The BNP's electoral chances.

[Machiavellionia]

This is just following on from a thread of mine concerning Britain and FPTP, where the BNP sprung up. People's views seemed to differ greatly concerning whether they would ever win a seat in the UK Parliament.

So, I'm opening this thing up. Regardless of your views on the BNP, do you think they ever have any hope of Parliamentary representation, either under FPTP or any other system?

Some seemed to think that AV was the only hope for them, but I disagree. I personally feel that PR would almost definitely give them at least a seat, but other than that their hopes lie with FPTP. AV would require half the constituency to express a preference for them, and I just don't think that's likely. With first past the post, all the have to achieve is being in a constituency where the vote is greatly divided between a large number of parties, then just scrape through with the most. Judging from previous results, I see it as very likely that in an election in the not too distance future, the BNP will manage to get an MP.

Please, please, PLEASE keep this civil. I know the BNP are a touchy subject for some, but please don't be throwing words like 'bigot' or 'fascist' or 'scum' or anything of their ilk in an angry manner. We're British (mostly. I assume most people posting in this thread will be). Remember our manners.

[Ostroeuropa]

They might get one seat.
Possibly two at a stretch.
Thats about as far as i see them going, like the communists.

[Yootwopia]

So, I'm opening this thing up. Regardless of your views on the BNP, do you think they ever have any hope of Parliamentary representation, either under FPTP or any other system?

Under PR, yes, but those fascist plebian dole bastards will never get more than a couple of seats in FPTP, even if New Labour continues its long slide into utter shittiness.

[Hippostania]

I really hope that they will never get a seat in the parliament..

[Machiavellionia]

They might get one seat.
Possibly two at a stretch.
Thats about as far as i see them going, like the communists.

Interesting fact: Britain has only ever had two communist MPs (as in, members of the Communist party, rather than just, say, Labour members with communist tendencies.) and they were both thrown out of Parliament in around 1962. For fighting. With each other.

[Ostroeuropa]

They might get one seat.
Possibly two at a stretch.
Thats about as far as i see them going, like the communists.

Interesting fact: Britain has only ever had two communist MPs (as in, members of the Communist party, rather than just, say, Labour members with communist tendencies.) and they were both thrown out of Parliament in around 1962. For fighting. With each other.

Yeh, which is about as far as I see the BNP getting, one, maybe two, and not for very long.

[Angleter]

I don't think they'll ever get a seat unless we introduce PR. They're on the decline now, anyway, IIRC.

[Alyakia]

They might get one seat.
Possibly two at a stretch.
Thats about as far as i see them going, like the communists.

Interesting fact: Britain has only ever had two communist MPs (as in, members of the Communist party, rather than just, say, Labour members with communist tendencies.) and they were both thrown out of Parliament in around 1962. For fighting. With each other.

The left summed up in one post.

[Britcan]

I can't see them getting a seat under FPTP or AV for the foreseeable future. UKIP, on the other hand, might.

[Beth Gellert]

I think the BNP's primary concern at the moment is their inability to pay their debts and the prospect of being dissolved. The party's already splintering. Terrible shame, I know.

[Machiavellionia]

Interesting fact: Britain has only ever had two communist MPs (as in, members of the Communist party, rather than just, say, Labour members with communist tendencies.) and they were both thrown out of Parliament in around 1962. For fighting. With each other.

The left summed up in one post.

God bless traditional left wing factionalism and infighting....

EDIT: Is it sad for me to sig my own post? I do think it's an interesting fact.

[Cosgravia]

I am a proud Scottish Nationalist, and i am sick to the back teeth of people calling me a facist and assuming that the SNP is the same as the BNP. It is not. The SNP is a centre party that leans to the right like all nationalist parties. The SNP's main policy is Scottish independence, and they believe firmly that Scotland is a global success story in terms of cultural diversity. The BNP are far right facists who believe in white supremacy and want to kick every person who is not white, straight, Christian and of white-British origin out of the UK. They have recently had to change their rules and have been forced to allow non-white members. I say every man, woman and child of every colour and creed in Britain should join up and oust the spam faced hatemongerer Nick Griffin and his racist cronies before disbanding the whole party.

[Vellosia]

If they have a really charismatic leader, then they could have a chance.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

BNP's opposition to LGBT rights and the history of activist violence by them has put me off voting for them.

[Yootwopia]

I am a proud Scottish Nationalist, and i am sick to the back teeth of people calling me a facist and assuming that the SNP is the same as the BNP.

Who has ever said this?

[Georgizm]

BNP's opposition to LGBT rights and the history of activist violence by them has put me off voting for them.

That's all?

[Machiavellionia]

I am a proud Scottish Nationalist, and i am sick to the back teeth of people calling me a facist and assuming that the SNP is the same as the BNP. It is not. The SNP is a centre party that leans to the right like all nationalist parties. The SNP's main policy is Scottish independence, and they believe firmly that Scotland is a global success story in terms of cultural diversity. The BNP are far right facists who believe in white supremacy and want to kick every person who is not white, straight, Christian and of white-British origin out of the UK. They have recently had to change their rules and have been forced to allow non-white members. I say every man, woman and child of every colour and creed in Britain should join up and oust the spam faced hatemongerer Nick Griffin and his racist cronies before disbanding the whole party.

Okay, rather than just angry spouting, do you think they could actually ever achieve a seat? Putting your personal views aside.

[Georgizm]

I am a proud Scottish Nationalist, and i am sick to the back teeth of people calling me a facist and assuming that the SNP is the same as the BNP.

Who has ever said this?

Eejits.

[Ostroeuropa]

Plaid Cymru is left wing and welsh-nationalist...

[Yootwopia]

Plaid Cymru is left wing and welsh-nationalist...

Right... but it doesn't call for the 'voluntary resettlement' of Those Darkie Types, restrictions on the rights of the fruitier members of society, or some kind of 1890s school discipline type affair.

[Ostroeuropa]

Plaid Cymru is left wing and welsh-nationalist...

Right... but it doesn't call for the 'voluntary resettlement' of Those Darkie Types, restrictions on the rights of the fruitier members of society, or some kind of 1890s school discipline type affair.

Ofcourse not. We're far too busy burning down the homes of these english people for that
Both the SNP and Plaid Cymru are best described as independence parties rather than nationalist.

[Angleter]

The SNP is a centre party that leans to the right like all nationalist parties. The SNP's main policy is Scottish independence, and they believe firmly that Scotland is a global success story in terms of cultural diversity.

As much as I agree with the sentiment about nationalism and BNPism getting mixed up, surely you mean ethnic diversity rather than cultural diversity, because the latter would generally be at odds with Scottish nationalism and its general belief in Scotland as a national-cultural unit.

[Britcan]

I am a proud Scottish Nationalist, and i am sick to the back teeth of people calling me a facist and assuming that the SNP is the same as the BNP. It is not. The SNP is a centre party that leans to the right like all nationalist parties. The SNP's main policy is Scottish independence, and they believe firmly that Scotland is a global success story in terms of cultural diversity. The BNP are far right facists who believe in white supremacy and want to kick every person who is not white, straight, Christian and of white-British origin out of the UK. They have recently had to change their rules and have been forced to allow non-white members. I say every man, woman and child of every colour and creed in Britain should join up and oust the spam faced hatemongerer Nick Griffin and his racist cronies before disbanding the whole party.

Well the fact that they support students from the rest of the UK paying more to go to Scottish universities than anyone else could be considered racist.

[Angleter]

Right... but it doesn't call for the 'voluntary resettlement' of Those Darkie Types, restrictions on the rights of the fruitier members of society, or some kind of 1890s school discipline type affair.

Ofcourse not. We're far too busy burning down the homes of these english people for that
Both the SNP and Plaid Cymru are best described as independence parties rather than nationalist.

They are probably nationalist, in that they believe in the Scottish/Welsh nation and to protect its culture, but of course that isn't the same as separatism. For example, Québec's Union Nationale in the 1950s was Québécois nationalist but not separatist- and the same for the Scottish Unionist Party.

[Alyakia]

The SNP is a centre party that leans to the right like all nationalist parties. The SNP's main policy is Scottish independence, and they believe firmly that Scotland is a global success story in terms of cultural diversity.

As much as I agree with the sentiment about nationalism and BNPism getting mixed up, surely you mean ethnic diversity rather than cultural diversity, because the latter would generally be at odds with Scottish nationalism and its general belief in Scotland as a national-cultural unit.

Not really, no.