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by The Corparation » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:14 pm
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by Our New World Oceania » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:14 pm
by Vousielle » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:14 pm
AETEN II wrote:Vousielle wrote:Wirbel, here is the thing. I am not disputing your right to disagree with the President, but you need to have a realistic view of the political situation. There is a widening ideological gap between Pres. Obama and the GOP, but it isn't because Obama is a crazy leftist. Rather the GOP has been drifting right in recent years, that is what accounts for the disparity. Obama is center-right... it''s just that centrism and the Republican Party has less and less in common lately. The term RINO is used to denote Conservative moderates who haven't changed with the times.
For fuck's sake, anyone who thinks Obama is a leftist is an idiot. Well for one, our left ain't even the left. It's just more right, closer to centrism. Obama's a moderate liberal at best. He's centrist on our political compass, but on the actual political compass, all powerful American politicians are to the right, not the left.
by Yorick » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:15 pm
Guatamala wrote:I don't think he will But if he does then we are in for one bad surprise. It would be a blessing if he doesn't win.
by Mosasauria » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:15 pm
Guatamala wrote:I don't think he will But if he does then we are in for one bad surprise. It would be a blessing if he doesn't win.
by Renaissance Prussia » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:15 pm
Guatamala wrote:I don't think he will But if he does then we are in for one bad surprise. It would be a blessing if he doesn't win.
by The Republic of Lanos » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:15 pm
Aquophia wrote:No. He even mentioned in a leaked microphone conversation that winning the election will make him "more flexable", meaning that he wont have to worry about any political opposition and can lean as far to the left as he wants to. You will see obama stop appeasing the right and return back to the "first two years" phase when he was handing out stimulus checks, passing healthcare bills without reading them, and baling out car businesses that should have failed.
by Vousielle » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:16 pm
Yorick wrote:Vousielle wrote:Wirbel, here is the thing. I am not disputing your right to disagree with the President, but you need to have a realistic view of the political situation. There is a widening ideological gap between Pres. Obama and the GOP, but it isn't because Obama is a crazy leftist. Rather the GOP has been drifting right in recent years, that is what accounts for the disparity. Obama is center-right... it''s just that centrism and the Republican Party has less and less in common lately. The term RINO is used to denote Conservative moderates who haven't changed with the times.
The Republicans were much more right-wing in the past than they are now, not less. Look at Bob Dole's platform in 1996 for example: he was talking about 15% tax cuts across the board and abolishing whole government departments. And he was the moderate in that race, Pat Buchanan was considered the conservative alternative!
by Ngelmish » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:16 pm
by AETEN II » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:16 pm
Mosasauria wrote:AETEN II wrote:For fuck's sake, anyone who thinks Obama is a leftist is an idiot. Well for one, our left ain't even the left. It's just more right, closer to centrism. Obama's a moderate liberal at best. He's centrist on our political compass, but on the actual political compass, all powerful American politicians are to the right, not the left.
This. Which makes American conservatives really scary.
"Quod Vult, Valde Valt"
Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P.
Nationstatelandsville wrote:"Why'd the chicken cross the street?"
"Because your dad's a whore."
"...He died a week ago."
"Of syphilis, I bet."
by Mosasauria » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:16 pm
Yorick wrote:Vousielle wrote:Wirbel, here is the thing. I am not disputing your right to disagree with the President, but you need to have a realistic view of the political situation. There is a widening ideological gap between Pres. Obama and the GOP, but it isn't because Obama is a crazy leftist. Rather the GOP has been drifting right in recent years, that is what accounts for the disparity. Obama is center-right... it''s just that centrism and the Republican Party has less and less in common lately. The term RINO is used to denote Conservative moderates who haven't changed with the times.
The Republicans were much more right-wing in the past than they are now, not less. Look at Bob Dole's platform in 1996 for example: he was talking about 15% tax cuts across the board and abolishing whole government departments. And he was the moderate in that race, Pat Buchanan was considered the conservative alternative!
by Renascibilitas » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:16 pm
Vousielle wrote:Yorick wrote:
The Republicans were much more right-wing in the past than they are now, not less. Look at Bob Dole's platform in 1996 for example: he was talking about 15% tax cuts across the board and abolishing whole government departments. And he was the moderate in that race, Pat Buchanan was considered the conservative alternative!
I was thinking in a timescale of the 1950's to now.
by Mosasauria » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:17 pm
Ngelmish wrote:Obviously "improvement" is a loaded term since there are lots of different ways of measuring it. Will Obama be more likely to govern closer to the center than he is currently? I think so. Will ideological hacks and misinformed people scream about his all-encroaching leftism? Yes. Would I view that as an improvement? Moderately.
by AETEN II » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:17 pm
"Quod Vult, Valde Valt"
Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P.
Nationstatelandsville wrote:"Why'd the chicken cross the street?"
"Because your dad's a whore."
"...He died a week ago."
"Of syphilis, I bet."
by Ertae » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:17 pm
Yorick wrote:Vousielle wrote:Wirbel, here is the thing. I am not disputing your right to disagree with the President, but you need to have a realistic view of the political situation. There is a widening ideological gap between Pres. Obama and the GOP, but it isn't because Obama is a crazy leftist. Rather the GOP has been drifting right in recent years, that is what accounts for the disparity. Obama is center-right... it''s just that centrism and the Republican Party has less and less in common lately. The term RINO is used to denote Conservative moderates who haven't changed with the times.
The Republicans were much more right-wing in the past than they are now, not less. Look at Bob Dole's platform in 1996 for example: he was talking about 15% tax cuts across the board and abolishing whole government departments. And he was the moderate in that race, Pat Buchanan was considered the conservative alternative!
by Yorick » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:18 pm
by Mosasauria » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:18 pm
by Socialist Ecuador » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:19 pm
by Mosasauria » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:19 pm
by Pohlmania » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm
by Mosasauria » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm
Yorick wrote:Renascibilitas wrote:
If only the GOP had a guy like Eisenhower running.
You mean the person who quietly supported Segregation and launched a massive racial profiling campaign to kick out all illegal immigrants? I don't think people here have much of a sense of scale. Granted again, my views are far to the right of 90% of NS but still.
by AETEN II » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm
Mosasauria wrote:AETEN II wrote:It's also sad that so few understand that. I also makes me laugh whenever someone calls an American politician that hasn't stated he's communist to be communist. Cause it's impossible.
Well, you know, anyone who doesn't support the glorious cause of being a Christian Moral Crusader who's out to defend White People and the Rich from injustice at the hands of the Libruhl Eleet is obv. a Commie.
"Quod Vult, Valde Valt"
Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P.
Nationstatelandsville wrote:"Why'd the chicken cross the street?"
"Because your dad's a whore."
"...He died a week ago."
"Of syphilis, I bet."
by Sucrati » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm
Aethrys wrote:Hopefully he'll improve by growing a spine and not caving in to absolutely everything the Republicans angrily demand in the spirit of "Bipartisanship".
George Washington wrote:"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
by Seperates » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:21 pm
Yorick wrote:Vousielle wrote:Wirbel, here is the thing. I am not disputing your right to disagree with the President, but you need to have a realistic view of the political situation. There is a widening ideological gap between Pres. Obama and the GOP, but it isn't because Obama is a crazy leftist. Rather the GOP has been drifting right in recent years, that is what accounts for the disparity. Obama is center-right... it''s just that centrism and the Republican Party has less and less in common lately. The term RINO is used to denote Conservative moderates who haven't changed with the times.
The Republicans were much more right-wing in the past than they are now, not less. Look at Bob Dole's platform in 1996 for example: he was talking about 15% tax cuts across the board and abolishing whole government departments. And he was the moderate in that race, Pat Buchanan was considered the conservative alternative!
by Renaissance Prussia » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:21 pm
Pohlmania wrote:I do think that it's almost inevitable that he will win the election, he's far more moderate than Mitt Romney's made himself out to be, and now that he's gone so far right he's not allowed to go back without looking like a total liar.
The answer as to whether or not I think President Obama will improve after the election this November, I say yes. Given that since 2009, Obama has been hounded with calls that he's not an American, he's a Muslim, he's not a Christian, he's a socialist, and so on and so forth. Since then, I think he's felt like he's had to clear his name rather than lead and that's a huge problem. With a second term - essentially a "lame duck" term, he wouldn't have to worry about getting reelected - he could do all the thing all liberals wish he would do; lead.
President Obama has had a real hard time standing up for himself and his beliefs, specifically with Congress. While "reaching across the aisle" and compromise is definitely the thing that needs to be promoted, giving the Republicans a win at every single juncture is not a winning or leading approach. Hopefully, and I think so, Obama with a second and therefore "lame duck" term he will stand up for himself and do what he wants, how he wants. Right now in this country we badly need a leader. We need someone to inspire us and I definitely think - even as a moderate who supported Hillary in 2008 - that President Obama can really be the man that inspired a generation. Much like that of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, and Ronald Reagan.
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