Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Heretical? How so?

It's too focused on material things

Are you talking Christianity or Buddhism?

[United Marxist Nations]

Generally a chicken egg is unfertalized, so making an omelette doesn't actually kill anything. Secondly, a human and a chicken are not equal examples, it's perfectly legal and widely considered morally fine to kill a chicken. Same cannot be said for Humans.

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

Quit coming up with excuses to justify abortion. Now you are coming dangerously close to heresy, because you are denying that it is wrong.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

Quit coming up with excuses to justify abortion. Now you are coming dangerously close to heresy, because you are denying that it is wrong.

How about we just both stop this silly discussion that at this point should be moved to the abortion thread?

[United Marxist Nations]

Quit coming up with excuses to justify abortion. Now you are coming dangerously close to heresy, because you are denying that it is wrong.

How about we just both stop this silly discussion that at this point should be moved to the abortion thread?

It doesn't belong in the abortion thread because we are discussing the religious implications of abortion. The opinion held by the Church fathers and by the Apostolic Churches is that abortion is wrong, and shouldn't be done (barring cases where the mother's life is medically endangered by the pregnancy).

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

How about we just both stop this silly discussion that at this point should be moved to the abortion thread?

It doesn't belong in the abortion thread because we are discussing the religious implications of abortion. The opinion held by the Church fathers and by the Apostolic Churches is that abortion is wrong, and shouldn't be done (barring cases where the mother's life is medically endangered by the pregnancy).

It is still about abortions and therefore, should be in the abortion thread.


For the record, that wasn't an excuse to justify abortion. It was an argument that chickens haven't built anything like white phosphorus munitions... that we know of.

But srsly, look up what they do to people if you are morbidly curious.

[United Marxist Nations]

It doesn't belong in the abortion thread because we are discussing the religious implications of abortion. The opinion held by the Church fathers and by the Apostolic Churches is that abortion is wrong, and shouldn't be done (barring cases where the mother's life is medically endangered by the pregnancy).

It is still about abortions and therefore, should be in the abortion thread.


For the record, that wasn't an excuse to justify abortion. It was an argument that chickens haven't built anything like white phosphorus munitions... that we know of.

But srsly, look up what they do to people if you are morbidly curious.

I know very well what people do to people that is horrible. After all, I have been taking a uni course on Eastern Europe in the twentieth century. Pretty morbid stuff.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

It is still about abortions and therefore, should be in the abortion thread.


For the record, that wasn't an excuse to justify abortion. It was an argument that chickens haven't built anything like white phosphorus munitions... that we know of.

But srsly, look up what they do to people if you are morbidly curious.

I know very well what people do to people that is horrible. After all, I have been taking a uni course on Eastern Europe in the twentieth century. Pretty morbid stuff.

Agreed.

How about we just agree to disagree?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Generally a chicken egg is unfertalized, so making an omelette doesn't actually kill anything. Secondly, a human and a chicken are not equal examples, it's perfectly legal and widely considered morally fine to kill a chicken. Same cannot be said for Humans.

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

A chicken is not moral, because it has no morality. Like 99.99999% of animal specials,. It goes where it goes, it does what it does, by its instinct not by moral inclination. It's an animal. That trait which by providence gives Humanity its penchant for Art, Music, Philosophy, Altruism, Philanthropy, etc,... is also the same trait that gives it blood lust, ambition, hatred, rivalry, etc etc. Morality is entirely a human affair.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

A chicken is not moral, because it has no morality. Like 99.99999% of animal specials,. It goes where it goes, it does what it does, by its instinct not by moral inclination. It's an animal. That trait which by providence gives Humanity its penchant for Art, Music, Philosophy, Altruism, Philanthropy, etc,... is also the same trait that gives it blood lust, ambition, hatred, rivalry, etc etc. Morality is entirely a human affair.

Granted. But, all i'm saying is that chickens have not committed any war crimes as of late.

[The Alma Mater]

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

A chicken is not moral, because it has no morality. Like 99.99999% of animal specials,. It goes where it goes, it does what it does, by its instinct not by moral inclination. It's an animal. That trait which by providence gives Humanity its penchant for Art, Music, Philosophy, Altruism, Philanthropy, etc,... is also the same trait that gives it blood lust, ambition, hatred, rivalry, etc etc. Morality is entirely a human affair.

What about apes, dolphins and elephants ?

[Normal Republic of the Netherlands]

If you believe in a religion, that will be the same if you believe in flying patato

[Irecker]

If you believe in a religion, that will be the same if you believe in flying patato

LOLOLOLOLOL DAE le magickskyfaire? xD

[The Blaatschapen]

If you believe in a religion, that will be the same if you believe in flying patato

*** 1 day ban for trolling ***

If you believe in a religion, that will be the same if you believe in flying patato

LOLOLOLOLOL DAE le magickskyfaire? xD

*** Warned for trolling ***

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

[Mondressa]

Being methodist, its my personal belief to take the bible literally in parts that should be taken that way. I dont think its right to think the entire bible as metaphor or just a story. What happened in the bible happened, imo. If Jesus said he was the son of God and that he was sent to save us then i believe thats true. Now of course some parts are metaphors but otherwise i think most should be taken literally. Maybe im just a unintelligent christian who doesnt know anything but thats my opinion and how i believe. Its very cool and informative to see what others think tho

[Salus Maior]

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

You tell me:

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

4 What is man that You take thought of him,
And the son of man that You care for him?

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God,
And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

7 All sheep and oxen,
And also the beasts of the field,

8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea,
Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord,
How majestic is Your name in all the earth! Psalm 8: 3-9

I think it's pretty clear who God values more. Chickens were created for the benefit of Humanity, Humanity is God's primary creation, made in His own image. I don't think I need to elaborate further how bad your theology is.

Nevermind that you're basically excusing the death of innocents because of the crimes of others.

[Mondressa]

On the topic of chickens being moral or more moral than humans: First of all humans have souls and chickens do not as far as i know. Secondly, chickens do not create hospitals for the wounded and sick, cures and medicines for the countless diseases of this world, fight to keep a loved one alive, love someone and care for them because of who they are as a person, and so much more. Of course chickens dont create governments and make war. But they do not have the ability. Just because humans have caused death and destruction does not render our entire species immoral and evil. God made man in his image, meaning he gave us many traits and emotions that other species lack. Yes animals matter and we should care for them (as God made man dominion over the earth) but chickens are not more moral than us. they have no soul or morality to begin with.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Both are god's creatures. Do both not deserve god's love?


Second, when a chicken : kills millions,creates a dystopian government, uses white phosphorus munitions and, creates a bomb cable of scorching the earth.
Let me know. Until then, chickens are the more moral species of the two.

You tell me:

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

4 What is man that You take thought of him,
And the son of man that You care for him?

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God,
And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

7 All sheep and oxen,
And also the beasts of the field,

8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea,
Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord,
How majestic is Your name in all the earth! Psalm 8: 3-9

I think it's pretty clear who God values more. Chickens were created for the benefit of Humanity, Humanity is God's primary creation, made in His own image. I don't think I need to elaborate further how bad your theology is.

Nevermind that you're basically excusing the death of innocents because of the crimes of others.

Yet humans kill each other all the time, chickens don't.

I am? I didn't know I was.

the issues around child abuse are not going to be solved with abortion, the core of the issue is in economics and issues surrounding poor living. Which can be solved.

Continuing thoughts on this:

No child = no child abuse.

No augment made so far acknowledges the fact that solving poverty is going to take decades of work.

[Diopolis]

You tell me:

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

4 What is man that You take thought of him,
And the son of man that You care for him?

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God,
And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

7 All sheep and oxen,
And also the beasts of the field,

8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea,
Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord,
How majestic is Your name in all the earth! Psalm 8: 3-9

I think it's pretty clear who God values more. Chickens were created for the benefit of Humanity, Humanity is God's primary creation, made in His own image. I don't think I need to elaborate further how bad your theology is.

Nevermind that you're basically excusing the death of innocents because of the crimes of others.

Yet humans kill each other all the time, chickens don't.

I am?

Chickens kill each other all the time. Say what you will about people, but at least we don't have to castrate our males to prevent them from killing and eating each other on sight.

[Soursis]

Roman Catholic here. Grew up in a pretty traditional setting (women sat on the left, men on the right in my parish during mass, etc). Not overly religious anymore, but I still love to learn about religion in general (I love learning. Regardless of the topic) so I'll pop in from time to time.

And hope everyone has a blessed advent!

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Yet humans kill each other all the time, chickens don't.

I am?

Chickens kill each other all the time. Say what you will about people, but at least we don't have to castrate our males to prevent them from killing and eating each other on sight.

To be fair, like I said, humans have done horrible things to each other sense the very start.

[United Marxist Nations]

Being methodist, its my personal belief to take the bible literally in parts that should be taken that way. I dont think its right to think the entire bible as metaphor or just a story. What happened in the bible happened, imo. If Jesus said he was the son of God and that he was sent to save us then i believe thats true. Now of course some parts are metaphors but otherwise i think most should be taken literally. Maybe im just a unintelligent christian who doesnt know anything but thats my opinion and how i believe. Its very cool and informative to see what others think tho

On the issue of literalism, I take the New Testament as being entirely literal. Most of the Old Testament is also literal. Genesis, I am kind of divided on. I think the events in it happened (i.e. the Fall happened), but I am not sure whether I am ready to take it entirely literally in terms of YEC.

[Diopolis]

You tell me:

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
The moon and the stars, which You have ordained;

4 What is man that You take thought of him,
And the son of man that You care for him?

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God,
And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands;
You have put all things under his feet,

7 All sheep and oxen,
And also the beasts of the field,

8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea,
Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord,
How majestic is Your name in all the earth! Psalm 8: 3-9

I think it's pretty clear who God values more. Chickens were created for the benefit of Humanity, Humanity is God's primary creation, made in His own image. I don't think I need to elaborate further how bad your theology is.

Nevermind that you're basically excusing the death of innocents because of the crimes of others.

Yet humans kill each other all the time, chickens don't.

I am? I didn't know I was.

the issues around child abuse are not going to be solved with abortion, the core of the issue is in economics and issues surrounding poor living. Which can be solved.

Continuing thoughts on this:

No child = no child abuse.

No augment made so far acknowledges the fact that solving poverty is going to take decades of work.

By your logic, we should kill everyone in poverty. It would solve poverty.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Yet humans kill each other all the time, chickens don't.

I am? I didn't know I was.


Continuing thoughts on this:

No child = no child abuse.

No augment made so far acknowledges the fact that solving poverty is going to take decades of work.

By your logic, we should kill everyone in poverty. It would solve poverty.

How did you even interrupt that from what I said?

Solving poverty has been a very very long fight battled by liberal democracies for centuries now.

Poverty is still a huge problem after all this time.

Until such time as poverty is no longer a thing, abusive homes still exist. Child quality of life will remain extremely low for those in low income families.

Until such time as poverty is solved the best economic thing for low income wed couples is to get an abortion.

By all means, we should continue being good christians and help fight poverty. Only then abortion should be debated on. Until then it should remain legal.

[Nordengrund]

Being methodist, its my personal belief to take the bible literally in parts that should be taken that way. I dont think its right to think the entire bible as metaphor or just a story. What happened in the bible happened, imo. If Jesus said he was the son of God and that he was sent to save us then i believe thats true. Now of course some parts are metaphors but otherwise i think most should be taken literally. Maybe im just a unintelligent christian who doesnt know anything but thats my opinion and how i believe. Its very cool and informative to see what others think tho

On the issue of literalism, I take the New Testament as being entirely literal. Most of the Old Testament is also literal. Genesis, I am kind of divided on. I think the events in it happened (i.e. the Fall happened), but I am not sure whether I am ready to take it entirely literally in terms of YEC.

There is Old Earth Creationism, which generally takes Genesis literally. The main difference with YEC is that they believe that the six days were eons of time (could be thousands to billions of years for each day.) They reject evolution, but otherwise hold to the current conclusions of science regarding origins, age of the earth, etc.

I myself lean towards Historical Creationism that teaches that the Creation Week is God preparing the Promised Land as the place of origin for mankind and that the Creation Week and the creation of the planet are two separate events. There's also time relative creationism where the Creation Week is six literal days, but time flowed differently back then, so a literal day could have lasted a million years back then.

[Diopolis]

By your logic, we should kill everyone in poverty. It would solve poverty.

How did you even interrupt that from what I said?

Solving poverty has been a very very long fight battled by liberal democracies for centuries now.

Poverty is still a huge problem after all this time.

Until such time as poverty is no longer a thing, abusive homes still exist. Child quality of life will remain extremely low for those in low income families.

Until such time as poverty is solved the best economic thing for low income wed couples is to get an abortion.

By all means, we should continue being good christians and help fight poverty. Only then abortion should be debated on. Until then it should remain legal.

No child= no child abuse is a pretty clear example of endorsing just killing anyone who would suffer problems. The same logic would get rid of poverty by killing all the poor people.
I'll also point out that child abuse is not unique to low-income families, at all. Some of it is just people being dickish or insane with no aggravating factors.