Questions About Rules On Content

[Grimadean]

I wanted to ask about the rules of the site, so that I better understand, don't break any rules and can offer suggestions.

There are certain images that are not allowed on flags, in messages or in posts, but I have also heard the argument that, “if you don’t like seeing something, then stop looking at it”. I know this is probably a necessary rule for your website, considering that people have to see the flags next to the name. Would it be possible to hide flags and other images (maybe through spoilers) and someone has to click to see, so that this allows everyone the freedom of choice in what to put up and what to see? This may still not be in line with what you need for this site, maybe you have some sort of rating that you are trying to keep, and I get that, so it’s just a suggestion.

As far as rules concerning the laws (US laws?), several of them I understood, but I was wondering if there could be more clarification on others.

OBSCENE
I searched for a while on this and, while it seems to point to more sexualized content, I have seen/heard individuals use the word for more, but even on legal websites it writes this: "Another sticking point in obscenity prosecutions involves the often overbroad interpretation of what is obscene".

Does the website have a formal view on what is obscene? I read how for instance the Swastika is forbidden and how a pro-zombie flag could be banned, which reminds me of the Miller’s Test (“taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value”), but how are “average” viewers determined? Is there a study on the perception of these things worldwide, nationwide or specifically here on the website? Is that maybe a function of the World Assembly and could it possibly be (if not), or is there a poll going on for all the world (regardless of WA status) that we can answer?

DEFAMATION
“Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.”

This is easy enough, I think, but I have seen defamation of a region by a player/second region concerning some sort of coup. Is there a specific type of defamation that is allowable?

Thank you for reading and hope to hear back.

[Indian Empire]

I think they should have a "flag ignore list" where you could possibly only hide the flags of certain users. Or, this could also be put in as a standard of the ignore list.

[Grimadean]

I think they should have a "flag ignore list" where you could possibly only hide the flags of certain users. Or, this could also be put in as a standard of the ignore list.

A flag ignore list would be cool. In a way, that could be phrased as another ingredient of politics, recognition of national status. While adding flags to an ignore list serves a function, it could also be a way of expressing your country's views of the legitimacy of another nation. I mean, even warring with nations doesn't say whether or not a nation views their enemies as a REAL country.

[Tescopolis]

Or, and this is a pretty far out idea so sorry if it confuses anyone, you don't make your flags blatantly offensive.

If you want to RP as a Nazi-esque nation then make a flag which looks evil and 30's like and use that, don't use ACTUAL Nazi symbolism. It's not just about individuals being offended, it's about the sites morals and judgement too. An ignore list would still allow nations with horribly offensive imagery visible to everyone who hasn't blocked it or who hasn't got an account.

It's also to do with keeping everything relatively SFW, if obscene and offensive material was allowed but could be blocked by individuals, anyone browsing the internet in safe mode wouldn't find the site easily, and if the first thing you saw when clicking on the site were obscene images or Nazi-flags, you would probably be very put off.

[Ballotonia]

Moved to Moderation.

Ballotonia

[Bari]

There's a setting in the User Control Panel that allows you to simply ignore all flags by simply not showing them.

[Grimadean]

Thank you, Ballotonia, for putting this in the proper place. I didn't know about this thread, so apologies for that.

There's a setting in the User Control Panel that allows you to simply ignore all flags by simply not showing them.

Oh! Awesome. As the default, maybe then people can choose whether or not to see specific flags.

Or, and this is a pretty far out idea so sorry if it confuses anyone, you don't make your flags blatantly offensive.

If you want to RP as a Nazi-esque nation then make a flag which looks evil and 30's like and use that, don't use ACTUAL Nazi symbolism. It's not just about individuals being offended, it's about the sites morals and judgement too. An ignore list would still allow nations with horribly offensive imagery visible to everyone who hasn't blocked it or who hasn't got an account.

It's also to do with keeping everything relatively SFW, if obscene and offensive material was allowed but could be blocked by individuals, anyone browsing the internet in safe mode wouldn't find the site easily, and if the first thing you saw when clicking on the site were obscene images or Nazi-flags, you would probably be very put off.

Not confusing, but I'm not sure if you understand that people already know that there are rules about what goes on the flag. Otherwise, they would have just put the content on their flags, rather than making suggestions. If I need to spell that out more, then I will try again next round.

Also, according to what I have seen of the website morals, is that they try to tolerant, except of things that would discourage activity on the website, like insults or threats or things that would have a state shutdown the website. I completely understand that, but I wanted to know exactly what would cause that and that's also why I love the suggestion above about being able to block flag content.

Everyone else choosing to see it is the point of not blocking the flag entirely, but you are right for how off putting it would be for those not on the website. Maybe it would be better if the default was to not see the flags and then choose which ones you wanted to see. This could also help with loading time. OR allow the moderators to decide what they think might be offensive, put a spoiler button to it and then it is up to whoever to decide if they want to see something like that.

This is a bunny trail though. Originally, I started the thread to try to know exactly what is allowed and what is not. Website features popped in.

[Katganistan]

Re: Obscenity, I would like to quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it[....]"

Judgment call. Moderation's.

Defamation refers to harming one's real life reputation. You can't 'defame' a region -- it's not a person.

You can and will get smacked for trollinga region or a player though. And again, judgment call on Moderation's part.

I can't help but wonder at all the attempts at line drawing lately -- this is the second thread of this type today. We're not about to play 'let's see how close to the line we can get before getting warned.' See the General Guidelines, re: Rules Lawyering.

[Grimadean]

Re: Obscenity, I would like to quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart:

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it[....]"

Judgment call. Moderation's.

I can't say that I agree with Stewart's quote, but this is not my website, so I will try to watch out for and remain within modern moral boundaries (US style? cuz in many European countries it seems to be less strict on beachwear ).

Defamation refers to harming one's real life reputation. You can't 'defame' a region -- it's not a person.

You can and will get smacked for trollinga region or a player though. And again, judgment call on Moderation's part.

Gotcha.

I can't help but wonder at all the attempts at line drawing lately -- this is the second thread of this type today. We're not about to play 'let's see how close to the line we can get before getting warned.' See the General Guidelines, re: Rules Lawyering.

I'm not sure if two in one day is a lot, but this is the first time I have made a thread that was supposed to be in Moderation and I made this some time back. I am not trying to see how far I can push, but to be able to make a defense (Appeals Process?) if I did cross a line. For instance, the heart on my flag could be perceived by someone as a woman's rear end, which is the origin of the symbol (and also why I am thinking of changing it, because I do NOT want to propagate a bad symbol). They could also view my Anarchy "A" as a sign that I want to throw bombs, even though Propaganda of the Deed was not exclusive to anarchism. For this, I want to keep, because I think there is a misunderstanding of what anarchy is and that symbol is a conversation starter.

In any case, I really appreciate the reply. You covered all my questions, too, so many, many thanks. I'll quote that section, you mentioned above, down below to make sure I have the correct section.

3) No rules lawyering. The intent of a post (while sometimes hard to judge), is a very important factor when determining whether or not it is actionable. The Moderation team does its best to interpret it. Agreeing or disagreeing with a moderation decision at whatever length you wish is perfectly within the rules, so long as it is done tactfully and civilly. Please see the Appeals Process (listed below) for further information.

That said, moderator decisions are not to be taken in bad faith. For instance, if something is ruled to be acceptable, don't turn around and use that ruling to bait another player (e.g. "In this case, I don't think Player 2 intended to be malicious when he described Player 1 as a 'maladjusted rapscallion.'" "Okay. Hey, Player 2! You're a maladjusted rapscallion! Moderator 3 said it's okay to call people that!"). This will never end well for you and it's best to simply leave things be; if you are doing so in an attempt to demonstrate that a moderator decision is wrong, simply file an appeal.

[Tsaraine]

In the case of your flag, we'd use the "reasonable person" yardstick. As in "would a hypothetical reasonable person be offended by this?" If someone's taking offense at a heart symbol because it "looks like a woman's rear end", they're plainly unreasonable and we'd tell them to shove it. Same with the anarchy symbol. Basically as your flag doesn't seem to be advocating real-world violence it's fine, and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably a bit of a shrieking violet.

~ Tsar the Mod

Interesting hypothesis about the origins of the heart symbol, btw; the explanation I'd heard was that it was originally a leaf of the silphium plant, a (now-extinct) relative of fennel used in the ancient world as a contraceptive.

[Grimadean]

In the case of your flag, we'd use the "reasonable person" yardstick. As in "would a hypothetical reasonable person be offended by this?" If someone's taking offense at a heart symbol because it "looks like a woman's rear end", they're plainly unreasonable and we'd tell them to shove it. Same with the anarchy symbol. Basically as your flag doesn't seem to be advocating real-world violence it's fine, and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably a bit of a shrieking violet.

~ Tsar the Mod

Interesting hypothesis about the origins of the heart symbol, btw; the explanation I'd heard was that it was originally a leaf of the silphium plant, a (now-extinct) relative of fennel used in the ancient world as a contraceptive.

To be fair, it's just a speculation for why the shape has changed, but you are right that the original symbol was from a plant. I think one source said it was a fig.

Overall, that's great to know. I didn't want to change the heart or anarchy symbols, so thanks.