[Discussion] Nazi/Neo-Nazi symbolism in NS

[District XIV]

when someone sees the Israeli flag, they will generally associate it with the violence in Gaza.

Really? I don't. I just think "huh. Israel." when I see their flag.

[Roski]

To comment on Mallorea and Riva's comment on the Israeli flag, yes, in fact. With all that's in the news, when someone sees the Israeli flag, they will generally associate it with the violence in Gaza.

I actually associate it with Israel, but ok.

[Geanna]

To comment on Mallorea and Riva's comment on the Israeli flag, yes, in fact. With all that's in the news, when someone sees the Israeli flag, they will generally associate it with the violence in Gaza.

I actually associate it with Israel, but ok.

Same here, it's a feign attempt to try and justify why the swastika should be allowed. Though it's been outlined, that it won't change. People just don't read.

[Mereon]

I don't think the Swastika should be allowed. I think more flags should be banned then currently are.

[District XIV]

I don't think the Swastika should be allowed. I think more flags should be banned then currently are.

The Swastika isn't allowed.

At least, in flags and whatnot.

[Mereon]

I know that, I was saying it to the person who replied to me who seemed to say that he thought that I was making a case for the swastika.

[District XIV]

I know that, I was saying it to the person who replied to me who seemed to say that he thought that I was making a case for the swastika.

Oh, ok. The way you said it ("I think...") made it seem like you were unaware.

[UED]

I don't think the Swastika should be allowed. I think more flags should be banned then currently are.

The Swastika isn't allowed.

At least, in flags and whatnot.

But the Imperial Japanese Flag is allowed

[District XIV]

The Swastika isn't allowed.

At least, in flags and whatnot.

But the Imperial Japanese Flag is allowed

I'd expect that when most people, like me, see the Rising Sun think of Japan and/or Japanese Imperialism rather than the possible atrocities associated with it.

[UED]

But the Imperial Japanese Flag is allowed

I'd expect that when most people, like me, see the Rising Sun think of Japan and/or Japanese Imperialism.

Some people like me see it as reminders of comfort women and mass genocide, but it isn't banned in NS


Edit: I guess its cause your from the west, while the Chinese and Koreans like me tend to see it as what I see it as.

[The Nihilistic view]

I'm not bothered which way it goes but I do find it highly inconsistent, either ban everything like that from USSR, Mao and Saddam. Basically anyone involved in Genocide or don't ban anything that does not break the pg-13 rule.

[Kringalia]

I'm not bothered which way it goes but I do find it highly inconsistent, either ban everything like that from USSR, Mao and Saddam. Basically anyone involved in Genocide or don't ban anything that does not break the pg-13 rule.

You are missing the point. Symbols here aren't banned based on who killed more, they are banned based on the association that a reasonable person would make. People see a swastika and automatically think of Nazis and the Holocaust, and that is universally offensive. People see Saddam and they think of Iraq, they see the USSR and they think about communism, people see Mao and they think of China and communism, not genocide. It's not what they did that got them banned, it's how offensive they are to any reasonable person.

[The Nihilistic view]

I'm not bothered which way it goes but I do find it highly inconsistent, either ban everything like that from USSR, Mao and Saddam. Basically anyone involved in Genocide or don't ban anything that does not break the pg-13 rule.

You are missing the point. Symbols here aren't banned based on who killed more, they are banned based on the association that a reasonable person would make. People see a swastika and automatically think of Nazis and the Holocaust, and that is universally offensive. People see Saddam and they think of Iraq, they see the USSR and they think about communism, people see Mao and they think of China and communism, not genocide. It's not what they did that got them banned, it's how offensive they are to any reasonable person.

So seeing a flag of say the USSR and thinking of the Great terror or purge or perhaps the induced famines in the Ukraine makes a person unreasonable now?

[Geanna]

You are missing the point. Symbols here aren't banned based on who killed more, they are banned based on the association that a reasonable person would make. People see a swastika and automatically think of Nazis and the Holocaust, and that is universally offensive. People see Saddam and they think of Iraq, they see the USSR and they think about communism, people see Mao and they think of China and communism, not genocide. It's not what they did that got them banned, it's how offensive they are to any reasonable person.

So seeing a flag of say the USSR and thinking of the Great terror or purge or perhaps the induced famines in the Ukraine makes a person unreasonable now?

No, however, continuing the discussion has become rather redundant. It is contentious, but it won't change.

[The Pacifican Islands]

I'd expect that when most people, like me, see the Rising Sun think of Japan and/or Japanese Imperialism.

Some people like me see it as reminders of comfort women and mass genocide, but it isn't banned in NS


Edit: I guess its cause your from the west, while the Chinese and Koreans like me tend to see it as what I see it as.

I agree with UED, as I am ethically Chinese and much of the people that come from the farming village that my grandpa was born in were killed, skewered, and roasted, and.... other over PG-13 stuff. Anyways, I would associate the Rising Sun with death, rape and other stuff.

[Tano]

Some people like me see it as reminders of comfort women and mass genocide, but it isn't banned in NS


Edit: I guess its cause your from the west, while the Chinese and Koreans like me tend to see it as what I see it as.

I agree with UED, as I am ethically Chinese and much of the people that come from the farming village that my grandpa was born in were killed, skewered, and roasted, and.... other over PG-13 stuff. Anyways, I would associate the Rising Sun with death, rape and other stuff.

Unfortunate, but Max makes the rules and Max only banned Swastikas.

[Bari]

I may have missed this, but if there were a nation with a Ustasa flag, and it's IC nation had policies befitting the Ustase and role played as one, would that same nation be in violation of a rule here?

[Tano]

I may have missed this, but if there were a nation with a Ustasa flag, and it's IC nation had policies befitting the Ustase and role played as one, would that same nation be in violation of a rule here?

If it has a swastika in it, it is banned. Other symobls (except for phallic obviously) are allowed.

[Bari]

I may have missed this, but if there were a nation with a Ustasa flag, and it's IC nation had policies befitting the Ustase and role played as one, would that same nation be in violation of a rule here?

If it has a swastika in it, it is banned. Other symobls (except for phallic obviously) are allowed.

Moderators, is this true?

[Reploid Productions]

If it has a swastika in it, it is banned. Other symobls (except for phallic obviously) are allowed.

Moderators, is this true?

Liiiittle bit more complicated than that, as context is important. For instance, the Rising Sun by itself isn't automatically banned, however that doesn't mean a nation with that flag, and a motto about "Ha ha, bombed your grandparents!" or similar is going to be okay. If the flag in context with the other customizable fields is supporting violence, then that user can still get in trouble. The difference with the swastika is that thanks to Nazi Germany, that symbol is near-universally coupled with violence in the public awareness, hence Max deciding he doesn't want those specifically in flags because of that awareness.

[Bari]

Moderators, is this true?

Liiiittle bit more complicated than that, as context is important. For instance, the Rising Sun by itself isn't automatically banned, however that doesn't mean a nation with that flag, and a motto about "Ha ha, bombed your grandparents!" or similar is going to be okay. If the flag in context with the other customizable fields is supporting violence, then that user can still get in trouble. The difference with the swastika is that thanks to Nazi Germany, that symbol is near-universally coupled with violence in the public awareness, hence Max deciding he doesn't want those specifically in flags because of that awareness.

So, the Ustase flag (the U with flaming grenade) is acceptable in general?

If affirmative to the first, whether the same nation could, in roleplay, have beseeming laws.

I know that this is not Nazi or neo-Nazi, but I still do not know.

[NERVUN]

Liiiittle bit more complicated than that, as context is important. For instance, the Rising Sun by itself isn't automatically banned, however that doesn't mean a nation with that flag, and a motto about "Ha ha, bombed your grandparents!" or similar is going to be okay. If the flag in context with the other customizable fields is supporting violence, then that user can still get in trouble. The difference with the swastika is that thanks to Nazi Germany, that symbol is near-universally coupled with violence in the public awareness, hence Max deciding he doesn't want those specifically in flags because of that awareness.

So, the Ustase flag (the U with flaming grenade) is acceptable in general?

If affirmative to the first, whether the same nation could, in roleplay, have beseeming laws.

I know that this is not Nazi or neo-Nazi, but I still do not know.

It is a bit hard to rule on a hypothetical, but in general it probably wouldn't get into trouble.

I say probably because there's a lot of unknowns. We tend to let roleplay nations go, but if it becomes apparent that the roleplay is simply a thin covering, a figleaf to promote violence, we will act.

[Bari]

So, the Ustase flag (the U with flaming grenade) is acceptable in general?

If affirmative to the first, whether the same nation could, in roleplay, have beseeming laws.

I know that this is not Nazi or neo-Nazi, but I still do not know.

It is a bit hard to rule on a hypothetical, but in general it probably wouldn't get into trouble.

I say probably because there's a lot of unknowns. We tend to let roleplay nations go, but if it becomes apparent that the roleplay is simply a thin covering, a figleaf to promote violence, we will act.

Alright. Thank you.

[Benian Republic]

As suggested by Scolopendra in this thread, here's a discussion thread about Nazi imagery in NS.

First, I'd like to point out that the flag used by the nation Ustasha does invoke fascism -- the looping design around the U was used in the Croatian coat of arms under the Ustasha regime, so it's obviously not trying to innocently mean "rebel":
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/hr_ndh.html#coa

With that out of the way, how do we know when a nation goes too far? For instance, recently-DOS Aryan Shield Command was obviously much more blatantly Nazi than the parody-esque folks in GGR or the members of NE, but he's not far removed from the people in, say, National Socialist Ministries. Where did he cross the line that they haven't?

Was it the altered Horst-Wessel-Lied that he put on hundreds of WFEs, as he suggested was the reason in his post on the GGR RMB? I hesitate to take his word for it, as he also wrongfully blamed Nathicana of a personal grudge and in the same breath expressed happiness to "get out of this jew infested game once and for all." If the HWL was the final straw, though, why was that forbidden but not posting excerpts and links to Mein Kampf?

I get that it often comes down to a judgment call, but I'm curious what plays into making that decision.

Fascsim is different than nazism

[Euroslavia]

As suggested by Scolopendra in this thread, here's a discussion thread about Nazi imagery in NS.

First, I'd like to point out that the flag used by the nation Ustasha does invoke fascism -- the looping design around the U was used in the Croatian coat of arms under the Ustasha regime, so it's obviously not trying to innocently mean "rebel":
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/hr_ndh.html#coa

With that out of the way, how do we know when a nation goes too far? For instance, recently-DOS Aryan Shield Command was obviously much more blatantly Nazi than the parody-esque folks in GGR or the members of NE, but he's not far removed from the people in, say, National Socialist Ministries. Where did he cross the line that they haven't?

Was it the altered Horst-Wessel-Lied that he put on hundreds of WFEs, as he suggested was the reason in his post on the GGR RMB? I hesitate to take his word for it, as he also wrongfully blamed Nathicana of a personal grudge and in the same breath expressed happiness to "get out of this jew infested game once and for all." If the HWL was the final straw, though, why was that forbidden but not posting excerpts and links to Mein Kampf?

I get that it often comes down to a judgment call, but I'm curious what plays into making that decision.

Fascsim is different than nazism

Let's avoid the fascism /=/ nazism discussion (Just heading off a possible threadjack before it happens).