P51 Mustang Vs. Japanese Zero

[Wilgrove]

Ok, apparently none of us has ever heard of a hypothetical. I know these aircraft rarely met in real life, that's kinda the point of the discussion? The P51 dominated the skies in the European Theater as an Escort and bombing fighter, and the Japanese Zero dominated the Pacific Theater early on as a fighter and struck fear into the Allied Naval Fleet as a Suicide bomber later on in the theater.

However, since we apparently can't live with alittle inaccuracies to have a fun discussion, I'll admen the parameters, both aircraft takes off from an island to meet up in the skies in the Pacific, this would be the time when the Allies are Island Hopping, making their way towards Japan.

As for the aircraft, P51D vs A6M8 Type 0 Model 64 Japanese Zero.

Better?

[Greed and Death]

Mustang because it was built 3 years later. When war is involved technology changes quickly.

[Licana]

Is this a joke?

The only thing the Zero has on a P51 is the ability to create pretty explosions when shot at and crash into ships.

[Licana]

Mustang because it was built 3 years later. When war is involved technology changes quickly.

Mustang is actually only about a year older than the Zero.

Zero's first flight being in Early '39, Mustang in Late '40.

[Potarius]

Another AHII vet
sucking p-47, p-51 noobs into low alt knife fights was always fun

My callsign on AHII is Fruda. Yeah, the guy who makes (well, I haven't done it in a while, but I will again) sounds. My dedicated sound packs thread is perma-stickied on the Custom Sounds & Skins forum.

And what you say is 100% true. Perk farming in the A6M2 against USAAF noobs is intensely entertaining.

[Potarius]

Mustang because it was built 3 years later. When war is involved technology changes quickly.

Mustang is actually only about a year older than the Zero.

Zero's first flight being in Early '39, Mustang in Late '40.

And it was utter shit with the Allison engine. Only when it was equipped with the Merlin was it a good aircraft, and that was quite some time after 1940.

[New Korongo]

In a one on one fight, I heard the Zero had a kill ratio of 12:1 and I think the Mustang has a 11:1. In the hands of a good pilot the Zero would win but then again in 1944 these were in short supply for the IJN so I would vote the Mustang. Your date is biased.

[Potarius]

In a one on one fight, I heard the Zero had a kill ratio of 12:1 and I think the Mustang has a 11:1. In the hands of a good pilot the Zero would win but then again in 1944 these were in short supply for the IJN so I would vote the Mustang. Your date is biased.

...Not really, no.

In the hands of a good pilot, a Zero would still have tremendous difficulty against a P-51D flown to its strengths. The P-51D can always make a fight with a Zero its own, whereas the pilot of the Zero has to wait for the pilot of the Mustang to be stupid enough to get low and slow with it.

[The Corparation]

Mustang. Partially because they were newer (not much but wars a bitch and tech moves fast) and also because the planes usually had competent pilots. Something japan ran out of early in the war.

[New Orcrimmar]

The P-51 would win.

[Arkinesia]

I'd say the 'Stang but I think a more interesting scenario, had the war dragged on past 1945 and into Operation Downfall, would be the Nakajima Kikka vs. P-80 Shooting Star.

Unfortunately I'd say the Kikka would have a better chance since it was based on the Me-262, which was later found to be superior to the P-80 in postwar tests. According to Chuck Yeager, who piloted countless test aircraft, the first US platform to outclass the Me-262 was in fact the Sabre. The P-80 however could beat it using some proper tactics.

Who cares? The Tuskegee Airmen drew first blood of a jet plane in Mustangs.

Yeager did the same not long after, catching a Sturmvogel on landing. Basically it doesn't matter what your plane can do if you get jumped.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

For a lot of the war the Japanese pilots were better trained(since the US was using conscript pilots fresh out of training and their only experience was generally in the same war they were already fighting. By the time the US pilots were experienced the Japanese Navy and Air Force had been all but destroyed,) and the Zero was much closer to a "true" fighter than the Mustang. As for Lacadaemon's post regarding the Me262, I would agree the Me would win out. The Meteor had some issues and German pilots through both world wars were almost always top notch. Something like half the top 10 fighter aces were German, and there was obviously the total fucking genius that was Erich Hartmann with his 350 air victories.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

I'd say the 'Stang but I think a more interesting scenario, had the war dragged on past 1945 and into Operation Downfall, would be the Nakajima Kikka vs. P-80 Shooting Star.

Unfortunately I'd say the Kikka would have a better chance since it was based on the Me-262, which was later found to be superior to the P-80 in postwar tests. According to Chuck Yeager, who piloted countless test aircraft, the first US platform to outclass the Me-262 was in fact the Sabre. The P-80 however could beat it using some proper tactics.

Who cares? The Tuskegee Airmen drew first blood of a jet plane in Mustangs.

Yeager did the same not long after, catching a Sturmvogel on landing. Basically it doesn't matter what your plane can do if you get jumped.

True, true.

[Mosasauria]

Teh P-51 was a british designed escort fighter/ground attack plane. And the zero was a total rip off of the pre-war hughes. Neither of them are particularly good examples of a pure fighter, so it isn't a fair comparison (given the different mission types).

A far better thread would be Gloster Meteor v. Messerschmitt Me 262.

Probably the Me 262 would win that one. But its engines were considerably crapper than the Gloster.

Now that is a fight I would like to see.
Either that or Messerschmitt v. Zero

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Teh P-51 was a british designed escort fighter/ground attack plane. And the zero was a total rip off of the pre-war hughes. Neither of them are particularly good examples of a pure fighter, so it isn't a fair comparison (given the different mission types).

A far better thread would be Gloster Meteor v. Messerschmitt Me 262.

Probably the Me 262 would win that one. But its engines were considerably crapper than the Gloster.

Now that is a fight I would like to see.
Either that or Messerschmitt v. Zero

Messerschmitt wins vs about every fighter in the war by my reckoning, and most of the fighters up until we started using jet engines.

[The Corparation]

Basically it doesn't matter what your plane can do if you get jumped.

This last bit makes me sad. Only downside to the ME-163B. Sitting Duck on landing. Oh and there was the fact it was prone to blowing up for no reason at all, and its guns jammed, and it flew too fast to allow pilots to properly take aim and fire before it shook to much throwing of their aim and rocketing them past the bombers. Still a snazzy little plane. Best damn plane in the war. Also remained fastest plane until the Bell X-1. If war had gone on a few more years the Krauts could of broken the sound barrier with the thing.

[New Korongo]

what about Me 262 vs. de Havilland Vampire

[The Corparation]

Now that is a fight I would like to see.
Either that or Messerschmitt v. Zero

Messerschmitt wins vs about every fighter in the war by my reckoning, and most of the fighters up until we started using jet engines.

Rocket engines >jet engines.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

Messerschmitt wins vs about every fighter in the war by my reckoning, and most of the fighters up until we started using jet engines.

Rocket engines >jet engines.

I would say it's a damn shame that Hitler and Goering screwed around so much with the development of the Me262, they really could have maintained a massive air superiority advantage had they rolled it out in 1942 instead of delaying it 2 years.

[Arkinesia]

Only downside to the ME-163B.

Other than it had to idle almost the entire flight due to the fact it could only carry 'bout four minutes' worth of fuel?

[Wikipedia and Universe]

Rocket engines >jet engines.

I would say it's a damn shame that Hitler and Goering screwed around so much with the development of the Me262, they really could have maintained a massive air superiority advantage had they rolled it out in 1942 instead of delaying it 2 years.

By "it's a damn shame", do you mean you wish you could see what it would have done, or that it's actually a bad thing that they delayed it and could not gain superiority?

[The Corparation]

Other than it had to idle almost the entire flight due to the fact it could only carry 'bout four minutes' worth of fuel?

Left that one out. Still got most of the other problems in. Still aweome plane with manliest pilots in the war. It takes balls to get into a plane that has a bad habit of randomly blowing up. IT takes even more balls to actually shoot shit down with it. Then there were all the nifty weapons they tried on it. Like rockets. And the Upward firing photocell triggered cannons that fired automatically when under an enemy bomber.

[Brandenburg-Altmark]

I would say it's a damn shame that Hitler and Goering screwed around so much with the development of the Me262, they really could have maintained a massive air superiority advantage had they rolled it out in 1942 instead of delaying it 2 years.

By "it's a damn shame", do you mean you wish you could see what it would have done, or that it's actually a bad thing that they delayed it and could not gain superiority?

Eh, either way.

[Saurisisia]

Easy: The P-51. It was fast, maneuverable, possessed long-range, and had significant firepower which, while small in comparison to the Zero's deadly arsenal of cannons and machine guns, was sufficient enough to shred the lightly-armored Zero to shreds.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

By "it's a damn shame", do you mean you wish you could see what it would have done, or that it's actually a bad thing that they delayed it and could not gain superiority?

Eh, either way.

Wait, so both? Re-start the Battle of Britain? Beat back the Normandy invasion? You wish that would have happened?