If the south had won the civil war.

[Revolutopia]

Britain and France were at their peak at the time, Spain would have hit a weakened america if it thought it had a chance

I think they would have made an allince with the new confederate states, so they could use them as allies to reclaim land theyd lost to the United states in wars past

Britain, France, and Spain needed the USA more then they would needed the CSA. So more likely they would stayed neutral.

[New Sparta 1309]

I think they would have made an allince with the new confederate states, so they could use them as allies to reclaim land theyd lost to the United states in wars past

Britain, France, and Spain needed the USA more then they would needed the CSA. So more likely they would stayed neutral.

Brittin and france where ready to ally with the CSA if theyd won the battle of gettysburg.

[Noobubersland]

Britain and France were at their peak at the time, Spain would have hit a weakened america if it thought it had a chance

I think they would have made an allince with the new confederate states, so they could use them as allies to reclaim land theyd lost to the United states in wars past

No, France would have gotten the south, Britain the north, and Spain the west, they hated both the south for slavery (their citizens did anyway) and they all wanted more land

[Wikkiwallana]

Britain, France, and Spain needed the USA more then they would needed the CSA. So more likely they would stayed neutral.

Brittin and france where ready to ally with the CSA if theyd won the battle of gettysburg.

Source?

[The UK in Exile]

Britain, France, and Spain needed the USA more then they would needed the CSA. So more likely they would stayed neutral.

Brittin and france where ready to ally with the CSA if theyd won the battle of gettysburg.

they really weren't. at best they might have forced the blockade to sell the confederacy guns.

[Revolutopia]

Britain, France, and Spain needed the USA more then they would needed the CSA. So more likely they would stayed neutral.

Brittin and france where ready to ally with the CSA if theyd won the battle of gettysburg.

Not in the sense of going against the USA, more likely they would have just recognized them as independent and might place some pressure on the USA. However, the USA's grain market was more important to them then the CSA in regards of attempting an invasion.

[New Sparta 1309]

I think they would have made an allince with the new confederate states, so they could use them as allies to reclaim land theyd lost to the United states in wars past

No, France would have gotten the south, Britain the north, and Spain the west, they hated both the south for slavery (their citizens did anyway) and they all wanted more land

mexico was hurting bad finacily so they couldnt have pulled off a war with the csa in fact theyd probaly end up selling them cuba and a fair chunk of mexico further down the line. As for Britain, they where on the verge of an allince with them as well as france. they could take the land they wanted from the weakend us

[Distruzio]

Who would have been in the financial and military shape to invade and conquer the US?

Britain and France were at their peak at the time, Spain would have hit a weakened america if it thought it had a chance

Spain? Srsly?

The UK couldn't beat the US two generations previously and France was reeling from continental war for domination of Europe.

[The New World America]

I probably wouldn't be able to "Swamp People" on History channel. Oh, the agony. Not being sarcastic, I like that show.

[The Taryegeans]

Doutful. France was busy getting its ass kicked by Mexico at the time, and if Britian had tried an invasion the same result as the previous two wars would have occured. The extraordinary amount of troops that would be required to defeat the US would have resulted in extreme amounts of money and lives spent, a possible revolt in the still highly volatile China, etc.

The war over the pie or the one with the hapsburg? What are you talking about china anyway? Britain never annexed china

American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. And China fought against Britian twice during the First and Second Opium Wars. The Second ended in 1860, and China was still furious, and would have jumped on a chance to attack a divided Empire.

[The UK in Exile]

No, France would have gotten the south, Britain the north, and Spain the west, they hated both the south for slavery (their citizens did anyway) and they all wanted more land

mexico was hurting bad finacily so they couldnt have pulled off a war with the csa in fact theyd probaly end up selling them cuba and a fair chunk of mexico further down the line. As for Britain, they where on the verge of an allince with them as well as france. they could take the land they wanted from the weakend us

britain really wasn't.

[Distruzio]

Britain, France, and Spain needed the USA more then they would needed the CSA. So more likely they would stayed neutral.

Brittin and france where ready to ally with the CSA if theyd won the battle of gettysburg.

No. They weren't. It was an american affair and both nations resented the Confederacy for daring to presume their loyalty even though they each yearned for the opportunity to witness the US brought down a peg.

[Hittanryan]

Pretty much. The European nations would jump upon the weakened America.

Who would have been in the financial and military shape to invade and conquer the US?

The British Empire of the 19th century.

Consider the following:
UK was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution
Royal Navy made the British Empire a military superpower
British successes elsewhere bolstering resources
High likelihood of domestic upheaval in the US following dissolution of the Union

[Wikkiwallana]

No, France would have gotten the south, Britain the north, and Spain the west, they hated both the south for slavery (their citizens did anyway) and they all wanted more land

mexico was hurting bad finacily so they couldnt have pulled off a war with the csa in fact theyd probaly end up selling them cuba and a fair chunk of mexico further down the line. As for Britain, they where on the verge of an allince with them as well as france. they could take the land they wanted from the weakend us

Again, I want sources of these claims.

[Revolutopia]

No, France would have gotten the south, Britain the north, and Spain the west, they hated both the south for slavery (their citizens did anyway) and they all wanted more land

mexico was hurting bad finacily so they couldnt have pulled off a war with the csa in fact theyd probaly end up selling them cuba and a fair chunk of mexico further down the line. As for Britain, they where on the verge of an allince with them as well as france. they could take the land they wanted from the weakend us

Mexico was independent at that time. Britain and France would not have risked USA grain shipments being stop, nor would they overly helped a bunch slavers.

[Hittanryan]

Brittin and france where ready to ally with the CSA if theyd won the battle of gettysburg.

No. They weren't. It was an american affair and both nations resented the Confederacy for daring to presume their loyalty even though they each yearned for the opportunity to witness the US brought down a peg.

Post-Emancipation Proclamation, it also would have been politically inconvenient for the UK to side with the Confederacy having just abolished slavery itself.

[The Taryegeans]

Who would have been in the financial and military shape to invade and conquer the US?

The British Empire of the 19th century.

Consider the following:
UK was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution
Royal Navy made the British Empire a military superpower
British successes elsewhere bolstering resources
High likelihood of domestic upheaval in the US following dissolution of the Union

And they would have fallen victim to the same issues of the past. A patriotic and unwilling population that would rather die than become British again, an Empire they needed huge amounts of troops and ships to protect, and even weakened, the American government would still have been a formidable foe that would more than likely prove unable to be beaten by the amount of troops and ships that could be spared for such an invasion.

[Noobubersland]

Britain and France were at their peak at the time, Spain would have hit a weakened america if it thought it had a chance

Spain? Srsly?

The UK couldn't beat the US two generations previously and France was reeling from continental war for domination of Europe.

It not that they couldn't beat them, they were fighting more important battles in Europe for the war of 1812, and it would have cost them more then the colonies provided, and france had deffinatly recovered by the 1860s

[The Taryegeans]

It not that they couldn't beat them, they were fighting more important battles in Europe for the war of 1812, and it would have cost them more then the colonies provided, and france had deffinatly recovered by the 1860s

France was getting its ass handed to it on a silver platter by Mexico at the time, and they were a much weaker nation the the Union. And I have already established the flaws of the Third British War theory.

[Dyakovo]

Britain and France were at their peak at the time, Spain would have hit a weakened america if it thought it had a chance

Spain?¹ Srsly?

The UK couldn't beat the US two generations previously² and France was reeling from continental war for domination of Europe³.

1: Seriously. While no longer a true world power they did have the military might to potentially defeat a war ravaged America in the late 1860s.
2: Wrong, the UK could have. The only reason they didn't is they were more concerned with fighting the war they were already involved in.
3: Their military involvement in Mexico would have been much more of a hindrance than the after effects of the Crimean War almost a full decade previous.

[Noobubersland]

The war over the pie or the one with the hapsburg? What are you talking about china anyway? Britain never annexed china

American Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. And China fought against Britian twice during the First and Second Opium Wars. The Second ended in 1860, and China was still furious, and would have jumped on a chance to attack a divided Empire.

You're forgetting that Britain was one of 6 great powers to attack china in the second opium war, Italy, russia, japan, Germany, and France also participated

[Noobubersland]

It not that they couldn't beat them, they were fighting more important battles in Europe for the war of 1812, and it would have cost them more then the colonies provided, and france had deffinatly recovered by the 1860s

France was getting its ass handed to it on a silver platter by Mexico at the time, and they were a much weaker nation the the Union. And I have already established the flaws of the Third British War theory.

I do not remember France losing a war against Mexico, was it the one with the Austrian emperor of mexico?

[Mandicoria]

This post is intended to be a serious historical discussion of the events that could have transpired had the Confederate States proved victorious in the civil war. Lets please keep this civil and on topic. If you intend to post something along the lines of "there would have been slavery forever" or "they’d be just like the Nazis" then I believe this post is not for you as that shows you really don’t understand the causes behind the civil war. Let’s start of how things go immediately following the end of the war, me personally I think that Robert E.Lee would have become the president following Jefferson Davis and that he would have begun the process of manumitting the slaves.

P.S. Mod's please dont lock this thread.

Might we dare ask what were the causes of the Civil War?

It was mainly the divisions between the North and South, and lets not forget that the Confederates were the ones who attacked a Union fort.(Fort Sumter)

I think that if the South won the war, the US would still be around but the CSA might still be around. The CSA most likely would collapse because number 1 it was a Confederation, number 2 it would not have been able to really feed its population since the they mainly used their farms to produce cash crops and not food crops, number 3 the Confederacy could have gone through its own civil war about their own states' rights.

[The Taryegeans]

You're forgetting that Britain was one of 6 great powers to attack china in the second opium war, Italy, russia, japan, Germany, and France also participated

I did indeed, my bad.


The fact still remains though that the Empire was already dealing with several revolts. For example, one in Jamacia which they put down. They had also just fought the Second Anglo-Ashani War to a draw, the outbreak of the Third one would have most likely been accelerated by the lessening of troops in the region.

[Hittanryan]

The British Empire of the 19th century.

Consider the following:
UK was the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution
Royal Navy made the British Empire a military superpower
British successes elsewhere bolstering resources
High likelihood of domestic upheaval in the US following dissolution of the Union

And they would have fallen victim to the same issues of the past. A patriotic and unwilling population that would rather die than become British again, an Empire they needed huge amounts of troops and ships to protect, and even weakened, the American government would still have been a formidable foe that would more than likely prove unable to be beaten by the amount of troops and ships that could be spared for such an invasion.

Patriotism is difficult when there's no nation to speak of. You're also greatly overestimating the US' sense of national identity at the time of the Civil War. One of Lincoln's greatest challenges was convincing Union voters that the war had to be won. Union campaigns were affected by how the war was being perceived back home. Americans had to be pushed very hard just to preserve their own nation from an insurrection with little long-term staying power (CSA had a smaller population, little industry, etc.).

A protracted war with the single most powerful military force on the planet at the time? Well, there would be no happy ending, that's for sure. If the US somehow survived, it may not have industrialized at all. It certainly wouldn't have become the economic Great Power it was by the time of the 20th century.