[REPORT] Holocaust Denialism

[Guy]

and outside Britain, Rotterdam, Stalingrad, Warsaw, Leningrad etc

Over 70 million people died in the War, both sides did terrible thing but the vast majority were committed by the Axis and it is entirely incomprehensible to say the Allies were as bad as the Axis. Yes the Red Army treated German prisoners horrendously, the bombing of Dresden was useless and horrific but compared to the Holocaust and Nazi crimes? No comparison.

Here comes 'muh Holocaust TM' again...
What was it 6 million or 11 million for you? Even though official figures have reduced it to around 1,500,000 in general and still going down...

In line with the Terms & Conditions of this website, the Moderator team must make reasonable efforts to remove this material.

[Wrapper]

Already ruled not actionable.

[Guy]

Already ruled not actionable.

Second opinion, then.

The Terms & Conditions of the website state:

You understand that while reasonable efforts will be exerted to ensure the site remains free from offensive and illegal content, the site administrator(s) and/or moderator(s) cannot control what other people upload. ...

Any claim relating to this web site shall be governed by the laws of the State of Victoria, Australia without regard to its conflict of law provisions.

It is well-known that the laws of Australia prohibit the publication of material that denies the Holocaust. As such, reasonable efforts must be made, under the T&Cs, to remove Holocaust-denying material. At the very least, this means that such material must not be condoned under site rules.

[Wrapper]

I don't see how disputing the number who were killed is equivalent to Holocaust denial. Nevertheless, since I know nothing about this "well-known" Australian law, I've raised a flag for a second opinion. Please stand by.

[Guy]

For reference, Toben v Jones, a decision of the Full Bench of the Federal Court, held that the publication of material which carries the imputation that "there is serious doubt that the Holocaust occurred" is unlawful under s 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act.

Relevantly to your other point, at [66], it was held that "Even if it does not amount to a complete denial of the Holocaust, it is more than likely to offend and insult many Jewish people."

Granted, the exact lawfulness of the material will vary depending on the material itself (e.g. as whether it is likely to cause offence is one of the elements), but in the vast majority of cases all elements will be satisfied for material denying the Holocaust (in whole or in part). I'm happy to go through all the elements for finding material unlawful under s 18C and how it applies every time there is a Holocaust-denying post, but a blanket ban seems far more practical.

[Sedgistan]

All that section of the Terms says is that if you use this website, and decide to sue it, you agree to do so in the State of Victoria, Australia. Nothing more.

[Guy]

Sure. And that would potentially open the publisher of the website for 18C complaints.

If you forum-shop, you also better stick to that forum when you say that you'll remove 'illegal' stuff -- what is 'illegal' surely is in relation to the forum that you've picked, not any other forum.

[John Turner]

All that section of the Terms says is that if you use this website, and decide to sue it, you agree to do so in the State of Victoria, Australia. Nothing more.

People seem to be forgetting that the NationStates server is located in Canada, and holocaust denial is prosecuted as a hate crime in Canada. Given that fact, and the fact that the Crimial Code of Canada also applies to all of Canada including cyber realms, this could potentially be a problem.

Just a heads up.

[Kryozerkia]

All that section of the Terms says is that if you use this website, and decide to sue it, you agree to do so in the State of Victoria, Australia. Nothing more.

People seem to be forgetting that the NationStates server is located in Canada, and holocaust denial is prosecuted as a hate crime in Canada. Given that fact, and the fact that the Crimial Code of Canada also applies to all of Canada including cyber realms, this could potentially be a problem.

Just a heads up.

It can be prosecuted as hate speech or a hate crime, but not explicitly as holocaust denial. It does have to meet some criteria. For reference, sections 318-320 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

[John Turner]

People seem to be forgetting that the NationStates server is located in Canada, and holocaust denial is prosecuted as a hate crime in Canada. Given that fact, and the fact that the Crimial Code of Canada also applies to all of Canada including cyber realms, this could potentially be a problem.

Just a heads up.

It can be prosecuted as hate speech or a hate crime, but not explicitly as holocaust denial. It does have to meet some criteria. For reference, sections 318-320 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

Depends on how the Crown wants to proceed Kryo. I am (or was until the government shit the bed) in law enforcement. Now given the fact that this is rarely, if ever prosecuted in Canada I am not overly worried about it, but seeing as how "free speech" isn't as much of a guaranteed right in Canada as it is in say the U.S. or Australia why tickle the dragons tail here? The fact is Holocaust deniers are one of the lowest common denominators that exist, and NS should not allow Holocaust denial.

[Gregoryisgodistan]

Well, if we're going to turn this into a discussion, we should probably flag this as a discussion thread rather than a report thread, but seeing as there's really no need to create a second thread to discuss what's being discussed here anyway, I'll post here.

A lot of things are illegal in some places. If we ban everything that's illegal someplace, especially if we include countries with less free speech than the US, we'll be banning a lot of things. Heck, my flag could be considered blasphemy in certain Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, and potentially get me executed if I posted it while in that country. Yet it's allowed, because it's perfectly legal in the vast majority of countries. And I'm quite sure Holocaust denial isn't a capital crime anywhere.

[Farnhamia]

Well, if we're going to turn this into a discussion, we should probably flag this as a discussion thread rather than a report thread, but seeing as there's really no need to create a second thread to discuss what's being discussed here anyway, I'll post here.

A lot of things are illegal in some places. If we ban everything that's illegal someplace, especially if we include countries with less free speech than the US, we'll be banning a lot of things. Heck, my flag could be considered blasphemy in certain Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, and potentially get me executed if I posted it while in that country. Yet it's allowed, because it's perfectly legal in the vast majority of countries. And I'm quite sure Holocaust denial isn't a capital crime anywhere.

Hey, you're right, this is a report thread! We've had the requested Second Opinion, so we're locked.