NationStates

OK, I do have a query for the social threads though, as Sark noted there's social and then there's social. I agree that F7's social threads tend to go way TO social for General (Not picking on F7, but what goes on there is almost a chat) and the social threads that used to be allowed in General never we allowed to get that spamish.

Where would you guys like the line drawn?

NERVUN wrote:OK, I do have a query for the social threads though, as Sark noted there's social and then there's social. I agree that F7's social threads tend to go way TO social for General (Not picking on F7, but what goes on there is almost a chat) and the social threads that used to be allowed in General never we allowed to get that spamish.

Where would you guys like the line drawn?

I think a hard line's not the way to go about it, case-by-case is, I would think, the best. Just ask, as you say in your post, "Does this sound like a forum post or a chat room?"

Dumb Ideologies wrote:I've noticed it is mostly those who have been around a while who are commenting on the lack of a social aspect. Obviously, we can partly explain this away by newer nations turning up largely after this element has drained away; you don't miss what there hasn't been while you've been here. But, keeping in mind that participation in these threads only comes from a minority of posters, we do need to ask the question if the majority even want a more social aspect to the forum.

It's my view that such threads should be community-driven rather than moderation-driven. If a humorous or social thread appears in NSG, gets only a few replies and then sinks to the bottom, that's a sign that the majority evidently doesn't want that particular social aspect. Moving such a thread to F7 immediately, however, only ensures that the community never really gets a choice.

NERVUN wrote:OK, I do have a query for the social threads though, as Sark noted there's social and then there's social. I agree that F7's social threads tend to go way TO social for General (Not picking on F7, but what goes on there is almost a chat) and the social threads that used to be allowed in General never we allowed to get that spamish.

Where would you guys like the line drawn?

Old NSG threads could get extremely F7-like, in honesty. Those who remember the days when the appearance of Parratoga/FairyTInkArisen/Fascist Dominion/The Beautiful Darkness/$popular_individual_of_the_week in a non-debate thread signaled the start of many pages of smiley spam, off-topic banter and general chat will probably concur. A ban on word games, "last person to post wins", chat threads, image threads, etc would probably work fine -- the remainder should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, erring on the side that the community will make something of it if in doubt.

Maurepas wrote:

NERVUN wrote:OK, I do have a query for the social threads though, as Sark noted there's social and then there's social. I agree that F7's social threads tend to go way TO social for General (Not picking on F7, but what goes on there is almost a chat) and the social threads that used to be allowed in General never we allowed to get that spamish.

Where would you guys like the line drawn?

I think a hard line's not the way to go about it, case-by-case is, I would think, the best. Just ask, as you say in your post, "Does this sound like a forum post or a chat room?"

Not so much a hard line, but a guideline.

I'd rather not kill off Paul to make Peter more sociable.

Perhaps, to solve the problem of NSG being too serious, you just make F7 an RP/social chat forum. Stuuf like the Bistro, the various pubs/bars/nightclubs/churches and keep the games/rate threads (who'd win in a war between you and the poster above, etc.) there, and move anything that's along the lines of 'Lol, just saw this news article' over there.

Also, agreed that the Sexiest NS'er should stay in General.

St George of England wrote:Perhaps, to solve the problem of NSG being too serious, you just make F7 an RP/social chat forum. Stuuf like the Bistro, the various pubs/bars/nightclubs/churches and keep the games/rate threads (who'd win in a war between you and the poster above, etc.) there, and move anything that's along the lines of 'Lol, just saw this news article' over there.

Also, agreed that the Sexiest NS'er should stay in General.

F7 IS a social/RP forum.... along with games....

Katganistan wrote:

St George of England wrote:Perhaps, to solve the problem of NSG being too serious, you just make F7 an RP/social chat forum. Stuuf like the Bistro, the various pubs/bars/nightclubs/churches and keep the games/rate threads (who'd win in a war between you and the poster above, etc.) there, and move anything that's along the lines of 'Lol, just saw this news article' over there.

Also, agreed that the Sexiest NS'er should stay in General.

F7 IS a social/RP forum.... along with games....

Yeah, just realized how stupid my post is.....

I have a legitimate complaint about general. It's full of assholes.

Freisharf wrote:I have a legitimate complaint about general. It's full of assholes.

Enjoy your ban, Sharf.

*** warned for flaming in moderation ***

He's lucky Kat beat me to it. I was about to ban him for a few days.

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:He's lucky Kat beat me to it. I was about to ban him for a few days.

Mods colliding?

St George of England wrote:

Lunatic Goofballs wrote:He's lucky Kat beat me to it. I was about to ban him for a few days.

Mods colliding?

Nah. More like speed-hugging.

Edit: Kat actually DID ban him. I misread her message.

I have another complaint. There's not enough tacos in NSG.

Please keep it civil and on-topic.

And BYOT.

Freisharf wrote:I have a legitimate complaint about general. It's full of assholes.

I know, obligatory ban for flaming in moderation, but he has a point. Quite a lot of us are assholes, and debate threads in particular can be quite unfriendly. Moreover, this is not simply a matter of "well, just ban them for flaming" since it is quite possible to be an asshole while remaining within the rules. Subtle, borderline remarks, jabs from the sidelines, insults and name-calling dressed up in erudite language, and incessant bitching over warnings ("WHAT? How was that actionable? I was using 'nigger' in the archaic sense of 'person with dark skin of African origin', not as a racial slur! Joe called me a potato-headed child molester from Wisconsin last week and he only got an unofficial! I wish to appeal! And to appeal the appeal!" Et cetera, et cetera). Is it too much to ask for people to have more of a sense of humour? Don't go out of your way either to be offensive or to be offended.

Fewer NSGers being assholes would also certainly improve the climate of the forum in many respects, I think, and facilitate the social threads most people seem to want reintroduced.

Saint Clair Island wrote:

NERVUN wrote:OK, I do have a query for the social threads though, as Sark noted there's social and then there's social. I agree that F7's social threads tend to go way TO social for General (Not picking on F7, but what goes on there is almost a chat) and the social threads that used to be allowed in General never we allowed to get that spamish.

Where would you guys like the line drawn?

Old NSG threads could get extremely F7-like, in honesty. Those who remember the days when the appearance of Parratoga/FairyTInkArisen/Fascist Dominion/The Beautiful Darkness/$popular_individual_of_the_week in a non-debate thread signaled the start of many pages of smiley spam, off-topic banter and general chat will probably concur. A ban on word games, "last person to post wins", chat threads, image threads, etc would probably work fine -- the remainder should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, erring on the side that the community will make something of it if in doubt.

This is about right.

If I had to come up with a single rough guideline, I think I'd say this: threads in General should be discussions. There should be potential for actual conversation about a topic. That would leave in all sorts of silly, light-hearted, and/or social topics, but chop out "say something funny about the poster above you" or "post your favorite lolcat pictures."

The Bleeding Roses wrote:Are you people honestly trying to rationalize including F7ers in NSG? F7 is the 4chan of NS, the dredges of the internet.

No thanks.

This sort of attitude makes me sad. I haven't been on NS for long, but I value the seriousness and interest of NSG, with discussions on pretty much anything, as well as some less serious, more humorous topics to keep us entertained. But then if one forum on NS has an instant, welcoming feel to it, it is F7. No other forum here really allows for new players to get involved as quickly. I'll admit that I'm not as keen on the current styles of play, and I do miss some things and people (2nd PLT, come back... Well, don't, 'cos that would be against the mod rulings, but hey...) but the beauty of F7 is that it has the pride to stay above the level of mere 4chan, or at least above the level of mere /b/, because I'm told there's more to 4chan than just /b/, by virtue of the amount of non-NS roleplay and serious intent. Perhaps, now that Her Modliness and Her church have left F7, it may be time for a new F7-centered mod, in the same way that there are mods that specialise and inhabit most other forums here, and there should be a representative of the Powers That Be somewhere to, firstly keep us out of trouble, and secondly to understand whether what we're doing really is trouble, which - yes I know, OMG no-one understands us - sometimes doesn't happen at the moment. But other than that, F7 should not be looked down on as the lesser forum.

My suggestions as to our current predicament? Well, the fun is draining out of NSG and into F7. There are a few good arguments for merging the two, but there are more against. However, could we have a trial period (I don't know how long) where nothing is allowed to move between NS and F7 except by special injunction unanimously agreed by every single UN WA member? Or whatever floats your boat, but you get the gist. No movement between NSG and F7, not even by well-intentioned mods. Nor even by request. Just let's see what that does.

Obviously, if something belongs in technical/F&NI or whatever, that should be moved. Although I reckon we're both getting quite good at dealing with n00b problems.

The Norwegian Blue wrote:I don't hate Forum 7. It's not for me, but the people who enjoy it enjoy it, and that's great. I hate that somewhere along the line, General stopped being a forum "for discussion and debate about anything" and became a forum "for discussion and debate about anything serious." I like serious threads. I just like being able to take a break from serious threads and engage the same people I was just arguing with in a pleasant conversation about how we both think Dr. House is totally sexy and Kinder eggs are delicious, and since the move and the addition of Forum 7, it seems like all the threads where that sort of pleasant social conversation can occur get yanked out of General to die ignominious and spammy deaths elsewhere, while Generalites go right on viewing each other as allies and adversaries rather than friends and acquaintances.

Excellently put.

Nadkor wrote:

The Norwegian Blue wrote:I don't hate Forum 7. It's not for me, but the people who enjoy it enjoy it, and that's great. I hate that somewhere along the line, General stopped being a forum "for discussion and debate about anything" and became a forum "for discussion and debate about anything serious." I like serious threads. I just like being able to take a break from serious threads and engage the same people I was just arguing with in a pleasant conversation about how we both think Dr. House is totally sexy and Kinder eggs are delicious, and since the move and the addition of Forum 7, it seems like all the threads where that sort of pleasant social conversation can occur get yanked out of General to die ignominious and spammy deaths elsewhere, while Generalites go right on viewing each other as allies and adversaries rather than friends and acquaintances.

Excellently put.

Whilst the bolded part is correct, TNB makes the mistake of assuming F7=spam.

No, but it really is.

Nadkor wrote:No, but it really is.

Really? So everything in F7 = spam?

NERVUN wrote:Where would you guys like the line drawn?

Not a strict line, but social doesn't mean spammy. We shouldn't suspend the rules on threadjacking or necroposting or things like that, but a little more flexibility would be nice.

Geniasis wrote:

NERVUN wrote:Where would you guys like the line drawn?

Not a strict line, but social doesn't mean spammy. We shouldn't suspend the rules on threadjacking or necroposting or things like that, but a little more flexibility would be nice.

Like I said, we are open to suggestions (Currently we're talking about it), but it's a matter of what Community A (General) would like to see and making sure it doesn't overlap too much with Community B (F7).

That's why I'm asking is to see what you guys want... Otherwise we get to decide.

NERVUN wrote:Like I said, we are open to suggestions (Currently we're talking about it), but it's a matter of what Community A (General) would like to see and making sure it doesn't overlap too much with Community B (F7).

That's why I'm asking is to see what you guys want... Otherwise we get to decide.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that you guys are seriously discussing this behind closed doors. I think that speaks more to the fact that there's been this thick level of cynicism on the subject for the longest time.

Here is my suggestion to solve the problem.

Why not bring back the April Fool's 2010 discussion zones, one for the Liberals, one for the Conservatives, to replace both General and Forum 7. One would lean to fun, while the other would lean to seriousness, since honestly, those discussion zones really replaced F7 for a day, instead of General, and if we merge them and split them, the flavor will be good. One for the mocha, one for the decaf. (mocha = Fun, decaf = seriousness).