[debate] Should Puppets Be Banned?

[Byzanthia]

Recently, I came across two threads (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=380793&p=29021602&hilit=Penglai#p29021602 and viewtopic.php?f=24&t=382093&p=29172920&hilit=penglai#p29172920), both of which highlight the region Penglai. Of course, this region seems like any other, except for one thing: all 2,829 of its residents are puppets. Ironically, the region ranks in the top ten population wise, and has a ranking of "high" regional power. Puppet usage is commonplace throughout the site, but should it be banned? Or should the moderators just limit the number of nations may have?

So NS, what do you think?

[The first Galactic Republic]

Why should it be banned? You didn't even give a reason. You just talked about a region with lots of puppets.

[Byzanthia]

Why should it be banned? You didn't even give a reason. You just talked about a region with lots of puppets.

Well, I leave the community to make up that decision. I have heard of nations having multiple puppets, never one that had over a thousand. The real question should be: when is enough enough? Should nations be allowed to make hundreds of nations at a time?

[Hetrica]

Why should it be banned? You didn't even give a reason. You just talked about a region with lots of puppets.

Well, I leave the community to make up that decision. I have heard of nations having multiple puppets, never one that had over a thousand. The real question should be: when is enough enough? Should nations be allowed to make hundreds of nations at a time?

I say that nations should have puppets, it makes gameplay more fun. I Rp Hetrica and all its puppets and it is really fun

[Drawkland]

Should puppets as a whole be banned? No. Nations use them for any reason you could imagine, multiple RP opportunities, be exposed to new issues, test issue results, maintain a network of regions to make a record embassy chain, the R/D game, and a multitude of other reasons. Not only would it be nearly impossible, but it's silly to ban puppets as a whole.

Also, why should it matter if there's a massive puppet storage region with "High" regional power? How does that affect anyone?

[Byzanthia]

I am kind of neutral on this issue. I myself have a couple of puppets, but I get a little concerned when nations start churning out puppets every couple of days. I mean, look at the raiders. Their puppets probably compromise a good portion of the nations on NS. There are thousands of nations on this site, but that is only because of puppets. The real numbers would be probably a lot lower. However, puppets can used to defend and protect nations, and they make create resources for role plays and people who want to start a "clean slate" after destroying their old nations,

[Barboneia]

This should probably go in Moderation.

Also no.

[The Federation of Kendor]

I am kind of neutral on this issue. I myself have a couple of puppets, but I get a little concerned when nations start churning out puppets every couple of days. I mean, look at the raiders. Their puppets probably compromise a good portion of the nations on NS. There are thousands of nations on this site, but that is only because of puppets. The real numbers would be probably a lot lower.

I also have a lot of puppets but i use them for RP reason and sometimes testing issue results

[Arumdaum]

Parhe has a lot of puppets. So what?

[Distantiality]

No. Gameplay users need them.

[Byzanthia]

This thread has been moved to moderation:


viewtopic.php?f=16&t=382098

[Gandoor]

You'll take my puppets from my cold, dead hands.

[Seriously though, no. The only thing that should be, and already is, against the rules in regards to puppets is puppet flooding regions and trying to use puppets to break forum rules]

[Deramen]

This thread has been moved to moderation:


viewtopic.php?f=16&t=382098

This thread was moved to Moderation already.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Recently, I came across two threads (https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p29021602 and https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p29172920), both of which highlight the region Penglai. Of course, this region seems like any other, except for one thing: all 2,829 of its residents are puppets. Ironically, the region ranks in the top ten population wise, and has a ranking of "high" regional power. Puppet usage is commonplace throughout the site, but should it be banned? Or should the moderators just limit the number of nations may have?

So NS, what do you think?

My honest opinion is a strong "No", but my response when I decide to patronize the argument is a strong "Why?"

[Ranko Kanzaki]

I think they should. And what's more, in order to head off the threat caused by those who make puppets, I believe it should be an ex-post-facto rule, with all people who ever controlled more than one nation being made immediately DoS.

Only then can NS be a fair and fun place for all to enjoy.

[Hetrica]

I think they should. And what's more, in order to head off the threat caused by those who make puppets, I believe it should be an ex-post-facto rule, with all people who ever controlled more than one nation being made immediately DoS.

Only then can NS be a fair and fun place for all to enjoy.

I disagree, NS is more fun with puppets

[Victorious Decepticons]

I think they should. And what's more, in order to head off the threat caused by those who make puppets, I believe it should be an ex-post-facto rule, with all people who ever controlled more than one nation being made immediately DoS.

Only then can NS be a fair and fun place for all to enjoy.

I hope this is satire. If not...worst NS-related idea ever. Especially since I made quite a few nations before coming up with one that I really liked.

[United Dependencies]

Banned from what exactly?

[Cerillium]

Recently, I came across two threads (https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p29021602 and https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p29172920), both of which highlight the region Penglai. Of course, this region seems like any other, except for one thing: all 2,829 of its residents are puppets. Ironically, the region ranks in the top ten population wise, and has a ranking of "high" regional power. Puppet usage is commonplace throughout the site, but should it be banned? Or should the moderators just limit the number of nations may have?

So NS, what do you think?

It's not practical to ban them. Many who use NS see their nation as an extension of themselves when they debate on the forums thus they don't feel the need to create puppets. Gameplayers use the puppets for R/D, a legal activity on NS. Roleplayers use puppets to set up RP organizations. Still others create new nations to reflect specific technology levels, current interests in specific or borrowed genre, or to give themselves a bit of variety regarding issues or setup. To my knowledge, there are no rules barring anyone from setting up a puppet storage region. I could be wrong on that.

Puppets have been used to harass others. However, the majority of NS users don't violate any rules when logged in to their puppet accounts. I see no sense in banning puppet creation or any good reason to limit the amount of puppets one possesses. You would have a tough time enforcing limitations for those nations using a common IP or computer (school regions and families come to mind here).

[Wallenburg]

Of course not.

[Mousebumples]

General modnote: We don't have a database, and we don't have any easy way to track how many puppets are owned by [player]. Even if the collective opinion is that "puppets should be banned/limited" the actual enforcement of such a hypothetical ban is likely to be beyond the current mod tools.

Not saying that this discussion can't or shouldn't happen, but this conversation may be more effective if it focuses more on the current puppet-related rules:
-Puppetwanking (i.e. using your multiple nations in a thread/debate to support your side of the debate, for example)
-NS Sports Puppet rules
-Evading a ban (RMB ban, forum ban, or a blocked sender on TG)
-Puppetflooding (alluded to above)
-WA Multi-ing

What are the limitations of our current rules? Should they be expanded further or curtailed in some fashion?

Just my two cents, anyhow.

[Ilyseum]

I could see a case for extending the applicability of the NS Sports puppet rules (which permit the NS Sports equivalent of a thread OP to limit the number of nations that can be entered in an event by the same person and get assistance from moderation in enforcing these limits) to other RP sub-forums, but other than that I don't see much that needs to be changed in terms of how moderation treats puppets.

I don't see the need to ban somebody from creating thousands of puppets and putting them in a region unless their doing so causes server problems or they're using illegal scripts to create puppets. I think most people can tell the difference between a large region and a large puppet storage region, so the puppet storage region won't have the activity or the prestige that usually go with having a big region. Its a problem that more or less solves itself because there just aren't many people with the time or desire to create thousands of puppets just for the sake of having one of the biggest regions in NS.

[Indian Empire]

I wouldn't support removing all puppets entirely as that would eliminate the R/D game. I would support limiting the number of nations that a person can have to a number... say around 100?

I'm sure some tech geek would find a way around the limit though.So NS would have to ban all the ways around the limit to make any limit feasible.

[Singaporean Transhumans]

I think they should. And what's more, in order to head off the threat caused by those who make puppets, I believe it should be an ex-post-facto rule, with all people who ever controlled more than one nation being made immediately DoS.

Only then can NS be a fair and fun place for all to enjoy.

I disagree, NS is more fun with puppets

Obvious satire is obvious

[Hetrica]

I disagree, NS is more fun with puppets

Obvious satire is obvious

And?