someone is terminally ill with a painful illness or other situations where someone legitimately has nothing to look forward to.

When I was in high school and the first couple years of college, I considered suicide. I'm very much over it now.

[Emporer Pudu]

"He was counted among the suicides. And here it must be said that to call suicides only those who actually destroy themselves is false."

"Of those who are counted among the suicides by the very nature of their beings are many, perhaps a majority, who never in fact lay hands on themselves."

"What is peculiar to the suicide is that his ego, rightly or wrongly, is felt to be an extremely dangerous, dubious, and doomed germ of nature; that he is always in his eyes exposed to an extraordinary risk, as though he stood with the slightest foothold on the peak of a crag whence a slight push from without or an instant's weakness from within suffices to precipitate him into the void. The line of fate in the case of these men is marked by the belief they have that suicide is their most probable manner of death. It might be presumed that such temperaments, which usually manifest themselves in early youth and persist through life, show a singular defect of vital force. On the contrary, among the "suicides" are to be found unusually tenacious and eager and also hardy natures."

"I am curious to see all the same just how much a man can endure. If the limit of what is bearable is reached, I have only to open the door to escape. There are a great many suicides to whom this thought imparts an uncommon strength."

This essentially is Herman Hesse's idea of the suicide as a personality type, taken from his novel Steppenwolf. The point is essentially that a suicide is someone who understands that suicide is an option, holding on to it as a comfort, despite many of these suicides never taking that leap. He also points out that not all those who commit suicide belong to this type, these he calls "accidents".

I like to combine this with Albert Camus' thoughts on suicide in the theory of absurdism. Absurdism is basically the understanding that the most vital aspect of life is the inquiry into the nature of existence and the universe, and yet the universe is eternally silent in the face of these inquiries. To an absurdist suicide is to prematurely end the encounter between the human life and the universe, and therefore this cannot be an acceptable course of action.