[Discussion] Moderation team criticism.

[RiderSyl]

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=368174&p=27694432#p27694432

[NOTE: This discussion was created and the topic was linked when the thread was just a locked topic with players reacting negatively to Sedgistan's ruling. The point of this discussion is not to argue any case, but to provide a place for players to level the impending criticism without threadjacking anywhere else. Thank you.]

Admin really needs to look into what's going on here lately.
There are many players right now that are frustrated with the way moderation has been handling cases in general, some recent rulings only being proverbial "straws that broke the camels' backs". Since this was initially spilling into Gameplay and was declared a threadjack, and there's nowhere for this dissatisfaction to be expressed, consider this the place to go. Just, players, don't focus on individual cases and more on what's overall wrong with moderation policy in your opinion.

This is not an appeal thread, let's not make it one and get it locked and restart the vicious cycle.

Changed from an appeal to a discussion because it turned into one on its own and we might as well avoid a bunch of spamming moderation warnings.

[Mallorea and Riva]

It's locked because I'm dishing out punishment and don't feel like people posting around me while I do it.

[Cormac Stark]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=368174&p=27694432#p27694432

This thread just got locked because a moderator's ruling wasn't popular.
Admin really needs to look into what's going on here lately.

A thousand times this. I'll be sending an e-mail to Max later to please look deeper into how Moderation has been behaving lately, because this has all gotten ridiculous. You can't just censor criticism of Moderation. Players -- many of whom are now paying players -- should be heard about the way moderation of this site is handled. We make the site what it is, not moderators.

[Mallorea and Riva]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=368174&p=27694432#p27694432

This thread just got locked because a moderator's ruling wasn't popular.
Admin really needs to look into what's going on here lately.

A thousand times this. I'll be sending an e-mail to Max later to please look deeper into how Moderation has been behaving lately, because this has all gotten ridiculous. You can't just censor criticism of Moderation. Players -- many of whom are now paying players -- should be heard about the way moderation of this site is handled. We make the site what it is, not moderators.

If you have a complaint against the Staff then please file a GHR with the relevant details. That's the protocol for this type of thing.

[RiderSyl]

Dishing out punishment towards the mod criticism?

Man, this is really not going to turn out good for anyone.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

A thousand times this. I'll be sending an e-mail to Max later to please look deeper into how Moderation has been behaving lately, because this has all gotten ridiculous. You can't just censor criticism of Moderation. Players -- many of whom are now paying players -- should be heard about the way moderation of this site is handled. We make the site what it is, not moderators.

If you have a complaint against the Staff then please file a GHR with the relevant details. That's the protocol for this type of thing.

If the problem is with the moderators, why would you send a complaint, to the moderators? That doesn't make sense. What would stop a moderator from disregarding the GHR?

[Mallorea and Riva]

If you have a complaint against the Staff then please file a GHR with the relevant details. That's the protocol for this type of thing.

If the problem is with the moderators, why would you send a complaint, to the moderators? That doesn't make sense. What would stop a moderator from disregarding the GHR?

Because a GHR cannot be deleted or altered so it provides a perfect record of the complaint and can be viewed by the higher ups.

Dishing out punishment towards the mod criticism?

Man, this is really not going to turn out good for anyone.

No, punishment for threadjacking. Moderation was not the topic of that thread.

[Lockdownn]

If you have a complaint against the Staff then please file a GHR with the relevant details. That's the protocol for this type of thing.

If the problem is with the moderators, why would you send a complaint, to the moderators? That doesn't make sense. What would stop a moderator from disregarding the GHR?

As far as I'm aware, and due to mod posts prior, a mod cannot really delete a GHR. And I'll assume that Admin has any and all capabilities of looking into it as it's sent to Site Staff.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

Because a GHR cannot be deleted or altered so it provides a perfect record of the complaint and can be viewed by the higher ups.

Okay, but can't it also be ignored?

[Ambroscus Koth]

Ah yes, post it in Moderation, and wait for it to get locked for whatever weird reason the mods have. Flawless.

[RiderSyl]

Dishing out punishment towards the mod criticism?

Man, this is really not going to turn out good for anyone.

No, punishment for threadjacking. Moderation was not the topic of that thread.

Negative reaction to a moderator's ruling that was made in the thread gets another ruling for not staying on topic?
What a clusterfuck.

[Mallorea and Riva]

For the record if another mod would like to look at the thread and determine whether it should stay locked they are welcome to, I was the one who locked it and I'm assuming the OP would like to press their appeal.

Because a GHR cannot be deleted or altered so it provides a perfect record of the complaint and can be viewed by the higher ups.

Okay, but can't it also be ignored?

By who? The entire staff? The higher ups?

No, punishment for threadjacking. Moderation was not the topic of that thread.

Negative reaction to a moderator's ruling that was made in the thread gets another ruling for not staying on topic?
What a clusterfuck.

If you want an appeal, you know the way. In my view you were clearly threadjacking, as was Cormac. The topic of the thread was NOT Moderation, it was Unibot's essay.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

Negative reaction to a moderator's ruling that was made in the thread gets another ruling for not staying on topic?
What a clusterfuck.

Right. How can it be threadjacking if it was relevant to the topic?

[Ambroscus Koth]

Even so, in what universe did threadjacking become a 3 day ban though, even with recent context?

[Mallorea and Riva]

Even so, in what universe did threadjacking become a 3 day ban though, even with recent context?

Based on Cormac's history it seemed appropriate, and if he would like to appeal he knows the way.

[Cormactopia]

Ah yes, post it in Moderation, and wait for it to get locked for whatever weird reason the mods have. Flawless.

This. There wouldn't be any threadjacking for me to get forum banned for, if moderators weren't busy locking threads where they belong, here in Moderation, to discuss Moderation policy. You are trying to silence criticism of Moderation and insisting that it be undertaken by GHR, because you don't want to deal with a potential groundswell of popular opposition to the recent corrupt and capricious behavior. GHRs are quiet. This is loud.

And no, I will not be respecting a bullshit forum ban for threadjacking, which was a way excessive punishment. It's threadjacking. It's literally just off-topic posting. I have never seen anyone forum banned for that. It was an excessive reaction to shut me up and maintain order, but I can assure you I will not shut up and order won't be maintained because I and many other players are damn tired of being treated like dirt by Moderation and your biased, corrupt decisions. Consider this that "escalation" you talked about, Mall, and do what you need to do.

[RiderSyl]

If you want an appeal, you know the way. In my view you were clearly threadjacking, as was Cormac. The topic of the thread was NOT Moderation, it was Unibot's essay.

Unfortunately, moderators are now judging whether appeals are warranted or not in the first place while they handle said appeals, so it's hard to have faith in appeals as a user now.

[Frisbeeteria]

in what universe did threadjacking become a 3 day ban

Our typical progression of warnings is:

Unofficial warning
Warning
One day ban
Three day ban
Seven day ban
Deletion

This applies to the player, not the nation. Cormac has an extensive warning history just with that nation, and probably (I didn't delve deeply, but memory suggests ...) has other nations with similar histories.

The three day ban is NOT just for threadjacking. It is for continued offences.

And no, I will not be respecting a bullshit forum ban for threadjacking

Well, you've just cost yourself two nations for ban violation. If you keep posting with other nations for the next three days, and you'll lose them too. I don't care if you respect the decision, but you will observe the decision.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

in what universe did threadjacking become a 3 day ban

Our typical progression of warnings is:

Unofficial warning
Warning
One day ban
Three day ban
Seven day ban
Deletion

This applies to the player, not the nation. Cormac has an extensive warning history just with that nation, and probably (I didn't delve deeply, but memory suggests ...) has other nations with similar histories.

This makes a lot of things easier to understand now. But, when did he get past the seven day ban? I thought Cormac just got a three day ban...

[RiderSyl]

This is turning out about as poorly as I suspected.

[Lockdownn]

Our typical progression of warnings is:

Unofficial warning
Warning
One day ban
Three day ban
Seven day ban
Deletion

This applies to the player, not the nation. Cormac has an extensive warning history just with that nation, and probably (I didn't delve deeply, but memory suggests ...) has other nations with similar histories.

This makes a lot of things easier to understand now. But, when did he get past the seven day ban? I thought Cormac just got a three day ban...

He posted past ban which usually gets both nations deleted.

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

This makes a lot of things easier to understand now. But, when did he get past the seven day ban? I thought Cormac just got a three day ban...

He posted past ban which usually gets both nations deleted.

Thank you for that clarification.

[Enfaru]

Could the people who don't like NS or how NS Staff conduct business, please leave or at least stay off the NS forums? Would make the place much nicer.

This is the third thread dancing around the same topic. Various mods of various levels have answered and it isn't likely that they'll be changing their minds.

The Moderators of Nationstates are human beings, certain mods more pesky than others, but they are human beings and there is no "Freedom of Speech" on Nationstates, as Max Barry once said: "This is a dictatorship" implying that the admins and moderators are his loyal minions keeping the site clean and tidy. They don't have to tolerate freedom of speech and they don't *really* have to give a reason for banning someone. Would be nice if they just said, "We don't much like you or how you interact with others on the site, go away." (Incoming dos for me by that method), but they don't instead they're polite. They give feedback on their decisions and generally they're fair minded. At least. Most of them are... most of the time.

If the threads are being locked, repeatedly, you should take a look at how the thread is being managed, how the discussion is progressing. Is it actually going anywhere, is it saying stuff that really matters or is it just petty bickering? Continuing to post threads that are being locked simply by calling them something different but in essence being the same thing, is just going to lead to a DOS and I'm pretty sure no one here wants to be DOS.

Someone got butthurt from being warned/banned, grow a pair and deal with like a rational human being with an ounce of self respect. Take a look at what you did wrong, learn that it isn't acceptable in this community, don't do it again, have a long and prosperous modless enjoyment of Nationstates. Mods don't bother you if you don't break the rules...repeatedly.

[Caelapes]

If you want an appeal, you know the way. In my view you were clearly threadjacking, as was Cormac. The topic of the thread was NOT Moderation, it was Unibot's essay.

Unfortunately, moderators are now judging whether appeals are warranted or not in the first place while they handle said appeals, so it's hard to have faith in appeals as a user now.

Yup. I was told when I appealed my warning for "malicious reporting" when someone triple-posted on my region's RMB (literally a textbook example of "Regional Message Board spam" per the OSRS) that the warning stood even though the "appeal was acknowledged."

[The Type 49 TARDIS]

Someone got butthurt from being warned/banned, grow a pair and deal with like a rational human being with an ounce of self respect. Take a look at what you did wrong, learn that it isn't acceptable in this community, don't do it again, have a long and prosperous modless enjoyment of Nationstates. Mods don't bother you if you don't break the rules...repeatedly.

The warn/ban didn't make any sense. That's why. Tim made a comment towards Unibot, and the mods were over-reactive. They warned him for threadjacking, flaimbaiting, etc. None of it made sense, because it was all on topic.