[REPORT] Trolling and flamebaiting in gamer thread

[Lysset]

Before this blows up: If you don't agree with Czech, ignore him.I'm unable to face hard facts so I'm going to whine about Czech some more when he makes a very compelling argument.

Is there something wrong with my eyes?

I don't think putting words into someone's mouth that they didn't say is kosher.

And this post, by Czhecanda, tries to justify PC Gamers being pretentious and unkind as they want because PC is superior, which I doubt is kosher, either.

And the shit PC gamers pull sometimes makes me regret the fact that I could be considered someone who games primarily on a personal computer.

Every group has it's shitty people. Have some self-confidence.

Nonsense.

Take pride in the fact that our platform is the one best suited to the development of technological progress, gaming progress, and social progress.

The advancement of technology does not always necessarily result in the betterment of society; Progress in history is not linear. Technology has always benefited humanity the most when everyone has access to and control over the technology itself and its fruits rather than being in the hands of an elite few. Examples of this would be the invention of the printing press and the discovery of insulin.

Since PC gaming is an open platform, as opposed to the closed system of consoles, everyone has control and access to gaming technology from the gamer and developer. People can make and play whatever games they want which results in a better gaming ecosystem for everyone. Indie developers are able to compete with larger corporations since they are not extorted with the multitude of fees that console manufacturers impose, and the audience is not forced to subject themselves to the standardized blockbuster shovelware that corporations churn out on a yearly basis. Developers are allowed to make whichever game they want since they are not beholden to not only to the whims of publishers that dictate the creation games solely based on market demand rather than artistic inspiration, but also to the single control scheme of the gamepad; There can actually be diversity in the FPS genre on the PC. FPSes on consoles are always in some sort of horrible limbo; They're too slow to be arena shooters but too fast to be simulators. It's like some sort of awkward middle ground between masturbation and sexual intercourse where one doesn't derive the benefits of both.

Moreover, PC gaming is better for society overall; As PC gamers, we can purchase parts that are mostly metal that can be recycled, download all of our games so that we don't use unrecyclable plastic for our discs, and can buy energy-efficient parts as well thus being better for the environment. PC gamers can buy parts from companies that manufacture in countries with ethical labour laws like Taiwan thus preventing the use of inhumane and exploitative labour. One may argue that in the vast networks of manufacturers and suppliers that there will be unethical labour somewhere down the line, but as conscientious and responsible consumers we should make the effort to minimize this as much as possible.

Therefore, PC gamers have the right to be as brash, pretentious, and arrogant as they want to be and you have no cause to be ashamed of other PC gamers.

Emphasis mine.

In any case, could a Mod come over and remind people to be courteous one to another? This thread could use one. Thanks in advance!

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

viewtopic.php?p=21705507#p21705507

[The Corparation]

I'd like to appeal the thread lock. The conversation in the thread had already passed by the reported posts and was continuing on back on track. In addition the majority of the posters in the thread had passed by those posts without comment and the rest of the thread was both on topic and well behaved.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

This is not the first time this sort of discussion and attitude has been brought up in the thread. It was simply the latest. Other mods are as always free to make a ruling on the appeal, simply clarifying the lock.

[Czechanada]

I would like to emphasize that Lysset and Nathi are both putting words into my mouth, thereby contradicting Lysset's earlier charge of putting words in other peoples mouths ; I never for once argued that PC gamers as Lysset put it, should be "unkind" towards other people. Nor have I once stated that anyone has "the right to insult others."

As an academic, which said status has been recognized by other moderators of this forum, I utilize critical theory as a supplement to my own work on sociology and social theory. Critical theory presupposes the notion that science should be unbiased and merely observational; Instead, social scientists and theorists should occupy valued-based and normative positions in an effort to criticize (in the academic and not perjorative sense) rather than to report. I admit that I may have crudely phrased it, but I was only hoping to inspire that same passion and value-based fervour in order to bring about a benefit to society.

Moreover, I would like to suggest that there is a potentiality of moderator bias in this ruling, given the previous participation of the involved moderator in the thread occupying the position that the complainant is defending.

[Frisbeeteria]

Moreover, I would like to suggest that there is a potentiality of moderator bias in this ruling, given the previous participation of the involved moderator in the thread occupying the position that the complainant is defending.

I'm totally uninvolved with the thread, and I'm not seeing anything wrong with the conclusions here or the ruling to lock the thread. Nobody got any redtext, nobody got warned.

Critical theory or not, it pretty much reads, "You have no right to disagree with me." Appeal (if that's what it was) denied.

[Czechanada]

Moreover, I would like to suggest that there is a potentiality of moderator bias in this ruling, given the previous participation of the involved moderator in the thread occupying the position that the complainant is defending.

I'm totally uninvolved with the thread, and I'm not seeing anything wrong with the conclusions here or the ruling to lock the thread. Nobody got any redtext, nobody got warned.

Critical theory or not, it pretty much reads, "You have no right to disagree with me." Appeal (if that's what it was) denied.

In all honest sincerity may I ask that you please elaborate on how it reads as "You have no right to disagree with me."?

Also, my first point was not a request for an appeal, but a request for a review of the conduct of both the moderator and complainant.

[The Matthew Islands]

I too would like to appeal the lock. Blundering in and ham-fisted-ly locking a relatively active thread with a fair few posters involved in it is completely ridiculous.

This involved like 2 people for pretty minor offences. On top of which throughout all 3 incarnations I don't think nobody has ever gotten any red text, we had one knock it off and you just lock the thread? That's nonsense.

[Zeinbrad]

I too would like to appeal the lock. Blundering in and ham-fisted-ly locking a relatively active thread with a fair few posters involved in it is completely ridiculous.

This involved like 2 people for pretty minor offences. On top of which throughout all 3 incarnations I don't think nobody has ever gotten any red text, we had one knock it off and you just lock the thread? That's nonsense.

Agreed.

Through I have a feeling that it was going to turn into a flamefest. Mostly on how some people worded their posts and such.

Czech is not one of those. Despite on how extreme he seems, he's civil.

[New Frenco Empire]

I'm probably spamming moderation and deserve a warning, but honestly, had I been online before the lock to see Czech's response, I might have been the one to turn it flamebait-ish, so yes, this was a good decision.

Can I request that the next gamer thread be mod-sanctioned? It's situations like the reported that make it too exclusive to certain people and take the fun away from everyone else.

[Gristol-Serkonos]

I too would like to appeal for a removal of the lock.

Most of the conversation that occur in this thread has been civil and is compliant with the site FAQ. Throughout my experience in my involvement in the previous incarnations of the thread (before I switched over from my former nation, Meritocratic States), none has been reprimanded and received a red text. Admittedly we only have a "knock it off" from one of the fellow mods. Despite claims that the thread has become cliquish and divisive, this thread series has been inclusive towards new posters.

It is also important to note that most of the posters in the thread are PC gamers, which is the reason why the general opinion biased towards PC gaming.

Can I request that the next gamer thread be mod-sanctioned? It's situations like the reported that make it too exclusive to certain people and take the fun away from everyone else.

I disagree.

Previous threads has always started by a democratically elected person. It has always been that way.

[Spoder]

While I apologize if my post may have offended any posters, I would like to appeal the lock as well.


Why?

If you looks at response posts to Czech's rhetoric, none of them have the NS standard of "attack the post, not the poster" and many of them simply dismiss Czech as a "troll" or a "bigot".

My post was a satirical comment that summed up what I have seen since joining the gamers thread as far as the conclusion of arguments with Czech about PC vs. Console.

We have never not allowed consolites to join, and we have never held a double standard.

We are allowed to express our opinion on nationstates, and we are allowed to attack poster's arguments/posts, are we not?

This lock signals to me that moderators no longer uphold the standard of nationstates, and will cater to anybody who is upset by a majority of posters disagreeing with their opinions, and pointing out the flaws in their argument.

The action is heavy-handed, as many posters have stated. We have had the same argument several times, and the result has always been similar; some of us more notorious PC gamers (i.e: Czech, myself) have defended our opinions with hard facts, and then other posters made no rhetoric, and instead mocked us as "bigoted" and "elitist", and rather than address the argument, chose to ignore and simply repeat the same things over and over.

[Euroslavia]

This lock signals to me that moderators no longer uphold the standard of nationstates, and will cater to anybody who is upset by a majority of posters disagreeing with their opinions, and pointing out the flaws in their argument.

The action is heavy-handed, as many posters have stated. We have had the same argument several times, and the result has always been similar; some of us more notorious PC gamers (i.e: Czech, myself) have defended our opinions with hard facts, and then other posters made no rhetoric, and instead mocked us as "bigoted" and "elitist", and rather than address the argument, chose to ignore and simply repeat the same things over and over.

A bit of an overreaction, in my opinion.

Regardless, this will be discussed. Please be patient.

[New Frenco Empire]

While I apologize if my post may have offended any posters, I would like to appeal the lock as well.


Why?

If you looks at response posts to Czech's rhetoric, none of them have the NS standard of "attack the post, not the poster" and many of them simply dismiss Czech as a "troll" or a "bigot".

My post was a satirical comment that summed up what I have seen since joining the gamers thread as far as the conclusion of arguments with Czech about PC vs. Console.

We have never not allowed consolites to join, and we have never held a double standard.

We are allowed to express our opinion on nationstates, and we are allowed to attack poster's arguments/posts, are we not?

This lock signals to me that moderators no longer uphold the standard of nationstates, and will cater to anybody who is upset by a majority of posters disagreeing with their opinions, and pointing out the flaws in their argument.

The action is heavy-handed, as many posters have stated. We have had the same argument several times, and the result has always been similar; some of us more notorious PC gamers (i.e: Czech, myself) have defended our opinions with hard facts, and then other posters made no rhetoric, and instead mocked us as "bigoted" and "elitist", and rather than address the argument, chose to ignore and simply repeat the same things over and over.

I'm almost certain the only argument that went against yours/Czech's was "there is no need to act like a condescending jerk based on material possessions", which I could have swore didn't need "hard facts" to remain in the realm of common sense. I'm almost certain that no one is saying "console >>> PC" or anything even close.

Therefore, PC gamers have the right to be as brash, pretentious, and arrogant as they want to be and you have no cause to be ashamed of other PC gamers.

The quoted is bullshit and the epitome of useless entitlement that some folks carry based on this non-issue.

This is why I think we need to rethink all of this.

[Spoder]

While I apologize if my post may have offended any posters, I would like to appeal the lock as well.


Why?

If you looks at response posts to Czech's rhetoric, none of them have the NS standard of "attack the post, not the poster" and many of them simply dismiss Czech as a "troll" or a "bigot".

My post was a satirical comment that summed up what I have seen since joining the gamers thread as far as the conclusion of arguments with Czech about PC vs. Console.

We have never not allowed consolites to join, and we have never held a double standard.

We are allowed to express our opinion on nationstates, and we are allowed to attack poster's arguments/posts, are we not?

This lock signals to me that moderators no longer uphold the standard of nationstates, and will cater to anybody who is upset by a majority of posters disagreeing with their opinions, and pointing out the flaws in their argument.

The action is heavy-handed, as many posters have stated. We have had the same argument several times, and the result has always been similar; some of us more notorious PC gamers (i.e: Czech, myself) have defended our opinions with hard facts, and then other posters made no rhetoric, and instead mocked us as "bigoted" and "elitist", and rather than address the argument, chose to ignore and simply repeat the same things over and over.

I'm almost certain the only argument that went against yours/Czech's was "there is no need to act like a condescending jerk based on material possessions", which I could have swore didn't need "hard facts" to remain in the realm of common sense. I'm almost certain that no one is saying "console >>> PC" or anything even close.

Therefore, PC gamers have the right to be as brash, pretentious, and arrogant as they want to be and you have no cause to be ashamed of other PC gamers.

The quoted is bullshit and the epitome of useless entitlement that some folks carry based on this non-issue.

This is why I think we need to rethink all of this.

1. We should not be debating this in moderation.

2. I see no reason to lock the thread, as the post is cherry-picked and none of the discussion that led to the post is mentioned, and we never, ever seen a red text warning in the Gamer threads.

[New Frenco Empire]

I'm almost certain the only argument that went against yours/Czech's was "there is no need to act like a condescending jerk based on material possessions", which I could have swore didn't need "hard facts" to remain in the realm of common sense. I'm almost certain that no one is saying "console >>> PC" or anything even close.



The quoted is bullshit and the epitome of useless entitlement that some folks carry based on this non-issue.

This is why I think we need to rethink all of this.

1. We should not be debating this in moderation.

I'm debating about as much as you are right now in attempting to appeal. It may count as debating, but I just want to expose that your "you're taking away our right to debate" argument isn't what you make it out to be.

2. I see no reason to lock the thread, as the post is cherry-picked and none of the discussion that led to the post is mentioned, and we never, ever seen a red text warning in the Gamer threads.

I've been lurking the thread for a long while, and in my experience, this was just the final nail in the coffin. Besides, they said they'll unlock it eventually anyway, so it's not like this incident actually led to the gamer thread's coffin.

[Spoder]

1. We should not be debating this in moderation.

I'm debating about as much as you are right now in attempting to appeal. It may count as debating, but I just want to expose that your "you're taking away our right to debate" argument isn't what you make it out to be.

2. I see no reason to lock the thread, as the post is cherry-picked and none of the discussion that led to the post is mentioned, and we never, ever seen a red text warning in the Gamer threads.

I've been lurking the thread for a long while, and in my experience, this was just the final nail in the coffin. Besides, they said they'll unlock it eventually anyway, so it's not like this incident actually led to the gamer thread's coffin.

It isn't exactly normal for moderators to ignore these issues for so long, or call them acceptable and then all of a sudden unlock the thread.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

May I remind you all that this is NOT a discussion thread. It is a report thread. You have voiced your opinions, and as Euro stated, it will be discussed further elsewhere. Thank you.

[The Matthew Islands]

I don't suppose we could have an update on this please?

I don't know what time zones you operate on, but I think for me its been about a day.

[The Matthew Islands]

It's been several days now, and I am mildly annoyed that it is taking this long to reach a relatively easy conclusion (I.E. Re-opening the thread)

[The Republic of Merrimont]

Guys it was close to 500 pages we'll just make another.

[The Matthew Islands]

Guys it was close to 500 pages we'll just make another.

We need the thread open to conduct the vote for who is the next OP.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

As it stands, we're debating on whether or not the behavior warrants a reopening/continuation or not. Will the behavior stop if we do reopen it? Will it continue regardless of our actions? Is it worth the problem/headache?

Given how many gaming forums exist out there, where such things are discussed on an hourly basis, from the individual platforms, to companies, to the games themselves, it isn't as if you're bereft of places to discuss.

The behavior thus far has not done anything to convince me that this ought to be reopened. What others think, we'll know once this has been sorted. Thanks.