The Pagan Discussion Thread

[The USOT]

You said that you find Paganism to be ridiculous. Know that there are many here who find your faith to be just as ridiculous as Paganism. We're just too polite to phrase it that way.

Read what you quote.

My faith in God is a fortress that cannot be sieged.

Say what you want, it doesn't change a thing. I didn't post to convert, I posted to state an opinion on the subject matter. Don't attempt to derail the thread.

What is the point of posting if you are essentially going to say "Here is my oppinion! there is no point critiquing it!". This is a debate forum. Thats what we do here, so when you make claims to a religion being more rediculous than another, then you are setting criteria from which a claim that is relevant to the thread is created.
This has nothing to do with your apparent closed mindedness (and I dont mean "be open to paganism" by that but I mean an absaloute faith which you wont evaluate)

[Calimera II]

Are there actually people who believe in this..

[Big Jim P]

Are there actually people who believe in this..

Yes there are, and it has been my experience that they are usually more worth knowing than the average lot of humans.

[The USOT]

Are there actually people who believe in this..

considering the majority of people on the planet are religious, surely you are aware that people hold crazy beleifs?

[Calimera II]

Hmm interesting.

[The USOT]

Are there actually people who believe in this..

Yes there are, and it has been my experience that they are usually more worth knowing than the average lot of humans.

Actually I can entirely agree with this. The pagans I have met tend to not only be lovely and honest people, but also some of the most passionate people ive ever met.
Crazy beleifs, epic culture.

[Thisbia]

Are there actually people who believe in this..

People can make comments like this as the christian empire has bullied man's thinking and interfered with science for so long, and science and reasoning has fought back for so long, that it is ingrained in everyone now that the only two choices is abrahamic religion or atheism. But if you study quantum physics you see that there has to be a higher power, many in fact but no gods. And archaeology proves that the hebrews not only were pagan, but were the descendants of the Sumerians. Of course not many pagans know these things either but its all coming out slowly now.

[The Truth and Light]

I'm a pantheistic New Ager... not really a pagan, though there was a recent time where I was interested in Wicca.

[Thisbia]

I'm a pantheistic New Ager... not really a pagan, though there was a recent time where I was interested in Wicca.

Me too, but then I learned that gardner and buckland just made shit up incorporating rosicrucian and masonic rituals, to promote a religion marketable to the people. At this point in time, I don't think any religion has got it right. But I firmly believe in quantum superpositions, entities and the power of vibrations.

[Novograd IV]

I consider myself pagan of some description, based off of north and north-west European faiths, but I've never really gotten into a specific classification that I felt was a proper fit, I'll admit I haven't really done much research into it but I figured that you guys could help with that, which you have.
(still, any more links and names would be awesome at any time)


I'm also part of a small LARP system that's based around a high fantasy setting, which draws massively on animism and paganism for all it's spiritual aspects (which make up most of the game lore).
Being a Character that's now technically ascended to a 'plot leader' inside the first year, and as a Cleric-Druid following the goddess of wisdom, I've become a religious figure of sorts. Players talk to me a lot more and expect answers, I feel like I need to have a higher quality of religious understanding so I can deliver a better character.

So, without trying to trivialise paganism in any way, I want to ask what kind of sources would me most appropriate for my position. I don't mind some heavy reading. (I had a browse through for the Poetic Eddas once, but I can't find the one good file I had of it anymore)

[The USOT]

I consider myself pagan of some description, based off of north and north-west European faiths, but I've never really gotten into a specific classification that I felt was a proper fit, I'll admit I haven't really done much research into it but I figured that you guys could help with that, which you have.
(still, any more links and names would be awesome at any time)


I'm also part of a small LARP system that's based around a high fantasy setting, which draws massively on animism and paganism for all it's spiritual aspects (which make up most of the game lore).
Being a Character that's now technically ascended to a 'plot leader' inside the first year, and as a Cleric-Druid following the goddess of wisdom, I've become a religious figure of sorts. Players talk to me a lot more and expect answers, I feel like I need to have a higher quality of religious understanding so I can deliver a better character.

So, without trying to trivialise paganism in any way, I want to ask what kind of sources would me most appropriate for my position. I don't mind some heavy reading. (I had a browse through for the Poetic Eddas once, but I can't find the one good file I had of it anymore)

Whilst not a pagan myself, there are numerous interesting sources to look for when studying pagan faiths.
In terms of better understanding, I would reccomend the Oddsey and the Illiad. Whilst they are by no means a "bible" of paganism, they are perfect examples of how pagan faiths often viewed their gods and the manner in which they spoke about them, often linked to complimenting them in the manner of "techne". E.g. to use the Norse as an example, Loki could be viewed as a deceitful trickster yes (so bad in terms of honour) but a divine trickster rather than altogether "good" or "evil" as many monotheistic faiths tended to be (in a similar way, Zues is divine in justice, but we mortals may not like his justice).

Its also important to understand that (especially in aspects of classical paganism) the idea of deities with personalities who had a personal relationship with the follower is much more of a thing. Druids for instance supposedly felt like they walked with the spirits in their dreams, and The Illiad suggests quite clearly that all dreams, nevermind their content are sent specifically by Zues.

The poetic Edda is by all means a good source into specifically the northern religions (for which this is a free online source as you said you had lost yours http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/, but I feel The Illiad would give you a greater flavour of the mindset of european paganism in general. The main flaw of the Edda is that it was written after many of the traditions and religion had died out as well as the nature of ancient Asatru faith. It being a series of traditions passed down vocally and improved upon by poets means that by the time it was collected into the Edda a lot of the stories could have been changed dramatically to the point the ancient Norse would not have recognised them. The Illiad on the other hand is contemporary.

As said im not an expert and more of an "armchair theologan" when it comes to pagan faiths so dont just take my word for it but I hope I helped

[Novograd IV]

Whilst not a pagan myself, there are numerous interesting sources to look for when studying pagan faiths.
In terms of better understanding, I would reccomend the Oddsey and the Illiad. Whilst they are by no means a "bible" of paganism, they are perfect examples of how pagan faiths often viewed their gods and the manner in which they spoke about them, often linked to complimenting them in the manner of "techne". E.g. to use the Norse as an example, Loki could be viewed as a deceitful trickster yes (so bad in terms of honour) but a divine trickster rather than altogether "good" or "evil" as many monotheistic faiths tended to be (in a similar way, Zues is divine in justice, but we mortals may not like his justice).

Its also important to understand that (especially in aspects of classical paganism) the idea of deities with personalities who had a personal relationship with the follower is much more of a thing. Druids for instance supposedly felt like they walked with the spirits in their dreams, and The Illiad suggests quite clearly that all dreams, nevermind their content are sent specifically by Zues.

The poetic Edda is by all means a good source into specifically the northern religions (for which this is a free online source as you said you had lost yours http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/, but I feel The Illiad would give you a greater flavour of the mindset of european paganism in general. The main flaw of the Edda is that it was written after many of the traditions and religion had died out as well as the nature of ancient Asatru faith. It being a series of traditions passed down vocally and improved upon by poets means that by the time it was collected into the Edda a lot of the stories could have been changed dramatically to the point the ancient Norse would not have recognised them. The Illiad on the other hand is contemporary.

As said im not an expert and more of an "armchair theologan" when it comes to pagan faiths so dont just take my word for it but I hope I helped

Thank you.

*rushes off to check out sources*

[Forster Keys]

The Book of Invasions perhaps too?

Well I'm not entirely sure.You might not like to hear it, but Isaac Bonewitz does differentiate between reconstructionist practices and non-reconstructionist in some of his writing.I also will not and cannot reccomend the Lebor Feasa Runda. Primarily because it's a hoax.It has some useful stuff in it, but I cannot call it reconstructionist.

What do you mean? I'm aware that it's most likely predominately mythological rather than historical in nature.

[Faolinn]

Well I'm not entirely sure.You might not like to hear it, but Isaac Bonewitz does differentiate between reconstructionist practices and non-reconstructionist in some of his writing.I also will not and cannot reccomend the Lebor Feasa Runda. Primarily because it's a hoax.It has some useful stuff in it, but I cannot call it reconstructionist.

What do you mean? I'm aware that it's most likely predominately mythological rather than historical in nature.

Regardless of whether many of the important old legends are recorded therein, it's everything else that's suspect, especially with the rather extraordinary claims made by the man responsible for it.I believe in many things, but I can tell when claims of such things are fraudulent.I am not blind to the ways of the mundane.

[Melas]

I really never got into paganism and I dislike the term.Propably cause there it is a general term of lots of religions from different cultures and timelines who have no connections with each other.

Personally,I come from Greece and I have heard of people who still follow the old religion but have not met any (there are not many of them) I was raised as an Orthodox,became an atheist for a while and now I am orthodox again.

Your story about [i]The Healer[/i] really got me interested in researching though I never had anything similliar happen to me (or did I ) at least I dont remember anything.

Do you have more info on this story,like why he came in your dreams?

[Melas]

If you read my signature you will see that the 72 Goetia Spirits is the Pagan belief of our people.

This is OOC you are in the wrong forum boy

[The USOT]

I really never got into paganism and I dislike the term.Propably cause there it is a general term of lots of religions from different cultures and timelines who have no connections with each other.

Personally,I come from Greece and I have heard of people who still follow the old religion but have not met any (there are not many of them) I was raised as an Orthodox,became an atheist for a while and now I am orthodox again.

Your story about [i]The Healer[/i] really got me interested in researching though I never had anything similliar happen to me (or did I ) at least I dont remember anything.

Do you have more info on this story,like why he came in your dreams?

Paganism is a general term, specifically because it is a general religion.
If memory serves me correctly, paganism tends to refer to a national religion which tends to be animist or polytheist in nature (with individual and tribal gods being totally acceptable from one tribe to the next).
Your statement about them not being linked is entirely false. Most can draw lineage back all the way to deities first espoused in the Sumerian faith, which migrated in terms of its ideas through to the Indus valley and into europe through the middle east and the mediterranian.
This is one of the reason why the Roman empire was able to assimilate so many religions. They had such links that it was often the concencus that they were alternate stories/names for the same deity (often being very accurate, with the carthaginians honouring hercules and a few linked hellenic traditions) or being accepted as primitive or regional deities (which happened the further north you go).
Indeed even in the non mediterranian societies we see plenty of crossing of faith. Many of the druidic traditions of the british ilse can be found in the scandinavian faiths which spread into the slavic traditions for instance.

Pagan is often a useful way to describe these crossing religions, in the same way that we often describe religions with an indus valley basis as "Vedic" and those referring to Yahweh as "Abrahamic", especially with their strong historical links (in the same way much of "chinese folk religion" intertwines with confucianism with the heavenly beauracracy to the point where often neo-confucianism and confucianism are interchangable).

[Melas]

I really never got into paganism and I dislike the term.Propably cause there it is a general term of lots of religions from different cultures and timelines who have no connections with each other.

Personally,I come from Greece and I have heard of people who still follow the old religion but have not met any (there are not many of them) I was raised as an Orthodox,became an atheist for a while and now I am orthodox again.

Your story about [i]The Healer[/i] really got me interested in researching though I never had anything similliar happen to me (or did I ) at least I dont remember anything.

Do you have more info on this story,like why he came in your dreams?

Paganism is a general term, specifically because it is a general religion.
If memory serves me correctly, paganism tends to refer to a national religion which tends to be animist or polytheist in nature (with individual and tribal gods being totally acceptable from one tribe to the next).
Your statement about them not being linked is entirely false. Most can draw lineage back all the way to deities first espoused in the Sumerian faith, which migrated in terms of its ideas through to the Indus valley and into europe through the middle east and the mediterranian.
This is one of the reason why the Roman empire was able to assimilate so many religions. They had such links that it was often the concencus that they were alternate stories/names for the same deity (often being very accurate, with the carthaginians honouring hercules and a few linked hellenic traditions) or being accepted as primitive or regional deities (which happened the further north you go).
Indeed even in the non mediterranian societies we see plenty of crossing of faith. Many of the druidic traditions of the british ilse can be found in the scandinavian faiths which spread into the slavic traditions for instance.

Pagan is often a useful way to describe these crossing religions, in the same way that we often describe religions with an indus valley basis as "Vedic" and those referring to Yahweh as "Abrahamic", especially with their strong historical links (in the same way much of "chinese folk religion" intertwines with confucianism with the heavenly beauracracy to the point where often neo-confucianism and confucianism are interchangable).

It still is a redicusly general term and even though we can see similliarities bewteen various faiths (zeus and thor etc) there are some who dont share that many links

[The USOT]

Paganism is a general term, specifically because it is a general religion.
If memory serves me correctly, paganism tends to refer to a national religion which tends to be animist or polytheist in nature (with individual and tribal gods being totally acceptable from one tribe to the next).
Your statement about them not being linked is entirely false. Most can draw lineage back all the way to deities first espoused in the Sumerian faith, which migrated in terms of its ideas through to the Indus valley and into europe through the middle east and the mediterranian.
This is one of the reason why the Roman empire was able to assimilate so many religions. They had such links that it was often the concencus that they were alternate stories/names for the same deity (often being very accurate, with the carthaginians honouring hercules and a few linked hellenic traditions) or being accepted as primitive or regional deities (which happened the further north you go).
Indeed even in the non mediterranian societies we see plenty of crossing of faith. Many of the druidic traditions of the british ilse can be found in the scandinavian faiths which spread into the slavic traditions for instance.

Pagan is often a useful way to describe these crossing religions, in the same way that we often describe religions with an indus valley basis as "Vedic" and those referring to Yahweh as "Abrahamic", especially with their strong historical links (in the same way much of "chinese folk religion" intertwines with confucianism with the heavenly beauracracy to the point where often neo-confucianism and confucianism are interchangable).

It still is a redicusly general term and even though we can see similliarities bewteen various faiths (zeus and thor etc) there are some who dont share that many links

Such as? Even the scandinavian religions showed symbolism in their architecture and stories to egyptian paganism Osiris (often portrayed in the manner of "the green man")

[Melas]

It still is a redicusly general term and even though we can see similliarities bewteen various faiths (zeus and thor etc) there are some who dont share that many links

Such as? Even the scandinavian religions showed symbolism in their architecture and stories to egyptian paganism Osiris (often portrayed in the manner of "the green man")

Its still too general in my opinion,you cant just say 'hey I am a pagan' and its not just branches of paganism as we all know.Anyways I just dont like the term.
Similliarites bewteen greek and german paganism please

[Melas]

This is OOC you are in the wrong forum boy

I think otherwise...I didn't meant my game people...
But that is ok because i didn't specified clearly...My mistake,sorry...

So you believe in 72 magical goats IRL? EXPLAIN YOURSHLEF 'Draws sword'

[Melas]

So you believe in 72 magical goats IRL? EXPLAIN YOURSHLEF 'Draws sword'

I don't have to x-plain anything to a christian.....''on guard!!!!!!!''

Υou should not have done that - Ben (creepypasta refrence)

'Pulls out gun' You better explain cause I am a lazy fk who does not know how to use google

[The USOT]

Such as? Even the scandinavian religions showed symbolism in their architecture and stories to egyptian paganism Osiris (often portrayed in the manner of "the green man")

Its still too general in my opinion,you cant just say 'hey I am a pagan' and its not just branches of paganism as we all know.Anyways I just dont like the term.
Similliarites bewteen greek and german paganism please

Well you have already acknowledged them in terms of Thor to Zeus (albeit this is only in weaponry, in all else Zues has further links to Odin, including in some tribes an interesting sexual history + leading a war between gods).
Next we have the philosophy of techne as a means to good rather than neccesarily morality in the abrahamic context that I spoke of earlier. In the same way that Hades and Loki are both underworld gods that are frowned upon, they are not neccesarily entirely viewed as "evil" in the way that we would understand them, Loki being a dishonourable but divine trickers and Hades being viewed in similar terms, but with perhaps more respect than Loki (largely due to his greater role as caretaker of the dead, and yet still homeric tradition depicts him as a trickster who notably tricks persephone into staying with him and supplies offers to travellers with intent to supply them with misery).

In direct link to Greek paganism, the Goths notably followed Mars (or Ares) and contemporary roman writers recognised their equivelant of Woden (or Odin) as an incarnation of Mercury.

[Melas]

So... does this prove of a Global religion existing before an Ice Age or ancient civilizations (mainly greeks and scandinavians) sailing across the globe spreading their religion?

[Melas]

Υou should not have done that - Ben (creepypasta refrence)

'Pulls out gun' You better explain cause I am a lazy fk who does not know how to use google

Really...?
If you knew then maybe you wouldn't be a christian...

'Shoots in the face' WHERE IS YOUR GOAT NOW?