NationStates

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:20 pm**

Internationalist Bastard wrote:What confuses me is that you genuinely believe what you’re repeating

It confuses you that I genuinely believe I haven't accused you of torture or force once in this entire thread despite you denying it with every breath?

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:23 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:What confuses me is that you genuinely believe what you’re repeating

It confuses you that I genuinely believe I haven't accused you of torture or force once in this entire thread despite you denying it with every breath?

Oh my Tengri
I wasn’t actually saying that you were accusing me of torturing you I was saying that your claiming I’m forcing people to change their beliefs by literally asking someone to do something and being upset that they don’t do it. Which in no way matches up with force in anyway

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:24 pm**

"Male" and "female", as well as intersex, are terms that refer to an organisms biological sex. You cannot change this.

Gender however, includes things such as "man", "woman", "transgender", "queer", etc.. These are social constructs which do not exist in reality, but are merely an attempt to describe and categorise one's position on the masculine<>androgynous<>feminine spectrum of gender.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:24 pm**

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Oh my Tengri
I wasn’t actually saying that you were accusing me of torturing you I was saying that your claiming I’m forcing people to change their beliefs by literally asking someone to do something and being upset that they don’t do it. Which in no way matches up with force in anyway

Okay so I was half right, you're confused that I genuinely believe I have never accused you of using force in the entire thread despite the fact that you deny it with your every breath.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:27 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Oh my Tengri
I wasn’t actually saying that you were accusing me of torturing you I was saying that your claiming I’m forcing people to change their beliefs by literally asking someone to do something and being upset that they don’t do it. Which in no way matches up with force in anyway

Okay so I was half right, you're confused that I genuinely believe I have never accused you of using force in the entire thread despite the fact that you deny it with your every breath.

Im going to blow my brains out
You said it’s forcing people to change or suppress their beliefs

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:30 pm**

Internationalist Bastard wrote:Im going to blow my brains out
You said it’s forcing people to change or suppress their beliefs

How many times do I have to say I never accused you of forcing anyone for you to stop saying that or prove it? I'm genuinely curious.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:34 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Then I’m allowed to think I’m part of the master race and treat others as subhuman. I’m not suppressing my beliefs just to look polite

A great comparison if men or women constituted a master race and that ones gender determined whether or not they were sub-human.

I’m not actually going to keep up this argument
I’m going to turn off my phone for the rest of the night, and I’m going to go and punch some things
I’ll see all tomorrow

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:34 pm**

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
Okay so I was half right, you're confused that I genuinely believe I have never accused you of using force in the entire thread despite the fact that you deny it with your every breath.

Im going to blow my brains out
You said it’s forcing people to change or suppress their beliefs

Please don't.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:37 pm**

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’m not actually going to keep up this argument
I’m going to turn off my phone for the rest of the night, and I’m going to go and punch some things
I’ll see all tomorrow

Take all the time you need, I look forward to your eventual update on where I accused you of using force or acknowledgement that I never did. If it helps you out I've gone through this entire thread and I haven't used the word force except for in in quotations while refuting I've used the word force.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:47 pm**

Skunkylon wrote:There are only 2 genders

3 genders for the Drag Queens, under the sky
7 for the Gay Lords, in their Hall of Techno
9 for Lesbians, doomed to own cats
1 for the Incel Lord on his internet throne.

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:15 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’m not actually going to keep up this argument
I’m going to turn off my phone for the rest of the night, and I’m going to go and punch some things
I’ll see all tomorrow

Take all the time you need, I look forward to your eventual update on where I accused you of using force or acknowledgement that I never did. If it helps you out I've gone through this entire thread and I haven't used the word force except for in in quotations while refuting I've used the word force.

(It seems like you two are going to keep doing this for a while, so if I may cut in I’ll just try to assess the situation)
Des-Bal, you are correct in stating that you never used the word force, and I don’t believe you ever implied that Internationalist Bastard was physically forcing you to change your beliefs.

Des-Bal wrote:Well there's also the issue that pronouns reference a state of being not a title. Demanding someone who does not believe you are female refer to you as female is demanding this person accept as fact something they do not believe to be true.

However, the word “demanding” does imply a sort of social forcing someone, depending on one’s interpretation of the word force. But of course, this is not entirely the same interpretation that Internationalist Bastard was using in her hyperbole of “torture”. However, “demanding” can still imply that there will be some solid consequence if you do not comply. So the question becomes, what did you mean to imply with the word “demanding?”

Posted: **Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:29 pm**

Starpoint wrote:

(It seems like you two are going to keep doing this for a while, so if I may cut in I’ll just try to assess the situation)
Des-Bal, you are correct in stating that you never used the word force, and I don’t believe you ever implied that Internationalist Bastard was physically forcing you to change your beliefs.

However, the word “demanding” does imply a sort of social forcing someone, depending on one’s interpretation of the word force. But of course, this is not entirely the same interpretation that Internationalist Bastard was using in her hyperbole of “torture”. However, “demanding” can still imply that there will be some solid consequence if you do not comply. So the question becomes, what did you mean to imply with the word “demanding?”

To clarify these are not my beliefs I have no problem using the pronouns a person's comfortable with provided they stick to the binary.

Demand in this sense meant to request and feel entitled to have that request granted.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:17 am**

90s guys, sing along: "I'm not a boy ... not yet a ma-a-an!" - I don't know, whether I ever said, I'm a "male" mostly because in German the word would be "Männchen" which is just a diminutive for for "Mann" (=man), and this works counter-productive to the idea of avoiding the term "boy" to refer to me. But then again I have no problem to refer to a group of female humans at least some of which are adults as "women" even if there are girls among them.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:28 am**

I believe people can publicly classify themselves as whatever they want.

It just becomes an issue when your fantasies dictate the speech of other people.

--
Unrelated but relevant point.. As far as health concerns go. The sex you are born with needs to be the one placed.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:36 am**

Kaledoria wrote:90s guys, sing along: "I'm not a boy ... not yet a ma-a-an!" - I don't know, whether I ever said, I'm a "male" mostly because in German the word would be "Männchen" which is just a diminutive for for "Mann" (=man), and this works counter-productive to the idea of avoiding the term "boy" to refer to me. But then again I have no problem to refer to a group of female humans at least some of which are adults as "women" even if there are girls among them.

What about the phrase "boys in blue?"

I've always thought "boy" and "girl" were closer to being age-neutral than "man" and "woman" were.

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:38 am**

Male and female are the two biological genders though, no need to change anything

Posted: **Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:47 pm**

Basically, 'other peoples genitals' is kind of a personal subject that is rarely relevant in day to day life. Same goes for other people's hormones. And most people I know don't even know what their DNA is like, because it's never been necessary for them to find out.
The situation described in the OP has nothing to do with any of those.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:25 pm**

Marginal Territory wrote:Basically, 'other peoples genitals' is kind of a personal subject that is rarely relevant in day to day life. Same goes for other people's hormones.

What of their effects on people's thoughts and behaviours?

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:42 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
To clarify these are not my beliefs I have no problem using the pronouns a person's comfortable with provided they stick to the binary.

What's so demanding or difficult about using "they" for non-binary people? Before any of us had ever heard of non-binary gender identities, we were already using the singular they to describe a singular person of unknown gender anyway. The singular they didn't start out as a political correctness thing, it's been around for hundreds of years because we all realized that saying "he or she" is snobby and pretentious.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm**

Kaledoria wrote:90s guys, sing along: "I'm not a boy ... not yet a ma-a-an!" - I don't know, whether I ever said, I'm a "male" mostly because in German the word would be "Männchen" which is just a diminutive for for "Mann" (=man), and this works counter-productive to the idea of avoiding the term "boy" to refer to me. But then again I have no problem to refer to a group of female humans at least some of which are adults as "women" even if there are girls among them.

German is my second language so I'm not totally clear on this, but don't you use "Kerl" like English speakers use "guy"?

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:16 pm**

Page wrote:What's so demanding or difficult about using "they" for non-binary people? Before any of us had ever heard of non-binary gender identities, we were already using the singular they to describe a singular person of unknown gender anyway. The singular they didn't start out as a political correctness thing, it's been around for hundreds of years because we all realized that saying "he or she" is snobby and pretentious.

Well 1) I find it awkward and 2) I haven't been persuaded that non-binary is a thing people can be.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:20 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
Page wrote:What's so demanding or difficult about using "they" for non-binary people? Before any of us had ever heard of non-binary gender identities, we were already using the singular they to describe a singular person of unknown gender anyway. The singular they didn't start out as a political correctness thing, it's been around for hundreds of years because we all realized that saying "he or she" is snobby and pretentious.

Well 1) I find it awkward and 2) I haven't been persuaded that non-binary is a thing people can be.

1. Why? It's perfectly grammatically correct.
2. The world isn't just black and white, not everything can be labeled or fit neatly into nice little groups or binaries, no matter how much you want them to.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:23 pm**

Des-Bal wrote:
Page wrote:What's so demanding or difficult about using "they" for non-binary people? Before any of us had ever heard of non-binary gender identities, we were already using the singular they to describe a singular person of unknown gender anyway. The singular they didn't start out as a political correctness thing, it's been around for hundreds of years because we all realized that saying "he or she" is snobby and pretentious.

Well 1) I find it awkward and 2) I haven't been persuaded that non-binary is a thing people can be.

Someone going through a transition who's in a middle stage and does not completely know what gender they are.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm**

New haven america wrote:1. Why? It's perfectly grammatically correct.
2. The world isn't just black and white, not everything can be labeled or fit neatly into nice little groups or binaries, no matter how much you want them to.

1. Just comes out strange and forced.
2. Many things do in fact fit into neat little groups regardless of how much you'd like them to be complicated.

The South Falls wrote:Someone going through a transition who's in a middle stage and does not completely know what gender they are.

Flip a coin.

Posted: **Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:29 pm**

Lets just be like ants. Problem solved.

NationStates

On the terms "males" and "females..."