A Question for Anyone Who Believes in an All-Powerful God

[Upper and Lower Karsteinia]

I see a lot of people debating whether or not it is God's job to make the world a better place; if it is God's fault the world contains quite a lot of bad things and so on.

I guess a follow-up question that would seem interesting is if you got omnipotence, true omnipotence, would you improve the world?

I know I would. I wouldn't take away all bad things like bruises and split ends, but I would allow old people to keep function of their bowels and not have small, parasitic fish swim up your urethra.
Actually, I would probably do quite a bit more than that, but it's a start.
Oh, and remove hell. Possibly remove afterlives altogether and just create immortality in this life and make more worlds to expand on.


As for the original question (sorry I got side-tracked), yes, those questions are legitimate (although I still voted in the poll they had been asked before). God is very cold-hearted if he can watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, even though it would take him absolutely no effort whatsoever to fix. And if there is a hell, then he is a monster for not shutting it down.

[Upper and Lower Karsteinia]

God wants us to have freewill, so that is why he let Adam and Eve sin. He did warn them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but they disobeyed. God knew this was going to happen and He is not a tyrant. God did not persuade them to do evil, Satan did.

But... but they didn't know about good and evil. They couldn't have known disobeying God was a bad thing before they ate from the eponymous tree of knowledge and good and evil. They did not so much do evil, as they did something they had no concept of whatsoever, and no idea it would be wrong until after the sin of learning it is wrong. How can God punish them for disobeying him when he made them without morals?

[Denecaep]

God wants us to have freewill, so that is why he let Adam and Eve sin. He did warn them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but they disobeyed. God knew this was going to happen and He is not a tyrant. God did not persuade them to do evil, Satan did.

But... but they didn't know about good and evil. They couldn't have known disobeying God was a bad thing before they ate from the eponymous tree of knowledge and good and evil. They did not so much do evil, as they did something they had no concept of whatsoever, and no idea it would be wrong until after the sin of learning it is wrong. How can God punish them for disobeying him when he made them without morals?

And, once again, why didn't God just make humans that would make the right choice?

[Jewcrew]

Does a being that is capable of that level of awareness sound anything like a human to you?

Frankly, such a thing, to me, would be bordering on godhood itself.

We were created from mud, FFS.

But he didn't have to create us from mud. Also, as stated, science disagrees with that.

Further, you're right, that does sound bordering on godhood. But it still isn't, because they aren't all powerful. So why didn't God do that? Is he too conceited?

This is what I get for trying to joke with an atheist. They always assume, even when you've made it clear that you recognize evolution, that you're a creationist.

I'll remember not post jokes anymore.

And He didn't have to create a universe at all, so what's your point?

[Jewcrew]

But... but they didn't know about good and evil. They couldn't have known disobeying God was a bad thing before they ate from the eponymous tree of knowledge and good and evil. They did not so much do evil, as they did something they had no concept of whatsoever, and no idea it would be wrong until after the sin of learning it is wrong. How can God punish them for disobeying him when he made them without morals?

And, once again, why didn't God just make humans that would make the right choice?

This has been covered.

Repeatedly.

Because that would not be making free-willed beings, that would be making slaves.

You're now going in circles. If you don't get it at this point, you never will, and that's a failing on your part.

[Distruzio]

God wants us to have freewill, so that is why he let Adam and Eve sin. He did warn them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but they disobeyed. God knew this was going to happen and He is not a tyrant. God did not persuade them to do evil, Satan did.

But... but they didn't know about good and evil. They couldn't have known disobeying God was a bad thing before they ate from the eponymous tree of knowledge and good and evil. They did not so much do evil, as they did something they had no concept of whatsoever, and no idea it would be wrong until after the sin of learning it is wrong. How can God punish them for disobeying him when he made them without morals?

He didn't "punish" anyone. He explained the consequences of their choice.

[Distruzio]

But... but they didn't know about good and evil. They couldn't have known disobeying God was a bad thing before they ate from the eponymous tree of knowledge and good and evil. They did not so much do evil, as they did something they had no concept of whatsoever, and no idea it would be wrong until after the sin of learning it is wrong. How can God punish them for disobeying him when he made them without morals?

And, once again, why didn't God just make humans that would make the right choice?

He did make humans that would make the correct choices. Which is precisely why not everyone is an asshat.

[North California]

Question 1: Because if there happens to be a God (because I'm rather unsure, too), well, quite frankly, he/she/it doesn't care too much about us.

Think about. Look how big the universe is. There are probably countless forms of alien life out there. Why are we so special? In my opinion, God probably doesn't care as much about us as we think he/she/it does.


Question 2:

You can blame whoever you want. There's no right answer.

[Jewcrew]

God wants us to have freewill, so that is why he let Adam and Eve sin. He did warn them not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but they disobeyed. God knew this was going to happen and He is not a tyrant. God did not persuade them to do evil, Satan did.

But... but they didn't know about good and evil. They couldn't have known disobeying God was a bad thing before they ate from the eponymous tree of knowledge and good and evil. They did not so much do evil, as they did something they had no concept of whatsoever, and no idea it would be wrong until after the sin of learning it is wrong. How can God punish them for disobeying him when he made them without morals?

I recommend reading a copy of the Torah with commentary, this is covered rather well in there.

No, I will not do your work for you.

[Denecaep]

Question 1: Because if there happens to be a God (because I'm rather unsure, too), well, quite frankly, he/she/it doesn't care too much about us.

Think about. Look how big the universe is. There are probably countless forms of alien life out there. Why are we so special? In my opinion, God probably doesn't care as much about us as we think he/she/it does.


Question 2:

You can blame whoever you want. There's no right answer.

I absolutely love this answer.

[Dracone]

Ooh! I've got to remember that one!

That sounds all very nice, but there's still a problem. God can do anything. Thus, God could create a humanity aware that such horrible atrocities could be occurring, even if they never happen.

Moreover, we certainly don't live in a world where the only problem is getting a hangnail, which God could certainly do. So, why doesn't he do that? And why doesn't he simply create a humanity aware and imaginative of such horrible occurrences that don't happen?

I actually thought I had explained myself better then I had on one point that you seem to be overlooking. There can be no good without evil. Think of this as well, even were he to do that (which by its very nature would be stripping us of our free will, so its debateable from the start that that world might or might not be better) then what happens when we die? How can we tell that heaven is better? and if we cant tell that heaven is better then earth (which it still would be by virtue of being with the Lord, but we wouldnt be able to imagine that until we actually got there) then there is no reward for us to strive for. And thus we have a situation where it is no longer the carrot (heaven) and the stick (hell) but just the stick.

[Denecaep]

And, once again, why didn't God just make humans that would make the right choice?

He did make humans that would make the correct choices. Which is precisely why not everyone is an asshat.

Okay, but why didn't he make humanity in a way in which all humans would make the right choices and we would all be in a blissful world of cooperation and selflessness without exception?

[Denecaep]

That sounds all very nice, but there's still a problem. God can do anything. Thus, God could create a humanity aware that such horrible atrocities could be occurring, even if they never happen.

Moreover, we certainly don't live in a world where the only problem is getting a hangnail, which God could certainly do. So, why doesn't he do that? And why doesn't he simply create a humanity aware and imaginative of such horrible occurrences that don't happen?

I actually thought I had explained myself better then I had on one point that you seem to be overlooking. There can be no good without evil. Think of this as well, even were he to do that (which by its very nature would be stripping us of our free will, so its debateable from the start that that world might or might not be better) then what happens when we die? How can we tell that heaven is better? and if we cant tell that heaven is better then earth (which it still would be by virtue of being with the Lord, but we wouldnt be able to imagine that until we actually got there) then there is no reward for us to strive for. And thus we have a situation where it is no longer the carrot (heaven) and the stick (hell) but just the stick.

But you're disregarding what I said. you say "there can be no good without evil."

But God is God, so according to a belief in an omnipresent omnibenevolent all powerful all knowing God, God COULD create good without evil. So why not?

[Dracone]

I see a lot of people debating whether or not it is God's job to make the world a better place; if it is God's fault the world contains quite a lot of bad things and so on.

I guess a follow-up question that would seem interesting is if you got omnipotence, true omnipotence, would you improve the world?

I know I would. I wouldn't take away all bad things like bruises and split ends, but I would allow old people to keep function of their bowels and not have small, parasitic fish swim up your urethra.
Actually, I would probably do quite a bit more than that, but it's a start.
Oh, and remove hell. Possibly remove afterlives altogether and just create immortality in this life and make more worlds to expand on.


As for the original question (sorry I got side-tracked), yes, those questions are legitimate (although I still voted in the poll they had been asked before). God is very cold-hearted if he can watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, even though it would take him absolutely no effort whatsoever to fix. And if there is a hell, then he is a monster for not shutting it down.

He oesnt watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, but he also doesnt swoop down and fix everything either. He gave us free will so that we could be His children,not His slaves, and I know your going to say "well its a Father's duty to feed his children!" to which I say that 1) He does feed us, just not food, but something far more important. Hope. But more importantly 2) No matter what the reason for his intervention, if he just starts intervening without us asking him too, then we are His slaves. He is that much more powerful then us.

as to Him being a monster for not shutting down Hell, He kind of did shut it down by sending His son Jesus to come die on the cross and save us. All he asks to in return for you going to Heaven with Him is that you accept Jesus as your savior and believe. another case of Him providing help by helping ypou help yourself.

[Distruzio]

He did make humans that would make the correct choices. Which is precisely why not everyone is an asshat.

Okay, but why didn't he make humanity in a way in which all humans would make the right choices and we would all be in a blissful world of cooperation and selflessness without exception?

B/c cooperation, by its very nature, necessitates a choice. If the only choices available are the right choices, cooperation is impossible.

[Denecaep]

I see a lot of people debating whether or not it is God's job to make the world a better place; if it is God's fault the world contains quite a lot of bad things and so on.

I guess a follow-up question that would seem interesting is if you got omnipotence, true omnipotence, would you improve the world?

I know I would. I wouldn't take away all bad things like bruises and split ends, but I would allow old people to keep function of their bowels and not have small, parasitic fish swim up your urethra.
Actually, I would probably do quite a bit more than that, but it's a start.
Oh, and remove hell. Possibly remove afterlives altogether and just create immortality in this life and make more worlds to expand on.


As for the original question (sorry I got side-tracked), yes, those questions are legitimate (although I still voted in the poll they had been asked before). God is very cold-hearted if he can watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, even though it would take him absolutely no effort whatsoever to fix. And if there is a hell, then he is a monster for not shutting it down.

He oesnt watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, but he also doesnt swoop down and fix everything either. He gave us free will so that we could be His children,not His slaves, and I know your going to say "well its a Father's duty to feed his children!" to which I say that 1) He does feed us, just not food, but something far more important. Hope. But more importantly 2) No matter what the reason for his intervention, if he just starts intervening without us asking him too, then we are His slaves. He is that much more powerful then us.

as to Him being a monster for not shutting down Hell, He kind of did shut it down by sending His son Jesus to come die on the cross and save us. All he asks to in return for you going to Heaven with Him is that you accept Jesus as your savior and believe. another case of Him providing help by helping ypou help yourself.

We are already his slaves, because he created everything to be exactly the way it is. Nothing was "unintentional," because God is all knowing. Free will in Christianity is a logical paradox.

And the whole "feeding hope" thing. I'm quite sure that dying African children would rather have food than hope. I'm quite sure that the people in the Holocaust would have rather had freedom than hope. I'm also sure that cancer patients would rather have health than hope.

[Denecaep]

Okay, but why didn't he make humanity in a way in which all humans would make the right choices and we would all be in a blissful world of cooperation and selflessness without exception?

B/c cooperation, by its very nature, necessitates a choice. If the only choices available are the right choices, cooperation is impossible.

Why can't God make there be many choices, but create a humanity that always knows the right choice to take?

[Dracone]

I actually thought I had explained myself better then I had on one point that you seem to be overlooking. There can be no good without evil. Think of this as well, even were he to do that (which by its very nature would be stripping us of our free will, so its debateable from the start that that world might or might not be better) then what happens when we die? How can we tell that heaven is better? and if we cant tell that heaven is better then earth (which it still would be by virtue of being with the Lord, but we wouldnt be able to imagine that until we actually got there) then there is no reward for us to strive for. And thus we have a situation where it is no longer the carrot (heaven) and the stick (hell) but just the stick.

But you're disregarding what I said. you say "there can be no good without evil."

But God is God, so according to a belief in an omnipresent omnibenevolent all powerful all knowing God, God COULD create good without evil. So why not?

Yes He could have. But he didnt intend for there to be either good or evil either one, rember th part of Adam and Eve stealing the fruit of knowledge? He told them not to. They did anyways. It was that that gave us good and evil, and all the suffering since. And it was only after that, after we were already created, that it became nesseceary to make us to be good. Now 'm not saying that he couldnt have prevented it all, because he could have stopped us from eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil quite easily. But I also never said he was omnibenevolent. He is the prime example of all that is good in the universe, but he is also very, very, very different then any human being. We cant know why he decided to let us steal the knowledge of good and evil, although I am guessing that it was probably a case of "Fine. If you dont want to play by the rules I gave you, you dont have to. But then you and all your descendants must deal with the consequences."

[Distruzio]

B/c cooperation, by its very nature, necessitates a choice. If the only choices available are the right choices, cooperation is impossible.

Why can't God make there be many choices, but create a humanity that always knows the right choice to take?

Why do you need God to tell you which choices are right?

[Dracone]

He oesnt watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, but he also doesnt swoop down and fix everything either. He gave us free will so that we could be His children,not His slaves, and I know your going to say "well its a Father's duty to feed his children!" to which I say that 1) He does feed us, just not food, but something far more important. Hope. But more importantly 2) No matter what the reason for his intervention, if he just starts intervening without us asking him too, then we are His slaves. He is that much more powerful then us.

as to Him being a monster for not shutting down Hell, He kind of did shut it down by sending His son Jesus to come die on the cross and save us. All he asks to in return for you going to Heaven with Him is that you accept Jesus as your savior and believe. another case of Him providing help by helping ypou help yourself.

We are already his slaves, because he created everything to be exactly the way it is. Nothing was "unintentional," because God is all knowing. Free will in Christianity is a logical paradox.

And the whole "feeding hope" thing. I'm quite sure that dying African children would rather have food than hope. I'm quite sure that the people in the Holocaust would have rather had freedom than hope. I'm also sure that cancer patients would rather have health than hope.

You assume that all knowing means pays attention to every little detail and specifically places everything. He could do that. He could pre decide every decision your going to make. but that doesnt mean He does. Just because He knows that if he does this then it will have all these side affects down the road doesnt mean he was delibrately trying to get every one of those side affects.

and if you truly beleive that, you underestimate how important hope is. But like I said, he doesnt come down and do every little thing for us either, that would be taking away our free will. Instead, he only helps when he is asked to, and not even then sometimes because somethings have to happen or else something worse will happen down the road. Which he could stop true, but that is, once again, removing us from our free will.

[Dracone]

B/c cooperation, by its very nature, necessitates a choice. If the only choices available are the right choices, cooperation is impossible.

Why can't God make there be many choices, but create a humanity that always knows the right choice to take?

That would be, by its very nature removing our free will.

[Transhuman Proteus]

I see a lot of people debating whether or not it is God's job to make the world a better place; if it is God's fault the world contains quite a lot of bad things and so on.

I guess a follow-up question that would seem interesting is if you got omnipotence, true omnipotence, would you improve the world?

I know I would. I wouldn't take away all bad things like bruises and split ends, but I would allow old people to keep function of their bowels and not have small, parasitic fish swim up your urethra.
Actually, I would probably do quite a bit more than that, but it's a start.
Oh, and remove hell. Possibly remove afterlives altogether and just create immortality in this life and make more worlds to expand on.


As for the original question (sorry I got side-tracked), yes, those questions are legitimate (although I still voted in the poll they had been asked before). God is very cold-hearted if he can watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, even though it would take him absolutely no effort whatsoever to fix. And if there is a hell, then he is a monster for not shutting it down.

He oesnt watch children dying of starvation and not do anything, but he also doesnt swoop down and fix everything either. He gave us free will so that we could be His children,not His slaves, and I know your going to say "well its a Father's duty to feed his children!" to which I say that 1) He does feed us, just not food, but something far more important. Hope. But more importantly 2) No matter what the reason for his intervention, if he just starts intervening without us asking him too, then we are His slaves. He is that much more powerful then us.

Yes, I suspect the starving masses in Africa are much more happy having their bellies filled with hope than actual food.

But anyway - it has intervened frequently without us asking it to. Frequently to the detriment of people who didn't support it. In fact it only really stopped apparently when we started getting to the point when we'd be able to verify this intervention.

Unless all the old Testament stuff and Jesus and all that wasn't an intervention of God in the human sphere. Though I guess that only covers a tiny bit of the human world - no record of intervention in Australia or Asia or anything like that. Just a big preoccupation with the area making up the Middle East.

[Nyr Hrafn-Heim]

Hey, so I'm totally unsure of my religion as of now. I would consider myself agnostic, except that I am still in search for some kind of truth that makes sense to me. That's just a bit about me, but isn't that relevant to my question.

My question, or really, two questions, is to anyone who believes in an all-powerful God that can do anything.

The first question is, why isn't the world a whole lot better?

To elaborate: If God can do anything, why won't God (or gods, etc.) create a world where people suffer less, still have free will, and everyone makes the decision to give God the glory he deserves or needs or whatever. Now, I know some of you will at this point say that that wouldn't be free will. But in that case, we don't ever really have free will. If God created EVERYTHING, and God knew exactly what would happen because he/she/they/it is all knowing, then that means that everything that God created is exactly the way he intended to create it. So, even if we have free will, she knew what decisions we would make based on how God created the world. God could've made the world slightly different so that the one person that makes decision A would instead make decision B. So, why didn't God just make things a whole lot better?

The second question, going off of this, is why can't I just blame God for everything?

To elaborate: If everything is the way it is because God intended it to be that way, then it is God's fault that I won't accept Jesus Christ as my savior, or it is God's fault that I won't have faith in the Norse Gods, etc. God could've made the world in a way that I would do those things. So, if you believe in hell, how is it then fair that I get thrown in hell for the way God programmed me?

Thank you for answering or looking at this thread!

Answer one:
I am a Catholic and we believe God gave us free will. We also believe God will not interfere with the world we shape unless we uric him to the point of needing a purge like he did in the bible to that city... I cant quite remember its name. He did the same to the entirety of Egypt for their actions. His view on things is: He gave us the tools to be successful and we used them to create weapons and the like. We are a greedy species now, its practically in our blood at this point. We dug our graves, time to lay in them.
I know it sounds dark, but its true.

Answer two:
You cant blame God for everything because once again, WE HAVE FREE WILL TO DO WHAT WE DO. If you get drunk, beat your wife, go to jail for domestic abuse, and then get a divorce is it God's fault? No, its your drunk ass' fault. Even things such as earthquakes and stuff can now be linked to our drilling of the planet, so you can really blame God for those either. Global warming: us overusing cars and things of the like.
War: Us being greedy, as par usual.
Famine: See above.
Poverty: Once again, see above.
You cant really blame God for our choice to fuck our planet so hard in the ass that cum starts pouring from its mouth.

And those are my answers to you. One last thing, your poll options are mainly based on the fact that people who agree with your questions would post here. YOu should probably add one like: "We as humans have fucked up and cannot blame a higher power"

[Dracone]

Your right in one regard,He did do alot of intervention in the early days, but I suppose I should clarify. I meant He doesnt intervene in the day to day lives unless you ask. And even then He might not because doing so would prevent something else in his plan. On the large scale its different. In the early days (Old testamnt) it was because we as a race, needed it more. We needed those lasting miracles He did so that we would remember. He gave us something big in the beggining, and lots of it and very obvious, so that we would believe at this late day and age when many people think they know everything and can control it. and the intervention He did with Jesus was so that people would believe Jesus's message, instead of just passing him off as a nobody. And this way we have a chance at heaven.
But those big things dont a slave make. They affect global things, not individuals, or atleast rarely and not in the long view.
and He stopped doing the big stuff long befoe we could verify it actually. we've only been in the mindset to verify it for the last 200 years or so. And the last big stuff was oh... 2000 years ago...

as for the starving aids in africa, I didnt say they would rather have hope then food. I said hope was better. If your completely without hope you die. Because if you are truly, 100% without hope that liv is worth living, then your going to commit suicide. I didnt say it was what the people wanted. I saiod it was what they needed more.

EDIT: that was at trans, I meant for it to be right under yours so I wouldnt have to mess with the quote and it didnt work out lol...

[Tlaceceyaya]

as for the starving aids in africa, I didnt say they would rather have hope then food. I said hope was better. If your completely without hope you die. Because if you are truly, 100% without hope that liv is worth living, then your going to commit suicide. I didnt say it was what the people wanted. I saiod it was what they needed more.

People can be hopeful without (noticeably not accompanied by any evidence) a god giving it to them. People can't eat without food, though. And if they've suddenly got food from the sky, they're probably gonna be pretty hopeful. God's too lazy to do two birds with one stone?