Some questions to the LGBT community

[Threlizdun]

The LGBTQP community includes so many different orientations and gender identifications due to a common bond of being persecuted for who we are. All of us are seen as taboo when compared to the religious morals many have been raised to believe in. As such, we must band together and reach out to as many as we can to get others to understand their is nothing unusual about us or our lifestyle. We show pride in what we are not because we believe our orientation is superior to heterosexuality, but because we are not ashamed to be something that has been condemned for so long.

[Motuka]

1. all non-straight people are typically lumped together by straight people, sort of like how all non-religious people are typically lumped together by religious people
2. see 1.
3. Flags are cool. Everyone should have a flag.
4. Come up with a better flag and see if people like it. If so, democracy has prevailed. If not, democracy has prevailed.
5. Parades are fun I guess. People who like parades will come up with any excuse to have one. People who don't like parades can I guess not go or something?

it sounds like you want to be thought of as "normal" which is understandable (I guess we all do on some level) but the important thing to remember is that no matter how heteronormative you become—agitating for gay marriage, distancing yourself from pride parades and flags and presenting as "straight" as possible—some portion of the population is still going to think you're a freak. it's sort of like trying to avoid being a jew in nazi germany by converting to christianity. no, they won't like you any better. join the partisans.

*not true*

Thank you. Now you've finished pulling rubbish out of a hat, can we continue?

No I must admit, much of the bi/gay community has ignored transgender people and what they go through. I used to be one of those people, who didn't think it was on equal level, who saw it as a psychological disorder. But I changed for the better, I understand now that transgender people do not have anything wrong in their head, they were just born into the wrong body.

I had to overcome the transphobia indoctrinated into me by a large part of society, and so do many people, including some in the gay community.

yeah if I had to guess I'd think that the proportion of LGB people who accept Ts is roughly equivalent to the proportion of hetero people who accept LGBs.

It's also been my experience that the vast majority of people are transphobic but maybe I just hang out with the wrong crowd... considering a poll.

[Eggy216]

*not true*

Thank you. Now you've finished pulling rubbish out of a hat, can we continue?

No I must admit, much of the bi/gay community has ignored transgender people and what they go through. I used to be one of those people, who didn't think it was on equal level, who saw it as a psychological disorder. But I changed for the better, I understand now that transgender people do not have anything wrong in their head, they were just born into the wrong body.

I had to overcome the transphobia indoctrinated into me by a large part of society, and so do many people, including some in the gay community.

yeah if I had to guess I'd think that the proportion of LGB people who accept Ts is roughly equivalent to the proportion of hetero people who accept LGBs.

It's also been my experience that the vast majority of people are transphobic but maybe I just hang out with the wrong crowd... considering a poll.[/quote]

For me, it's not transphobia. I just don't understand it apparently. For example, my girlfriend is Genderqueer so she feels very strongly about transgender rights. But I just can't make sense of any of it - the different pronouns and things. Everything about it confuses me, and I just need someone to explain it to me well enough that it makes sense.

[Bottle]

For example, my girlfriend is Genderqueer so she feels very strongly about transgender rights. But I just can't make sense of any of it - the different pronouns and things. Everything about it confuses me, and I just need someone to explain it to me well enough that it makes sense.

I suppose I'd qualify as "genderqueer," although I just go with "queer" because it seems that just about everything about my sexuality and orientation is weird.

I've opted to identify as female (which matches my biological sex) for a range of reasons, but unlike Shania Twain I do not, in fact, feel like a woman. I frequently have dreams in which I am male, and those dreams feel very normal to me. I viewed myself as a boy for most of my childhood, although I knew I was biologically a girl (and I knew more about the biological differences between males and females than anybody else my age probably does!). Puberty was especially rough for me because I finally had to confront the fact that my body did not match my internal image of myself.

I don't know if I'd be able to answer any of your questions, but I'd be willing to take a stab at em if you like.

[Motuka]

For me, it's not transphobia. I just don't understand it apparently. For example, my girlfriend is Genderqueer so she feels very strongly about transgender rights. But I just can't make sense of any of it - the different pronouns and things. Everything about it confuses me, and I just need someone to explain it to me well enough that it makes sense.

Well, pronouns are these words we use to refer to people instead of using their names~

seriously though it's pretty hard to understand what it actually feels like to be trans without being there yourself, but I don't see why people have so much trouble with the concept. start out as one gender, it doesn't suit you, become another gender. made sense to me even before i knew what i was. could just be the rarity I guess*—the average person won't ever meet more than one or two transpeople so it's strange and foreign

* although i suspect it's not as rare as the 1:15000 figure you'll see quoted, and that there are a number of people whose gender dysphoria is just not mentally damaging enough that risking hormones and surgery is the safer option but w/e

[Eggy216]

I don't know if I'd be able to answer any of your questions, but I'd be willing to take a stab at em if you like.

To be honest, I have no idea what my questions even are lol.

Well, pronouns are these words we use to refer to people instead of using their names~

Haha the pronoun thing that confuses me is that if I refer to her using any female or male pronouns (such as I just did by using "her") she starts to cry and says I just don't understand. . .

[Bottle]

Haha the pronoun thing that confuses me is that if I refer to her using any female or male pronouns (such as I just did by using "her") she starts to cry and says I just don't understand. . .

I'm gonna just say it: gendered pronouns suck.

Outside a medical context, there is no need for them. Lots of people hate being identified by gender, especially those of us who don't feel that any of the common gender labels fit us. It sucks to have to squeeze yourself into a gendered box that doesn't fit you, eh?

Think about it this way: what if your GF kept calling you by somebody else's name. It probably would hurt your feelings, right? You'd be like, hey, um, that's not my name. Can you please not call that out during moments of passion? That's kind of how it feels when somebody uses a pronoun that doesn't feel "right."

[Grave_n_idle]

The first two groups have to do with sexual orientation while the latter is about gender identity, something quite different.
1.Why the two issues are put together?

Pure math. There's strength in numbers.

[Motuka]

Haha :P the pronoun thing that confuses me is that if I refer to her using any female or male pronouns (such as I just did by using "her") she starts to cry and says I just don't understand. . .

we usually call men "he/him", women "she/her" and everyone else "they/them/their" (singular—it's the only one that has caught on although people have tried to introduce others with limited success)

have you tried actually asking your partner what pronoun they would like to be called though?

I mean I would hope that's the kind of thing that would get sorted out as soon as you found out they were queer... and no that's not a weird question, it's worth asking especially if you do know for sure that they aren't cisgendered

[The Free Isle of Wight]

It gets right on my gourd when people who seam quite pleased with themselves for being progressive tolerant types don't extend that umbrella to fit trans peeps. Many of the same people who virtually carry around flags saying 'Look at me I'm liberal, I'm OK with you being gay" still see trans playaz as confused, perverted or genuinely think they're all figures of fun like drag queens.
It's almost like it hasn't yet qualified as part of the culture of things people ought to be tolerant of like gender, sexuality, race, religion etc.
Which opens up a whole extra group of haters. Perhaps not many of the type who throw rocks, but plenty of the ones that delay progress.

[Keceas]

I really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

[Zeborg]

Hello there.
Recently I realised my bisexual identity and I want to pose some questions to the LGBT community.
I know you might find these questions stupid or annoying but bare with me

The coalition
The LGBT community includes homosexuals, bisexuals and transexuals.
The first two groups have to do with sexual orientation while the latter is about gender identity, something quite different.
1.Why the two issues are put together? I think there should be different organisations for trans people
Moreover, bisexuals are just as different from homosexuals as from heterosexuals
2.Why should bisexuals and gays belong to the same community and organisation?

Symbols
I know that bisexuals, gays and trans have their own flags.
3.What is the point of having flags.Heterosexuals don't have flags.Why should we have flags?
4.And if flags are needed for some reasons, the current flags were not democratically chosen in a contest but rather just 'prevailed'.So shouldn't there be a new contest with more choices?

Pride and parades
I believe that no person, straight or LGBT, should be neither proud nor ashamed of its sexual orientation or gender.It's just who they are
5. What is the purpose of pride parades? It seems to me that the pride parade is something like a carnival, giving the chance to straight people to make fun of LGBT people.

So? what do you think?

What do you think about nationalism and communism? are you a member of thoose ideologies?

[Distruzio]

The LGBTQP community includes so many different orientations and gender identifications due to a common bond of being persecuted for who we are. All of us are seen as taboo when compared to the religious morals many have been raised to believe in. As such, we must band together and reach out to as many as we can to get others to understand their is nothing unusual about us or our lifestyle. We show pride in what we are not because we believe our orientation is superior to heterosexuality, but because we are not ashamed to be something that has been condemned for so long.

I prefer GSM to LGBTIQQAPna;odviune;gphiurhag;ohgasofivhc. It's just so much nicer. Of course I just learned it last week following a trip downtown to see the Vagina Monologues. Gender or Sexuality Minority is so much more inclusive to all of those orientations and gender identifications.

[Forsher]

All I know is that they shouldn't sing about motorways, it's misleading.

2 4 6 8...

[Grave_n_idle]

I really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

"...same damn thing...", "...what the hell is..."

Someone seems to be using a lot of anger language.

Why would you be so bent out of shape by the sexuality of someone else?

[Imperiya]

I guess the answer to most of these questions is in the evolution of the movement. The L's, G's, B's and T's all got grouped together because, at the time that acronym became popular (Stonewall, anyone?) they were on the fringes of society. When we had that mass explosion of pride we all just naturally chose to represent one another. Of course, there have been rifts. The G's and L's have never quite gotten along. The B's are confusing as fuck and the T's are more oppressed than anyone else (this make Ivan sad).

To you, my now sexually liberated friend, I say this: don't ask questions, just enjoy what you're part of now. We have more fun anyway.

[Page]

I really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

Bisexuality means attraction to cisgender males and cisgender females. Pansexuality means potential attraction to everyone across the spectrum, including trans people, intersex people, and gender neutral people.

Genderqueer can be anything that isn't gender normative. A person must not necessarily be trans or intersex in order to be genderqueer, they may identify as ambiguous or neutral as well.

Also, I remember this very helpful picture from another forum which should make this easier for everyone.

[Ertae]

Hello there.
Recently I realised my bisexual identity and I want to pose some questions to the LGBT community.
I know you might find these questions stupid or annoying but bare with me

The coalition
The LGBT community includes homosexuals, bisexuals and transexuals.
The first two groups have to do with sexual orientation while the latter is about gender identity, something quite different.
1.Why the two issues are put together? I think there should be different organisations for trans people
Moreover, bisexuals are just as different from homosexuals as from heterosexuals
2.Why should bissexuals and gays belong to the same community and organisation?

Because they're all discriminated against on the same grounds, i.e. not being a traditional cisgendered heterosexual.

Symbols
I know that bisexuals, gays and trans have their own flags.
3.What is the point of having flags.Heterosexuals don't have flags.Why should we have flags?

Presumably to have something to wave during parades or protests. *shrug*

4.And if flags are needed for some reasons, the current flags were not democratically chosen in a contest but rather just 'prevailed'.So shouldn't there be a new contest with more choices?

I don't really see why. They're just flags.

Pride and parades
I believe that no person, straight or LGBT, should be neither proud nor ashamed of its sexual orientation or gender.It's just who they are
5. What is the purpose of pride parades? It seems to me that the pride parade is something like a carnival, giving the chance to straight people to make fun of LGBT people.

The point is to counter and defy the shame LGBT individuals are told they should feel because they aren't cisgendered heterosexuals. They are told that they are sick, broken, evil, and that they should hide their differences away and never speak of them or act on them. And with pride parades they respond "No, fuck you, there's nothing sick, broken or evil about us and we won't hide away because you say so, you shitstain on the underwear of humanity".

Couldn't say it better myself if I was fully awake right now.

[Bottle]

I really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

"...same damn thing...", "...what the hell is..."

Someone seems to be using a lot of anger language.

Why would you be so bent out of shape by the sexuality of someone else?

For serious. Why do people act like it is such a big fucking deal if people want to identify as something beyond the narrow conventional labels? They act like it is such a hardship to have to remember to use the terms that people have chosen to self-identify with.

I know a guy named Robert who prefers to be called Bob. His son, Robert Jr., is Bobby. I've also got a friend named Robert who goes by Rob. I worked for a Robert who was Robert, nothing else. And a kid on my street was Robbie.

If I started calling Bob "Robbie" instead of Bob, that would be weird. If I kept doing it after he gently reminded me that he goes by Bob, it would graduate to being rude. It is not that fucking hard for me to learn, and accept, that some people pick how they identify, even if the root "term" is the same thing. It's simple courtesy.

Who the fuck cares if somebody refers to their sexuality as "queer" but you think they ought to call themselves "gay"? Unless you're trying to fuck them, their sexuality isn't any of your fucking business anyhow. Just use the term they have selected, the same way you call them by the name they prefer, and get the fuck over it.

[Grave_n_idle]

"...same damn thing...", "...what the hell is..."

Someone seems to be using a lot of anger language.

Why would you be so bent out of shape by the sexuality of someone else?

For serious. Why do people act like it is such a big fucking deal if people want to identify as something beyond the narrow conventional labels? They act like it is such a hardship to have to remember to use the terms that people have chosen to self-identify with.

I know a guy named Robert who prefers to be called Bob. His son, Robert Jr., is Bobby. I've also got a friend named Robert who goes by Rob. I worked for a Robert who was Robert, nothing else. And a kid on my street was Robbie.

If I started calling Bob "Robbie" instead of Bob, that would be weird. If I kept doing it after he gently reminded me that he goes by Bob, it would graduate to being rude. It is not that fucking hard for me to learn, and accept, that some people pick how they identify, even if the root "term" is the same thing. It's simple courtesy.

Who the fuck cares if somebody refers to their sexuality as "queer" but you think they ought to call themselves "gay"? Unless you're trying to fuck them, their sexuality isn't any of your fucking business anyhow. Just use the term they have selected, the same way you call them by the name they prefer, and get the fuck over it.

Conform, dammit! It's so much easier for me if you do.

Apparently.

[Ifreann]

I have to agree with the line about this idea of "pride". Maybe if it were overcoming adversity pride or something of that nature it would make more sense. It seems foolish to have pride in things that merely are.

Function in society while openly gay or transgendered often does involve overcoming adversity. Because, you know, people keep treating them like shit.

---

The point is to counter and defy the shame LGBT individuals are told they should feel because they aren't cisgendered heterosexuals. They are told that they are sick, broken, evil, and that they should hide their differences away and never speak of them or act on them. And with pride parades they respond "No, fuck you, there's nothing sick, broken or evil about us and we won't hide away because you say so, you shitstain on the underwear of humanity".

Thanks.

---

Um, when you use the shower room at the local gym, is that like Christmas morning to you people?

(Ha, Family Guy reference, I kid, I kid).

I don't know about them, but my family has always celebrated by showering communally with strangers.

---

The first two groups have to do with sexual orientation while the latter is about gender identity, something quite different.
1.Why the two issues are put together?

Pure math. There's strength in numbers.

Curse those queers and their godless understanding of which number is bigger.

[Celephais]

Function in society while openly gay or transgendered often does involve overcoming adversity. Because, you know, people keep treating them like shit.

Only true in certain countries and not all which have pride movements. Really, mostly it's an anachronistic holdover.

[Jormengand]

-snip-

Not where I come from that doesn't happen - it's considered about as crazy as saying, for example autistic people have something majorly wrong with them, and are crazy people who should be ignored and made to feel like shit.

And Alyakia, it's called personal experience. Maybe It'd help if you read the sixth word in my sig

[Ifreann]

Function in society while openly gay or transgendered often does involve overcoming adversity. Because, you know, people keep treating them like shit.

Only true in certain countries and not all which have pride movements. Really, mostly it's an anachronistic holdover.

I could be wrong about this(being a straight, white man I'm not what you might call an expert in the adversity faced by teh gheyz*), but I dare say there's only a small number of those certain countries.













*#firstworldproblems

[Alyakia]

-snip-

Not where I come from that doesn't happen - it's considered about as crazy as saying, for example autistic people have something majorly wrong with them, and are crazy people who should be ignored and made to feel like shit.

And Alyakia, it's called personal experience. Maybe It'd help if you read the sixth word in my sig

The sixth word? Bisexual? Fuck, guess that overrides my personal experience and the personal experience of other trans people. (And I guess every other poster.)