Modifying the income tax rate calculator

[Doomiedoomiedoom]

What about capitalist nations that don't pay their workers? I went from 100% to 97%

[Itorcya]

I do like the new System. Seems to be more balanced. I'd drop from 50% to 45% .

Can we have a poll to decide to implement this system?

[Beth Gellert]

Current tax rate: 100%
New tax rate: 100%

Hehe, ah well.

Considering that I RP with zero income tax, I suppose I'm beyond caring. It seems to me like basically a decent idea, but perhaps still of proportionally less value the longer one has been around. Do it, don't do it, I'm not fussed!

[Carlazia]

I agree with changing the calculator. It would make the tax rate more realistic. It would also be great if we could add deficits and debt.

[Pontbridge]

Sounds like a neat idea. Could use a lower tax rate as I once nearly drove it near 100% until I made some really aggressive cuts

[Derscon]

How much does tax rate in and of itself affect WA Category? If it doesn't itself, perhaps the category (or specific issues or something) could set limited tax ranges. For instance, if a government is clearly socialist, taxes no matter what cannot drop below, say, 50% until the state is no longer socialist, and the opposite for clearly capitalist states.

Of course, because of how they're determined, that might be unnecessary.

[Beth Gellert]

For instance, if a government is clearly socialist, taxes no matter what cannot drop below, say, 50% until the state is no longer socialist, and the opposite for clearly capitalist states.

I'm not sure if I'd be getting a bit off-topic by saying this, but a socialist state could have 0% income tax without necessarily damaging its socialist credentials. In fact, arguably that's a more socialist approach. Hoxhaist Albania abolished all taxes on its citizens. So certainly I couldn't support such a counter-intuitive revision in the game.

[Dimensional Infinity]

It seems logical to have a simulation run with realistic values and the reduced probability to reach either end puts a neutral nation at 50% rather than 0% because the net change of 0 with half the programs cut would leave them with no taxes but the new system would force them up so that their nation can function. Also, since no nation can truly function at 0% and 100% requires that the government provide everything, it seems like a reasonable adjustment, speaking in terms of realism of course.

[Hamronica]

What, and unconscionably raise my taxes a whole 2% ?(!) Only when you pry that money from the cold, dead hands of every one of my citizens!




Nah, really, though, I like this. I have been looking for an excuse to cut taxes for a while, and having them actually exist again seems like it would present a nice opportunity.

[Derscon]

For instance, if a government is clearly socialist, taxes no matter what cannot drop below, say, 50% until the state is no longer socialist, and the opposite for clearly capitalist states.

I'm not sure if I'd be getting a bit off-topic by saying this, but a socialist state could have 0% income tax without necessarily damaging its socialist credentials. In fact, arguably that's a more socialist approach. Hoxhaist Albania abolished all taxes on its citizens. So certainly I couldn't support such a counter-intuitive revision in the game.

Technically yes, but then we get into the socialist/anarchist debate, and I don't want to do that.

I'm going off the definition of socialist requiring government presence, not voluntary, essentially anarchist communes.

[LINTYLAND]

i object

[Dinner Theatre Actors]

I noted that Communist Winnipeg, a nation that works outside the normal wage/tax system went from 100% to 97%. I noted that Venti Gen Italia, a pure corporate state moved from 0% to 3%.

Would it be posible for two new issues to be added - one on each end of the tax spectrum - to allow obvious No tax or All tax choices for those that want the extreme?

(I put forth this idea for consideration, and made it easier to find for discussion by making it bold red.)

[Beth Gellert]

Technically yes, but then we get into the socialist/anarchist debate, and I don't want to do that.

I'm going off the definition of socialist requiring government presence, not voluntary, essentially anarchist communes.

Okay, I'm going to drop this before derailing further, but I just had to say that you made me snort my morning mug of tea out my nose when I read what appeared to be your implication that Hoxhaist Albania was a voluntary anarchist commune.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but functionally in the game you're talking only about income tax rate, not ownership of capital, which is a totally different matter. Even today, to the best of my knowledge, North Korea levies no income tax, having abolished it in the 'seventies.

[Drakcon]

I think this is a good idea, even though my tax rate would only drop from 100% to 91%

[Woolaroc]

I think this is a really good idea.

[Hopefulkindness]

NOOO don't tweak the tax! my people are doing great!

[Isle of Thamesland]

As a new nation, this would make little difference to The Isle of Thamesland, however, I agree with the logic and believe that it will assist the older nations, and would give a more realistic income tax rate for capitalist governments, which having 100% income tax rate for is quite absurd.

Therefore I would support this proposal.

[Katabrovnia]

My tax rate goes up from 27% to 28% but i approve the change.

[FinnicusDraco]

My taxrate would decrease 3%
I dont like, it has already been too hard to keep it at 100% and political rights near zero at same time

[Five Gardens]

I think this is a good start. Personally I've always viewed tax rate as the rough amount of income that goes to the government by the end of the year as opposed to an actual income tax rate. Most of the services my nation has can be achieved IRL with a much lower income tax rate than what I'm listed as having. Canada for example has (almost) free healthcare and a fiscally wasteful military (buying old broken subs from Britain=WTF eh?) with a rate in the mid 30% range. When I made universal healthcare free in my nation my tax rate skyrocketed! Considering I have free post-secondary education I agree with 56% right now. Like I said it's a good start.

What I would like to see, however, is the introduction of sales taxes to the formula. This will be a way down the road, but that is how many RL nations pay for their services without taxing income - once again I cite Canada as an example. This will need to be studied thoroughly before implemented, but I just thought I would put the idea in the back of your heads people.

The term "Income Tax" is quite misleading, especially if it actually refers to the "overall tax rate" in terms of a percentage of GDP. Most government taxes in the world can be categorized into one of the following:

1. Consumption Tax (e.g. VAT, Sales Tax, various government "fees", etc.)
2. Import/Export Tax (e.g. tarrifs, subsidies, etc.)
3. Income Tax (typically handled differently for personal vs. corporate income)
4. Property Tax (usually applied to registered tangible property - personal or real estate on a periodic basis)
5. Property Transfer Tax (usually applied to registered tangible property upon change of ownership - in some countries applies to all owned property upon death)

As such, it would be nice if the game actually tracked the different types of taxes and applied updates based on answers to questions. Also, it appears that tax rates are not updated in the most realistic manner. For example, answering yes to universal healthcare for the first time will increase taxes (as it should). The second time around, it shouldn't make a difference, since the population already enjoys universal healthcare. However, it appears that taxes will be increased yet again. There are other similar inconsistencies/paradoxes that do not deal with taxes directly (e.g. you can outlaw guns, but pizza delivery drivers still seem to rob people at gunpoint on a regular basis...)

The new tax rate calculation is much more realistic. While tax rates of 100% and 0% can theoretically exist, they should not be so easy to attain. Although unlikely, the extreme rates are perhaps possible in some weird situations. At 100% tax, everything in the country is provided by the government at no charge since no one has any money to spend, and at a rate of 0%, the government would have to charge a fee for all goods and services provided, including policing, and many services (such as military, most infrastructure, etc.) can't exist because there is no feasible way to charge for those on a per-use fee basis.

[Centropyge]

While I approve of the end result, what I don't like is that every nation in my region of Pleasant Plain will see a notable tax increase. As Emperor of Centropyge, I must protest this result.

[Hakszon]

I like the new system too, though the decline in taxation rates is little for me, it seems better overall in the long run.

[Xarax Saren]

Emperor Xarax Saren strongly supports this new system.

[Kradolio]

A newer, cleaner income tax algorithm is the future of tomorrow! This act has Kradolio's full support!

[Threlizdun]

My tax rate would still be 100%, which would be accurate if currency was still used in Threlizdun, but I have tried it with other nations and it seems quite nice.