[Discussion] What's with all the DEAT's?

[Vicious Debaters]

Heyo, NS. I'm here to raise a point for discussion.

So, on my experience on this site I've seen a surprisingly-large number of people who have been DEAT'd and are now on their second nation. I'm not just talking about the rare poster. Like, a ludicrously high number of the movers and shakers in various parts of NS have been DEAT'd in the past. I'm not listing names, but a cursory glance at NS will reveal some of the longest-staying players have run badly afoul of moderation.

I mean, you'd think that veteran players would be more connected to the mods and less likely to be DEAT'd. I mean, doesn't it strike anyone else as funny when a ridiculous number of NS-ers (particularly generalites) are clearly on their second nation, some with a R.I.P <nationname>, Post Count <#>, unjustly deleted for <__> sort of thing in their sig.

I just wanted to ask why this is, if this is a problem, and what exactly is going on. Maybe create some dialogue with the mods.

I think maybe this is a case of mods counting past offenses too harshly? Maybe this is a non-issue, and the DEAT players wanted to leave (why do come back then?) Maybe something else.

Add your questions/concerns/issues. Just don't get me in trouble.

Term clarification: DEAT means "Nation Deleted" which is not DOS, which means "Player is never allowed to use NS again."

[Empire of Narnia]

The mods don't give special treatment to popular posters or people who have a high post count. If a player breaks the rules they get punished.

[Gandoor]

The mods don't give special treatment to popular posters or people who have a high post count. If a player breaks the rules they get punished.

This, basically.

A player who's been playing for a few years and has racked up several thousand posts deserves no special treatment compared to one who's only been here for a few months and has a few hundred posts, as far as moderation and punishment is concerned, imo.

[Vicious Debaters]

This, basically.

A player who's been playing for a few years and has racked up several thousand posts deserves no special treatment compared to one who's only been here for a few months and has a few hundred posts, as far as moderation and punishment is concerned, imo.

I'm not saying they should.

I'm just wondering why they'd do something that would get them punished, I guess. I mean the longer they've been around, the more you think they'd be aware of how the mods work and how to stay away from them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The mods don't give special treatment to popular posters or people who have a high post count. If a player breaks the rules they get punished.

Pretty much. A poster who has been in NS for a number of years and breaks the rules is as subject to the rules of the forum as a new poster who does the same. Both are equally accountable for their actions and deserve punishment. Not special treatment because you've been here a long time or not.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

Well, I think this is an indication that rules are sometimes interpreted more harshly by staff than by members.

I agree that we are unique in that people need to be reminded of proper ways all the time, in most other places longer-term folks are less likely to be regarded as offending indeed.

[Cerillium]

A high post count isn't an indication of experience. Anyone can drive their numbers up by haunting TET or playing in spammy II/P2TM RP.

The problem rests entirely on the person refusing to follow Mod warnings. They don't DEAT a nation on a whim. Usually there's an escalation which begins at "an unofficial warning for...." and culminates over time with "1 Day Ban", "7 Day Ban" etc. Sudden DEATS do happen but usually for extreme actions that fly in the face of reason and not only cross the line but also blow it up. I could be wrong but it seems to me that the majority of Mod generated DEATs come from NSG participants rather than other areas on NS.

Some of us who RP with our nations grow bored. We may have used the nation a long while but sometimes you just need to let it die and start with something new.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I think you just notice the DEATs more when it applies to a longstanding player. If someone gets DEATed after a week, you probably did not have time to get to know them well enough to be bothered by it.

[Dragoria]

People who have been playing longer have also had a longer time to build up a history of "previous offenses" than new players. And if they've been around that long, there's an expectation that at some point they've read up on the rules. So between "we told you last time..." and "you should know better by now", they might not get away with something a newer user could skate by with a "don't do it again" on.

[Totally Not Leningrad Union]

R.I.P <nationname>, Post Count <#>, unjustly deleted for <__>

You take from my sig!

The reason people get DEATed a lot is because over the years they've been here, they get warnings and bans gradually building up over time. It's like a paper I wrote once: rule/law breaking is inevitable eventually.

[The Corparation]

R.I.P <nationname>, Post Count <#>, unjustly deleted for <__>

You take from my sig!

The reason people get DEATed a lot is because over the years they've been here, they get warnings and bans gradually building up over time. It's like a paper I wrote once: rule/law breaking is inevitable eventually.

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

[Totally Not Leningrad Union]

You take from my sig!

The reason people get DEATed a lot is because over the years they've been here, they get warnings and bans gradually building up over time. It's like a paper I wrote once: rule/law breaking is inevitable eventually.

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

[The Blaatschapen]

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

Pretty sure that that's not true.

I know players that have been playing actively since 2004 or earlier without anything on their record.

[The Corparation]

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

Please explain to me why then there are people who have frequented this site almost daily since you were in kindergarten and in all that time have at most 1 or 2 warnings and exactly 0 bans. Rule breaking is not inevitable.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

I've been here since 2010 and had one warning ever. Despite being a Nazi. I don't think they will ever upgrade to ban or DEAT if you only get one warning every four years.

[NERVUN]

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

I was playing for a number of years before Modhood without a warning. I think the most I ever got was an annoyed look from Fris.

[The Blaatschapen]

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

I was playing for a number of years before Modhood without a warning. I think the most I ever got was an annoyed look from Fris.

I've gotten a specific "knock it off" once by Kat, and it was a very light "knock it off" I think. And lots of generic statements in a thread that might have applied to me since I was participating in said thread, but not being singled out.

I once got warned for spamming (recruitment), back in '05 or '06 or so, in North Pacific.

I also had a proposal removed on a puppet.

I also could give various non-mod examples, if it weren't for the fact that we do not discuss other people's account history.

[Reploid Productions]

I've been here four and a half years. My total moderation history can be summed as follows: I have 2 or 3 warnings and one 24hr ban for spam. All racked up in my first year or so active on the forums. I know people who have been here twice as long as me and don't even have that. Rule breaking to the DEAT-worthy levels isn't even close to an inevitable occurrence.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

No, it really isn't. We DO take time elapsed between warnings into consideration. The sort of things that escalate someone toward DEAT isn't simply the total number of offenses on record. What does matter is the type and severity of the offenses, how consistently they occur, and whether earlier punishments succeed in reducing or removing the problem behavior.

[Totally Not Leningrad Union]

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

No, it really isn't. We DO take time elapsed between warnings into consideration. The sort of things that escalate someone toward DEAT isn't simply the total number of offenses on record. What does matter is the type and severity of the offenses, how consistently they occur, and whether earlier punishments succeed in reducing or removing the problem behavior.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

Pretty sure that that's not true.

I know players that have been playing actively since 2004 or earlier without anything on their record.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

I've been here since 2010 and had one warning ever. Despite being a Nazi. I don't think they will ever upgrade to ban or DEAT if you only get one warning every four years.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

Please explain to me why then there are people who have frequented this site almost daily since you were in kindergarten and in all that time have at most 1 or 2 warnings and exactly 0 bans. Rule breaking is not inevitable.

Yes it is. If you constantly play, you will eventually reach a point

I was playing for a number of years before Modhood without a warning. I think the most I ever got was an annoyed look from Fris.

Please keep in mind that this is my IRL theory about crime and I translated it to NS. And inevitability could be anywhere from a week to a million years.

[The Corparation]

Please keep in mind that this is my IRL theory about crime and I translated it to NS. And inevitability could be anywhere from a week to a million years.

You RL "theory" about crime is also incorrect.

[Totally Not Leningrad Union]

Please keep in mind that this is my IRL theory about crime and I translated it to NS. And inevitability could be anywhere from a week to a million years.

You RL "theory" about crime is also incorrect.

It's not about lifetimes, it's as if someone could live forever.

But let's be honest, I'm sure we all have broken a few rules or laws before, whether they be major or minor.

[Corrian]

I had a "You might want to make sure your posts aren't borderline flamebaiting", which wasn't even an official warning, once in the music discussion, and I stopped that after that (I hope)

Another time I used the term "troll" in a lighthearted manner and got told I probably shouldn't (still no official warning), understandably so. Didn't even think about it being wrong because of the lighthearted nature of it but I probably shouldn't have said it either way.

I think that's my entire brief history of run-ins with mods. But eh, I've only been here since like 2011 on the forums.

But I get the feeling it's mostly because I avoid general like the plague, so I rarely am a part of debates that might potentially lead me to saying something I shouldn't. I'm always in RP's or generally calm discussion threads.

But enough of me rambling.

On the topic of the Discussion, I doubt there is rarely any actual "Unjust" DEAT's, and I don't think there's particularly more now than before. Sure, there may be overly major offenses here and there, but overall I haven't seen anything to make me think there's been a bunch of Unjust DEAT's, if any at all.

Half the time I think people who say that a DEAT has been "unjust" is just their response in defense of their friend. Which is fair enough, but that doesn't automatically make it unjust.

[Skrilenia]

The mods don't give special treatment to popular posters or people who have a high post count. If a player breaks the rules they get punished.

That's one thing.

It just bothers me that some of them violated only once, and when you look at the fault they had in particular, some of them are ridiculously unworthy of such unjust deletions.

[The Corparation]

The mods don't give special treatment to popular posters or people who have a high post count. If a player breaks the rules they get punished.

That's one thing.

It just bothers me that some of them violated only once, and when you look at the fault they had in particular, some of them are ridiculously unworthy of such unjust deletions.

Not every rule violation is public or forum side.

[Gigaverse]

I remember sending a telegram to another player, speaking about his IC Dictator in an offensive OOC manner (that was meant for the character, not the player).

I was reported to the Mods, and got my first warning during my first year on NS. And I cannot even reason with them to know what was happening (partly because I didn't even know who handed me the warning).

(Hence the reason I already prepared a second nation as a backup plan for my deletion.)