NationStates

I was eating lunch with two of my closest friends and a friend from France (we are all in uni) when we got on the topic of politics and culture. The French foreign exchange student commented on how bizarre it was that people could easily purchase guns in the states but have such trouble getting decent healthcare, etc and generally bashing on conservative policies and stuff when all of a sudden my friend says "yeah, we're liberals, its our job to make America more like France" or something along those lines.

To which I responded with, "whoa, you actually admitted that?" O_o

I've always been a big fan of Europe, I lived in England for a while and loved it. Sure, it has its share of problems such as knife stabbings, teen alcohol abuse and high teen pregnancy rates, but I was so impressed with the difference in attitudes and the general culture that I fell in love with the UK within three days of staying there whereas I've never felt this way about the states (after living here for almost eleven years).

Is it just me, or do other liberals have this "sense of duty" to help America become as enlightened as western Europe where a society does not abandon its worst off, and has higher accountability to the environment, values such as social equality, humanism, etc as well? Or am I just a crazy lefty college student?

Yes. Specifically, Eastern Europe. Between 1945 and 1989.

And now that there's at least one admitted Communist in the Obamunist regime, namely Van Jones, and most likely many others, that possiblity is closer than ever to realization.

Nah, no worries. The USA doesn't meet the requirement to join the EC. But who knows, maybe later?

New Mitanni wrote:Yes. Specifically, Eastern Europe. Between 1945 and 1989.

And now that there's at least one admitted Communist in the Obamunist regime, namely Van Jones, and most likely many others, that possiblity is closer than ever to realization.

Hmm, I'm not sure if any liberals (that I personally know of) actually favour socialism in the form of Eastern Europe in 1945-1989. I know that's the implicit/explicit fear of many uninformed Americans, but most democratic-socialist leaning lefties (myself included) are working towards the socialism of Western Europe, 21st century (ex: Norway, Sweden, etc) and not the failed USSR + friends states.

Kind of.
I do not think most American Liberals would go as far as France, but most American liberals do want things like healthcare, preservation of the environment, and social equality.

Many also seek to mix the European and American cultures a bit more. Less Red State culture, and more sophisticated intellectual culture.

The far left by American Standards wants things like Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism. Not much of an extreme left in America, either that or they are to afraid to stick their heads out. Though I think most people that are left or far left are afraid to stand up because of people like Senator McCarthy Glenn Beck who demonize them.

Some who identify as liberals might want that; those who listen to NPR and dote on the NY Times.

But many in my acquaintance just want to be Americans with freedom, access to information, a chance to work together where they live, and some work to do. They don't accept at face value what they are told by huge corporations, so that seems to make them suspect in certain circles.

It seems more stupid to not do something because someone else is doing it even than simply doing something because someone else does it.

We assembled ourselves from largely borrowed ideas and ideals, it would seem stupid to now insist that we only use our own even if someone else's work. Granted, because something works in one place doesn't mean it's going to work somewhere else, but it would be foolish to think that we can't learn from others.

Port Arcana wrote:I was eating lunch with two of my closest friends and a friend from France (we are all in uni) when we got on the topic of politics and culture. The French foreign exchange student commented on how bizarre it was that people could easily purchase guns in the states but have such trouble getting decent healthcare, etc and generally bashing on conservative policies and stuff when all of a sudden my friend says "yeah, we're liberals, its our job to make America more like France" or something along those lines.

To which I responded with, "whoa, you actually admitted that?" O_o

I've always been a big fan of Europe, I lived in England for a while and loved it. Sure, it has its share of problems such as knife stabbings, teen alcohol abuse and high teen pregnancy rates, but I was so impressed with the difference in attitudes and the general culture that I fell in love with the UK within three days of staying there whereas I've never felt this way about the states (after living here for almost eleven years).

Is it just me, or do other liberals have this "sense of duty" to help America become as enlightened as western Europe where a society does not abandon its worst off, and has higher accountability to the environment, values such as social equality, humanism, etc as well? Or am I just a crazy lefty college student?

No. You're not crazy. The world needs more liberals. And frankly from my experiences we are much nicer people. We are more tolerant, etc.

I wouldn't mind, except for the extremely strict gun laws. Loosen those up and you'd pretty much have the perfect country.

New Mitanni wrote:Better Jack than Barack.

Who is Jack?

Cannot think of a name wrote:

New Mitanni wrote:Better Jack than Barack.

Who is Jack?

Maybe NM meant jack squat?

What the hell does that even mean?
Last time I checked, France and Britain didn't have skyrocketing murder rates or a plummeting economy despite a gun market the size of Jupiter. :D

But, as a member of the biggest bunch of liberals around,I guess I shouldn't talk: after all, I didn't get that AKS-74U sitting in my closet from a frackin' JCPenney's. I do believe in America's gun laws; after all, I don't want a Bible-Thumping Neo-Nazi regime to come busting down my house looking for pornography and Communist propaganda. Trust me, I see another pundit trying to pay me to post up another "Children of God" pamphlet up on my windows, I'll shoot him/her. I just don't think ANYONE should be allowed to own a gun. Conservatives must agree: those terrorists that bombed the W.T.C. didn't get THEIR guns from a JCPenney's either. We need LESS guns, not more.

As for Healthcare... well, I still don't get what the big deal is. People keep talking about how a bureaucrat will get in the way of some poor little old lady's meds... well, how is that any different from today? Instead of a "bureaucrat", there's a businessman in her way. Healthcare reform is about making it EASIER for people to get their medicine, not harder. Private healthcare companies were given their chance, and they abused the privileges the American gubernatorial body gave them along with our banks. Last time I checked, it was the American people that matter the most, not the companies that leech money from them. If it takes a little regulation, I'm all for it.

If by "turning America into Europe" you mean "improving the quality of life for people", then, yes.

If you mean anything else, no. Don't really give a damn what the European countries do if it isn't something that we can implement and use to the advantage of human beings.

Gauntleted Fist wrote:If by "turning America into Europe" you mean "improving the quality of life for people", then, yes.

Improving the quality of life. I have you heard the stories about all the bad things that happen under NHS care. Plus they outlawed Guns in England and surrenderd power to the EU. I don`t want america to be controled by a world goverment.

Also I want my right to own a gun because their is less crime here than there is in england.

Unfortunately yes.

Europe is an emasuclated shell of its former self.

The perfect country would be modern America's civil rights, coupled with 50s America's industrial strength.

Cannot think of a name wrote:

New Mitanni wrote:Better Jack than Barack.

Who is Jack?

I have no idea, but it's a god-awful rhyme. Unless, of course, New Mitanni actually meant to type Jacques. A Freudian slip? Perhaps he's a closet European socialist.

New Mitanni wrote:Yes. Specifically, Eastern Europe. Between 1945 and 1989.

I get it! It's funny because Barack Obama is pushing for public option health care, which is exactly like the brutal Soviet regime that killed millions of people!

History land wrote:Improving the quality of life. I have you heard the stories about all the bad things that happen under NHS care. Plus they outlawed Guns in England and surrenderd power to the EU. I don`t want america to be controled by a world goverment.

Also I want my right to own a gun because their is less crime here than there is in england.

Is this satire? Yes... yes, it is. At least, that is what I will tell myself before I go to sleep.

Also we need the right to own guns otherwise the goverment will commite Democide

Democide "the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder."

Also totalitarian goverments banned guns like Hitler,Mao and Stalin. So that means the UK is a totalitarian goverment under Prime Minister (AKA Dictator) Gordon Brown and controled by the Labor Party (aka Communist Party) of England.

History land wrote:

Gauntleted Fist wrote:If by "turning America into Europe" you mean "improving the quality of life for people", then, yes.

Improving the quality of life. I have you heard the stories about all the bad things that happen under NHS care. Plus they outlawed Guns in England and surrenderd power to the EU. I don`t want america to be controled by a world goverment.

Also I want my right to own a gun because their is less crime here than there is in england.

As opposed to having people who don't get health care, I will settle for something like the NHS. Its better than the current American system.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

And about crime, only 3 European countries are higher than the US, and the US is higher than all in murder. That is what all these guns lead to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... urder_rate
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita

Brogavia wrote:Europe is an emasuclated shell of its former self. .

You know, Brogavia, I've noticed that you seem rather preoccupied with emasculation.

No, I don't have anything to say. I just wanted to point it out.

History land wrote:Also totalitarian goverments banned guns like Hitler,Mao and Stalin. So that means the UK is a totalitarian goverment under Prime Minister (AKA Dictator) Gordon Brown and controled by the Labor Party (aka Communist Party) of England.

And dolphins are fish because they live in the ocean.

Nah, we just want to improve the country.

History land wrote:

Gauntleted Fist wrote:If by "turning America into Europe" you mean "improving the quality of life for people", then, yes.

Improving the quality of life. I have you heard the stories about all the bad things that happen under NHS care.

You mean all the ones that get made up?

Plus they outlawed Guns in England and surrenderd power to the EU. I don`t want america to be controled by a world goverment.

Do you mind if I just point and laugh at that?

Also I want my right to own a gun because their is less crime here than there is in england.

Depends on your idea of crime, but it should be noted that in terms of murders, the US ranks 24th and the UK 46th. Rapes, US 9th, UK 13th and so on.

I want the US to be like Netherlands.

Oh no a history land hyjack again.

Chrobalta wrote:

History land wrote:

Gauntleted Fist wrote:If by "turning America into Europe" you mean "improving the quality of life for people", then, yes.

Improving the quality of life. I have you heard the stories about all the bad things that happen under NHS care. Plus they outlawed Guns in England and surrenderd power to the EU. I don`t want america to be controled by a world goverment.

Also I want my right to own a gun because their is less crime here than there is in england.

As opposed to having people who don't get health care, I will settle for something like the NHS. Its better than the current American system.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

And about crime, only 3 European countries are higher than the US, and the US is higher than all in murder. That is what all these guns lead to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... urder_rate
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita

You do know Hitler,Mao and Stalin banned guns right and looked what happen. Plus yes we have some healthcare problems here because we have too much goverment interferance. I approve of a private healtcare across the board that means medicare and medicade are privatised and all regulations on the Health Insurance compines are removed. That would stop fraud and abuse and also will be able to insure more people.