[debate] Should Puppets Be Banned?

[East Catalina]

Fuck no.

[New Dukaine]

Banning puppets would completely kill, KILL R/D

[Shazbotdom]

Banning puppets would completely kill, KILL R/D

How would it kill R/D? If people are using puppets for Raiding, then they would be breaking the 1 nation in WA at a time rule.

[Drasnia]

Banning puppets would completely kill, KILL R/D

How would it kill R/D? If people are using puppets for Raiding, then they would be breaking the 1 nation in WA at a time rule.

For military gameplay, the player will apply for WA for their military puppets, then accept to one. The go to the region, do their thing, then after it has updated, resign, then rinse and repeat with their next puppet until update is over.

[New Dukaine]

Banning puppets would completely kill, KILL R/D

How would it kill R/D? If people are using puppets for Raiding, then they would be breaking the 1 nation in WA at a time rule.

You resign your main nation first silly.



I wouldn't want to raid or defend with 1 nation, I would like about a couple of switchers

[Thermodolia]

Recently, I came across two threads (https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p29021602 and https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p29172920), both of which highlight the region Penglai. Of course, this region seems like any other, except for one thing: all 2,829 of its residents are puppets. Ironically, the region ranks in the top ten population wise, and has a ranking of "high" regional power. Puppet usage is commonplace throughout the site, but should it be banned? Or should the moderators just limit the number of nations may have?

So NS, what do you think?

My Answer

[WA Kitty Kops]

Posting on one of my two puppets (see forum siggy for main acc) to make the point better; I originally created both of my puppets as joke nations for GA forum, and then thought "eh, why not keep them for fun RP?" and came up with proper IC realities for each of them. I tend to only use them in GA, since that's where I RP most of the time.

If there really was a total puppet ban for some reason, I'd actually most likely abandon my main and make my other puppet (which is my WA nation) my only account, since its IC reality is much more interesting than that of my main nation.

But if such a silly thing was exacted on every player who's ever had any other nation under their control, I'd lose all 3 of mine, because I had a nation here before, it CTE'd in 2005 and I later lost the password (and that was before email attachment was required, so I didn't have one attached and so can't recover the pass) for it. That's why I created my current main in the first place.

I don't have or want to have anything to do with the raiding game, so I don't have anything to say about that, and I try my best not to "puppetwank" in GA threads - all my accs are connected in-character, but they have different aims and I RP them as such.

I dislike undeclared puppets - ones without the main nation named in forum siggy or nation name, especially when it's a painfully obvious puppet account - because of trust issues caused years ago by an ex-friend. At least NS is an environment with better moderation (both in terms of the Mods being more active and them having better tools at hand).

Anyway, before I ramble on much longer, I'll just add my agreement to what people have already said about using your puppets to test issue results; with 3 accounts, I can try out all sorts of things, and can only imagine what someone can do with 20 of them!

[USS Monitor]

You can't ban puppets! How would I infect the forums with -Ebola- if I didn't have puppets?

[Gigaverse]

I'm a personal acquaintance of Parhe, so I can guarantee, this is not damaging in any way whatsoever - and not our problem to begin with.

[Royal Denmark]

I thought this was about marionettes. I'll see myself at the door.

[Qandaristania]

*75% of NS suddenly disappears*

[Maljaratas]

Recently, I came across two threads (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=380793&p=29021602&hilit=Penglai#p29021602 and viewtopic.php?f=24&t=382093&p=29172920&hilit=penglai#p29172920), both of which highlight the region Penglai. Of course, this region seems like any other, except for one thing: all 2,829 of its residents are puppets. Ironically, the region ranks in the top ten population wise, and has a ranking of "high" regional power. Puppet usage is commonplace throughout the site, but should it be banned? Or should the moderators just limit the number of nations may have?

So NS, what do you think?

Short answer: No
Long Answer: I see no reason why, and the rules that Mouse highlighted I believe should stay as they are. Further, how would one expect to enforce such a rule, particularly on such people as myself who have a decent amount of puppets, but never use them for anything except the name?

[Syadei]

To ban puppets would be ridiculous. And the NS Staff would find it nearly impossible to continue to enforce the ban.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

While I'm against banning puppets altogether, there is something I've wondered. If we don't allow puppets to get around a forum ban or even an OP enforced threadban, how come raiders can enter regions with another puppet after their original one is banned?

[The Archregimancy]

So NS, what do you think?

[Frenline Delpha]

So NS, what do you think?

And to the OP: No. I like my puppets.

[Europe and Oceania]

General modnote: We don't have a database, and we don't have any easy way to track how many puppets are owned by [player]. Even if the collective opinion is that "puppets should be banned/limited" the actual enforcement of such a hypothetical ban is likely to be beyond the current mod tools.

They should create a database to track all of them. I support the idea of NationStates having its own NSA.

[We Are Not the NSA]

General modnote: We don't have a database, and we don't have any easy way to track how many puppets are owned by [player]. Even if the collective opinion is that "puppets should be banned/limited" the actual enforcement of such a hypothetical ban is likely to be beyond the current mod tools.

They should create a database to track all of them. I support the idea of NationStates having its own NSA.

I don't. And I say that as both a serious response to the first sentence and as a joke about the second. Creating a puppet database would be an immense waste of time, since in the past 2 pages of debate we have yet to hear an actual reason that puppets need to monitored. If a player isn't breaking site rules, moderation has no reason to care which nations are his/her puppets. If they are breaking site rules, it would be reported, and moderation would just do what they normally do. Having a database offers no advantage to the moderation team's effectiveness.

[Europe and Oceania]

They should create a database to track all of them. I support the idea of NationStates having its own NSA.

I don't. And I say that as both a serious response to the first sentence and as a joke about the second. Creating a puppet database would be an immense waste of time, since in the past 2 pages of debate we have yet to hear an actual reason that puppets need to monitored. If a player isn't breaking site rules, moderation has no reason to care which nations are his/her puppets. If they are breaking site rules, it would be reported, and moderation would just do what they normally do. Having a database offers no advantage to the moderation team's effectiveness.

You could be in charge of the NS-NSA lol. Think about it, it would be cool.

[Drasnia]

I don't. And I say that as both a serious response to the first sentence and as a joke about the second. Creating a puppet database would be an immense waste of time, since in the past 2 pages of debate we have yet to hear an actual reason that puppets need to monitored. If a player isn't breaking site rules, moderation has no reason to care which nations are his/her puppets. If they are breaking site rules, it would be reported, and moderation would just do what they normally do. Having a database offers no advantage to the moderation team's effectiveness.

You could be in charge of the NS-NSA lol. Think about it, it would be cool.

His point still stands. What would a database or outright ban of puppets accomplish? This isn't a problem as I see it.

[Polosnia]

Well, no, because for example, I'm going to need a puppet for my RP in which a faction of far-right terrorists attempt to create their own country through force.

[Europe and Oceania]

You could be in charge of the NS-NSA lol. Think about it, it would be cool.

His point still stands. What would a database or outright ban of puppets accomplish? This isn't a problem as I see it.

I don't support banning puppets. I like the idea of a database for more organization and efficiency.

Problem is, Max doesn't spend enough money on NS to make it even better than it is.

You see sites like GameFAQs and that leaves NS behind when it comes to their staff members and organization. I also like their style of modding like deleting messages when people violate the rules like :"This message has been deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator".

They just seem to be more professional in my opinion.

[Drasnia]

His point still stands. What would a database or outright ban of puppets accomplish? This isn't a problem as I see it.

I don't support banning puppets. I like the idea of a database for more organization and efficiency.

Problem is, Max doesn't spend enough money on NS to make it even better than it is.

Except that a database does absolutely nothing. The mods can detect 99.9+% puppets anyway, and quite easily, so that would be a hassle for absolutely no benefit.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

As I'm sure others have pointed out, it would kill the lovely portion of the game that has developed over time, that we lovingly refer to as Gameplay. It would also inconvenience those of us who like to rp as different nations, in different scenarios or timelines or groups. So ... how about no.

[Byzanthia]

As I'm sure others have pointed out, it would kill the lovely portion of the game that has developed over time, that we lovingly refer to as Gameplay. It would also inconvenience those of us who like to rp as different nations, in different scenarios or timelines or groups. So ... how about no.

I do have an RP puppet, so I would be sad to see the site ban puppets for that reason. To simply put it, puppet-making has been an almost vital part of gameplay for over a decade now. Of course, the moderators could have banned the use of multiple nations right from the start, like Cyber Nations did, but they did not. This, in turn, created a very unique and fascinating community. Without puppets, raiding would've never existed. I myself do not like raiders, and I would very much like it of they would stop making puppets to aid in their taking over of innocent regions. However, one must also realize that puppets also serve a good purpose as well, like rp. If we banned puppets all together, the gameplay and roleplay that we all know and love would be drastically altered (plus, we'd see over half of the NS population magically disappear).