[Report] British Politics

[Fartsniffage]

We want people to think that the number of immigrants is going down, so lets stop counting all the immigrants.

Fuck, why keep immigration statistics at all, then? Just tell people they're going down. It'd be cheaper.

Are you going to engage with my argument or just ignore it?

Would someone less privileged be prevented from speaking their own language by someone else speaking a different one?

They can speak their own language. They should also speak English. It was identified for instance that Muslim women are the least likely to be able to speak English due to patriarchal opinions keeping them repressed. They don't even have the opportunity to integrate or the chance to participate in the wider community, because among other things they are denied this fundamental requisite.

Multiculturalism has resulted in lost of trust between different communities and reduced faith in institutions.

Yes. Also, look at the distrust between the Bengali community and other communities in Tower Hamlets as a result of the client politics that got Luftur Rahmen elected and subsequently removed (because wouldn't you believe it, favouring certain ethnic interests is corruption). Had these client politics, which are acceptable in Bangaladeshi politics, been challenged and not tolerated, it wouldn't had happened.

Where a desire what? Exists?

And why shouldn't people want to protect their own cultural norms? You're threatening them. You're trying to take their way of life away from them and replace it with your own.

All I'm saying is they should integrate, unless they want to sew further mistrust and racism. If we have immigrants our coming to our country they should be thankful towards us and be accepting of the values we believe they should follow. It's not too much to ask.

Sure. You should challenge harmful ideas held by British citizens as well.

Is this insinuating I don't already do this? And why promote the sort of ideas that allow FGM to be tolerated?

And the answer is to only permit in immigrants who meet with the approval of the Tories?

Of British society, which is governed by HM's government.

"Dated" is an interesting way to describe values you disapprove of. Are British values not themselves centuries old?

Mainstream society becomes more and more modernised, so yes British values do become modernised, as opposed to Saudi ones which are stuck in the first millenia.

It's obviously useful for people living in an English speaking country to understand English, but if they prefer to speak some other language then let them at it, I say.

I disagree. They should be out the country, there's more to immigrating to this country then being 'good for the economy' and 'essential to services'. You should participate in civic life too.

Why? British people reject British values and social norms and segregate themselves, and they don't get kicked out of the country for it.

We should challenge them, but we can't get rid of them, they're citizens and they have all the entitlements associated with it. With immigrants it's different - we citizens are letting them into our country, we expect them to fulfill a number of obligations that we set. If they don't, we can kick them out of the country. It's like saying instead of deporting immigrants who commit crimes to their own country (assuming they're treated humanely), we should imprison them because they're equal to their own citizens... no they're not, they violated the terms of their visa arrangement. We don't have an obligation to keep them here. If they got a problem and want to be 'good for the economy' somewhere else, they can do that. Also a number of people with regressive, unculturally British values are themselves British citizens - this is about encouraging them to integrate too.

Incidentally, that turning people into soap thing is probably one of those values held by Britons that you should challenge.

I do.

Disagreeing with you doesn't constitute ignoring experts.

You're essentially disagreeing with years of research that has been done into this problem, which I pretty much agree with.

Or maybe he doesn't understand why someone would care what someone else wears because it can be difficult to wrap one's head around irrational views.
If a white working class person shares Iffy's opinion, does he have privilege too? Am I privileged because I can't understand why some people believe in God and palmistry and magic water medicine? If a radical Muslim doesn't understand why some people don't want to kill gays, is that a sign of his privilege? Does the failure to understand something intrinsically make you privileged? Is omniscience the only true path to not being privileged? Or did you maybe just leap to a pathetic and meaningless ad hominem?

White working class people overwhelmingly don't have this opinion, their experience means that they tend to view multiculturalism as a failed policy based on their experience of the impacts of it. If someone shared Iffy's opinion, then their view doesn't invalidate that of other people of his class. You're missing the point - he benefits from his privilege because he does not have to worry about the fact that some people don't speak their language or some people seem to oddly enough keep to themselves. Your examples are just ridiculous, because there is no social benefit from any of them or it is otherwise meaningless. There is a great social benefit to feeling secure and safe, as opposed to not feeling this.

You're also implying that 'multiculturalism is wrong' is itself objectively wrong. It's a perspective, one that is increasingly becoming a consensus within politics and within society, with plenty of evidence to support it. He's privileged enough not to live in, say, Boston, one of the most segregated settlements in the UK, where the lack of integration does cause segregation and the mistrust that goes with it. As am I - though I am aware of my privilege. The only thing that is pathetic and meaningless is you making this ridiculous argument.

My emphasis.

[Frisbeeteria]

Looks to me like an attack on the argument, using the exact words of Anywhere Else But Here that you highlighted in pretty much exactly the same way.

[Fartsniffage]

Can I ask for a second look please? I might just be me, but I'm really not reading it that way.

[Frisbeeteria]

Can I ask for a second look please?

[USS Monitor]

I'm going to go with Fris on this. The last line is a little bit confrontational, but it still looks like the purpose of the post is to argue a position rather than bullying, and the last line is meant to reject Anywhere Else But Here's argument that he was replying to.

[Fartsniffage]

Smashing. Thanks peeps;