NationStates

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:24 am**

Excuse me NS mods,

If I think all LGBT's are 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash', that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point. I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

If I hate anything - I'll say it, what can you do about it? NOTHING! Just because you are a moderator does not give you the god given right to control someones opinion. So your trying to say I don't have the basic right to come on a FREE, GLOBAL internet and speak my mind? What is this, NORTH KOREA?

So in conclusion...

If I think LGBT's are sick, I will gladly say it knowing that is my opinion and I am human and I have the basic rights to have an opinion.

This is open for discussion, good day.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:35 am**

You seem to think there's some kind of freedom of speech here. You're mistaken. There is no right to Freedom of Speech on these forums. You either express views that are within the rules and are not trolling/flaming or you find somewhere else to play (by choice or by the mods banning you from this site).

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:50 am**

This is open for discussion, good day.

you really need to find a way to say it without calling them delusional ill sick dogs. you technically don't have the right to an opinion on a privately owned forum, but they'll still gernally let you express your opinion if you can do it in a reasonable fashion that doesn't seem like it's there to deliberately incite people. (i.e. delusional ill sick dogs)

one of the admins got warned for calling holocaust deniers idiots (i.e. hating on nazis) and saying stuff like all nazi posters should be killed is actually against the rules, just for reference.

there are people that think being gay is immoral. some of them manage to express their opinions fine. some people think that pinochet was a cool dude and stalin really did nothing wrong. they also manage to express their opinions. (and not just because of some left-wing bias conspiracy, which i am 99% sure will be your next post). the mods are not perfect, there are some serious problems. (and i'm not shining paladin of moderation either) but the majority of these posts come from people that don't actually understand what free speech is and what rights they actually have (like i said before, you actually have 0 authority to express your point) and don't have the ability or will to acclimate to how the forums work.

notice how the guy that said "Churches should stop trying to appeal to youth, women, gays, whatever. That doesn't work. Only following the guidelines set by Christ will work in filling souls and pews." didn't get warned but the guy that said "all gays are sick" did? of course, i am not a moderator, so it actually is possible that saying being gay is a mental illness/they are insane is against the rules always, which i''m sorry to say i can't really cry any tears over.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:09 am**

Alyakia wrote:one of the admins got warned for calling holocaust deniers idiots (i.e. hating on nazis) and saying stuff like all nazi posters should be killed is actually against the rules, just for reference.

Wait what!? Where? That's hilarious. What are they going to do ban themselves?

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:20 am**

I guess that's up to the mods, but from my experiences, and from the hall of Mod Rulings, there's nothing wrong inheretly with hating LGBTs.

However, how you worded it, as in this:

'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash'

Constitutes as Trolling, as per say in the OSRS

So your trying to say I don't have the basic right to come on a FREE, GLOBAL internet and speak my mind?

Your pre-concieved notion of free-speech is duly noted by the FAQ under Etiquette, or as they call it on the bar, "Help".

that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044

I'll note to the mods that I have not done anything that constitutes as spamming, and that I have thoroughly provided relevant links. I don't wish to say that the mods are bad or anything, I just wish to note so I have more of a better chance of not being warned for spamming in moderation.

What is this, NORTH KOREA?

*Nationstates

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:32 am**

Enfaru wrote:Wait what!? Where? That's hilarious. What are they going to do ban themselves?

See: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... 2#p9230172

Technically speaking Max could block or delete the [Violet] account (it's not a nation, and thus cannot be DEATed or moderated the way nations can be), but admittedly that's very unlikely to happen. But not impossible.

So far the responses I'm seeing are great! The OP indeed has no 'free speech' on websites privately owned by others. The WA resolution referred to doesn't apply to moderation affairs. People do get dinged for flaming/trolling neo-nazis, just as they do for flaming/trolling anyone else. All players are expected to express their opinions in a manner which does not constitute flaming and/or trolling.

Ballotonia

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:41 am**

Delvosity wrote:Excuse me NS mods,

If I think all LGBT's are 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash', that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point. I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

Nazis don't call non-Nazis 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash' or 'sick'.

This is where the difference in how you've been treated stems from. You have flamed, arguably trolled and/or baited the site with completely needless claptrap. Legitimate Nazi supporters, which the site doesn't really have that many of, don't say the same of non-Nazis. They're fully aware of what it would bring down upon them.

The UDHR also says that people are free to live without facing discrimination on account of their ethnicity, gender or sexual preferences.
Your right to "free speech" (though what you call "free" speech was never intended to condone or permit the kind of crap you talk) ends where their right to live free begins. Which is, ad infinitum.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:47 am**

I for one, as a Christian person and nation on NS, support what the OP is trying to say.
We have a right to expressing our own opinions, and it is not our fault is they get angry.

Hi, welcome to the internet, the world of endless possibilities, come prepared, its not nice out here.

If the right for me to express my religious teachings and opinions is being supressed, then I might as well leave NS.
But I must also agree that there is a thin line between Hate Speech and Personal Opinion, and the mods need to discover that line.

Because what some of the mods consider Hate Speech now adays is BS.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:49 am**

I'm also assuming this is a discussion thread, since this line was left:

This is open for discussion, good day.

However I'd like mod confirmation before stepping farther into posting anything.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:52 am**

United Bogan States wrote:I for one, as a Christian person and nation on NS, support what the OP is trying to say.
We have a right to expressing our own opinions, and it is not our fault is they get angry.

Hi, welcome to the internet, the world of endless possibilities, come prepared, its not nice out here.

If the right for me to express my religious teachings and opinions is being supressed, then I might as well leave NS.
But I must also agree that there is a thin line between Hate Speech and Personal Opinion, and the mods need to discover that line.

Because what some of the mods consider Hate Speech now adays is BS.

There is A, no good reason to treat persons the way you believe your religion has taught you to and B, few good reasons to believe that's even what your religion teaches you.

"Because an older boy told me to do it" has never been a valid excuse.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:53 am**

Delvosity wrote:Excuse me NS mods,

If I think all LGBT's are 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash', that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point. I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

If I hate anything - I'll say it, what can you do about it? NOTHING! Just because you are a moderator does not give you the god given right to control someones opinion. So your trying to say I don't have the basic right to come on a FREE, GLOBAL internet and speak my mind? What is this, NORTH KOREA?

So in conclusion...

If I think LGBT's are sick, I will gladly say it knowing that is my opinion and I am human and I have the basic rights to have an opinion.

This is open for discussion, good day.

Change LGBTs for african americans in your post and you'll see why. Also no, NS isn't a democracy, no absolute freedom of speech, it even says so in the FAQ.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:54 am**

Delvosity wrote:Excuse me NS mods,

If I think all LGBT's are 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash', that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point. I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

If I hate anything - I'll say it, what can you do about it? NOTHING! Just because you are a moderator does not give you the god given right to control someones opinion. So your trying to say I don't have the basic right to come on a FREE, GLOBAL internet and speak my mind? What is this, NORTH KOREA?

So in conclusion...

If I think LGBT's are sick, I will gladly say it knowing that is my opinion and I am human and I have the basic rights to have an opinion.

This is open for discussion, good day.

You are free to dislike them all you like, but you aren't free to express that dislike just any way you like. Tough shit, the rules apply to everyone.

United Bogan States wrote:I for one, as a Christian person and nation on NS, support what the OP is trying to say.
We have a right to expressing our own opinions, and it is not our fault is they get angry.

Hi, welcome to the internet, the world of endless possibilities, come prepared, its not nice out here.

If the right for me to express my religious teachings and opinions is being supressed, then I might as well leave NS.
But I must also agree that there is a thin line between Hate Speech and Personal Opinion, and the mods need to discover that line.

Because what some of the mods consider Hate Speech now adays is BS.

I take it you wouldn't object to it if I were to claim religion was a mental illness then? After all, I would merely be expressing an opinion.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:56 am**

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=legal

Specifically, "You may submit content to NationStates.net so long as it is not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, or defamatory..."

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:59 am**

There's a difference between freedom of speech and hate speech.

Your comments are clearly intended for malicious purposes, and can only hence be classified as hate speech.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:00 am**

I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

^ This part I am very confused. Do you support National Socialism or that you're emphasizing that everything LGBT is evil?

But you must know that this website is privately held and the one who owns it determines what is allowed and what is not. And having no say here wouldn't matter, we don't live here. It may if the situation is IRL.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:03 am**

Esclare wrote:
Delvosity wrote:Excuse me NS mods,

If I think all LGBT's are 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash', that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point. I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

If I hate anything - I'll say it, what can you do about it? NOTHING! Just because you are a moderator does not give you the god given right to control someones opinion. So your trying to say I don't have the basic right to come on a FREE, GLOBAL internet and speak my mind? What is this, NORTH KOREA?

So in conclusion...

If I think LGBT's are sick, I will gladly say it knowing that is my opinion and I am human and I have the basic rights to have an opinion.

This is open for discussion, good day.

Change LGBTs for african americans in your post and you'll see why. Also no, NS isn't a democracy, no absolute freedom of speech, it even says so in the FAQ.

I'm not African-American...?

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:10 am**

Delvosity wrote:
Esclare wrote:
Change LGBTs for african americans in your post and you'll see why. Also no, NS isn't a democracy, no absolute freedom of speech, it even says so in the FAQ.

I'm not African-American...?

It's the same as calling an black man or a white man a sick dog

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:14 am**

The Royally United Provinces wrote:
Delvosity wrote:I'm not African-American...?

It's the same as calling an black man or a white man a sick dog

Thats their opinion and they can stick too it.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:21 am**

Delvosity wrote:
The Royally United Provinces wrote:It's the same as calling an black man or a white man a sick dog

Thats their opinion and they can stick too it.

Relevant

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:25 am**

"Trolling/Baiting/Gloating: Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). Someone disagreeing with you does not equate to trolling. Intent is incredibly important and will be judged by the moderators to the best of their abilities. Honest belief does not excuse trolling. Disagreements are expected and conducting yourself in a civil manner is ideal. Trollbaiting is the action of making posts that attract trolls. A prime example of trollbaiting would be gloating over the results of an election."

And it is easy for mods to miss-understand one's personal opinion for trolling/baiting/hate speech.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:27 am**

Delvosity wrote:"Trolling/Baiting/Gloating: Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). Someone disagreeing with you does not equate to trolling. Intent is incredibly important and will be judged by the moderators to the best of their abilities. Honest belief does not excuse trolling. Disagreements are expected and conducting yourself in a civil manner is ideal. Trollbaiting is the action of making posts that attract trolls. A prime example of trollbaiting would be gloating over the results of an election."

And it is easy for mods to miss-understand one's personal opinion for trolling/baiting/hate speech.

You had just done so in your post. There is nothing wrong with disliking LGBTs, however wording on disliking them is very important.

Say for example, I say, "I don't like homosexuals", nothing bad.

However, if I said

Delvosity wrote:I think all LGBT's are fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash

Then that comes off as trolling

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:27 am**

Delvosity wrote:"Trolling/Baiting/Gloating: Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). Someone disagreeing with you does not equate to trolling. Intent is incredibly important and will be judged by the moderators to the best of their abilities. Honest belief does not excuse trolling. Disagreements are expected and conducting yourself in a civil manner is ideal. Trollbaiting is the action of making posts that attract trolls. A prime example of trollbaiting would be gloating over the results of an election."

And it is easy for mods to miss-understand one's personal opinion for trolling/baiting/hate speech.

Judging by the language you used, your post falls into that category.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:53 am**

This should clear up any confusions you have about your rights to free speech.

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:59 am**

Also, for all this banging on about your freedom of speech, aren't you infringing on everyone else's right to free speech by saying they're not allowed to be offended by what you say?

Posted: **Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:13 am**

Delvosity wrote:Excuse me NS mods,

If I think all LGBT's are 'fucking dillusional ill insane dogs on a leash', that is my opinion and I am sticking too it, if someone is going to take offense from it tough, this is the internet, you know every possibility of what could happen from when you turn on that damned computer and sign in, and im sick of seeing people being banned for expressing their minds. We live in modern society, and according to the UN resolution on basic human rights, I have the absolute authority to express my point. I don't see mods banning people for hating on Nazi's, but I see mods banning people for hating on LGBT's. So you mods are basically saying Nazi's are better than LGBT's now?

If I hate anything - I'll say it, what can you do about it? NOTHING! Just because you are a moderator does not give you the god given right to control someones opinion. So your trying to say I don't have the basic right to come on a FREE, GLOBAL internet and speak my mind? What is this, NORTH KOREA?

So in conclusion...

If I think LGBT's are sick, I will gladly say it knowing that is my opinion and I am human and I have the basic rights to have an opinion.

This is open for discussion, good day.

You're more than welcome to express your opinion on the rest of the free and global internet. On NS however, there are rules that apply to everyone. You're free to leave if you don't like it.

Continuing with LGBT trolling will result in more punitive moderation action against you. For now you earn a *** warning for trolling ***.

Seeing that this has adequately been addressed, I lock the topic.

Edit:

United Bogan States wrote:I for one, as a Christian person and nation on NS, support what the OP is trying to say.
We have a right to expressing our own opinions, and it is not our fault is they get angry.

Hi, welcome to the internet, the world of endless possibilities, come prepared, its not nice out here.

If the right for me to express my religious teachings and opinions is being supressed, then I might as well leave NS.
But I must also agree that there is a thin line between Hate Speech and Personal Opinion, and the mods need to discover that line.

Because what some of the mods consider Hate Speech now adays is BS.

Don't use puppets to try and support your point.

NationStates

[Q] Whats so wrong about disliking LGBT's?

[Q] Whats so wrong about disliking LGBT's?